Trench Wars... has changed.

[Liquid Blue]

ding ding ding

[Epinephrine]

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank, this is about turning this zone away from the way it was supposed to be played. Don't you understand when you look at the list of players who support/oppose Distension that the older players who have spent so many years on this game are the ones who don't want it to be on all the time? Distension should be its own zone, if that takes away 60-70 people out of Trench Wars that is fine so be it.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it. You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character. Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing. Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general. By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting there was a problem with how much it was hosted, and are taking steps to make sure that there is a better balance in this game for the people who Hate distension and go afk when it is on, and the people who only go unafk while distension is on. Anyways that is why it is so important that we talk about this Distension thing, because while its creators and supporters motives might be pure, they also don't understand what happens when you over host something very popular. Like I read earlier, kids eating chocolate.

I'm agreeing with Wark yet again! He's hit all the right points.

Personally, I don't have any specifically against it, but I think the fact is that if people want to run such a complicated event 24/7, it's a bad idea.

The fact is, distension is an enormously complicated game which turns aways all but the most dedicated players. Sure there are a lot of dedicated players now, but eventually that will die down.

Much more simpler events like ?go warzone (remember when that was all the rage 7-8 years ago?) have came and went even though they were massively, massively popular for months. One of the main reasons of decline of these events was the fact that they were hosted ALL THE TIME. This is the same as automated tourney, ww3, ufc, deathmatch and even zombies which were so overhosted that eventually they died until they returned as niche and infrequently hosted events.

I've always been an advocate of not hosting special events 24/7. Anytime you have a special event, it should be special. Anytime you have a special event that involves rankings, and ?buying of powerups which affect how good your ship is, you should remember that the longer these things run, the less people will play as it's almost impossible for the new person to catch up. Whether this is ACTUALLY true or not, that is the impression new players will get, and thus it is detrimental to the event.

[Imperian]

I'm expanding... B)

I'd say set up another arena for distension so people wouldn't have to wait in queues. ?go distension2 anyone?

Queues are very bad in any game and should be discouraged. They make people frustrated and angry and that makes them temporarily quit what they are doing that is making them so frustrated. Get my meaning?

I'd say before you make distension 24/7, get rid of it altogether, or do some lame BS, make another arena for it and see how it works out.

For me, distension is fun because it is balanced. I can kill a level 40 wb even if i'm level 1. That makes it fair and once you've leveled up it's fun for a while.

I enjoy distension, but i don't think it's the future of TW. For one thing, it takes no skill whatsoever. At least in pub you know what you get it and what the other enemy has, but in distension you just randomly die because some spider got super and you can't do 'nothin about it except get shields... uGH. It takes no skill to be a nerd.

Distension, however, has become more than an event. It's the nature of distension for it to be something more. However, my suggestion is to keep it running only from 4-7 pm on weekdays, and not at all on weekends.

Thing is, the time spent on distension has to be limited.
Now, i enjoy distension very much, but it has to be kept in check, or all you'll have is nerds with level 80 ships running around and killing people without any skill whatsoever.

HOWEVER, if some genius thinks of a way to make it so distension advertises TWD and TWL, (making arena inside of the arena where people can do 4v4 with distension style ships, w/e), or other events, that's great.

For now, my view on distention is to limit it to maybe 3-6 hrs per day and see how that works out - but somehow i have a premonition of distension not turning out so great in the long run :/

EDIT: i like writing essays STFU.

[roxxkatt]

Anyone notice a trend?? Maybe how the people for distension are the ONLY ones who have tried it and given it a chance? Or how about the only people strictly agaisnt it are ones who either haven't played it or refuse to play it.

this

?chat=distblows - its a chat where ignorant ppl go to whine about stuff theyve never tried

and this

[Imperian]

I both support and not support distension.

I will not expand.

Distension IS an event and has a beginning and an end where one side wins and one side loses (or in the event of a stalemate, a tie breaker is played). It's technically a basing event with a flagging event in between. What people seem to love the most is being able to upgrade their ship and see what they can accomplish.

So the idea is: Expand the map. The open and expanded map, like elim and tourny are, will be open for entry for people to play soccer, duel it out in their newly customized ship (Customization is one of the best thing a person can look for in any product, btw, which is why the Scion and 94 Honda Civics are one of the two most popular vehicles because of their customization).

Then every now and then, a host can come in and !startbase game if requested OR it can be automated when a certain amount of people enter the game.

Basically, people being able to upgrade their ships is the MAIN thing I think people are in distension for. I know that some people will be concerned of it going stale... i really have no solution for that =p... Distension is just a new way of playing this game. You can combine that with other events in TW to make more ways to play . Imagine Distension elims of players amongst the same ranks. ah?

Anyways, i'm in a hurry so this was written pretty quick.

[Liquid Blue]

don't worry, i'll never push for that. this is typical fear-mongering, qan's never suggested this AFAIK, and it's only been thrown out there with a myriad of other suggestions.

That's good to hear, from the two or three topics I've read about Distension, a number of people are really harping about how it's going to save the zone and should become pub standard, which I think is inherently wrong.

You really can't say that (or agree with wark's assessment) until you've played it enough to become familiar with it. I'm actually suprised you've gone this far without any base knowledge on it to argue from.

I can say and will say whatever I have on my mind about pub- I've played it in particular for far too many hours. I'm not knocking your Distension game chill out, I'm simply saying it doesn't need to become the new pub. It's a new event and people are desperately trying to find new forms of enjoyment out of this game, so they latch onto Distension. I'm sure the game is a blast chief, I just don't think it should be pub 24/7.

Why would you keep it a seperate event like zombies? The two are apples and oranges. It's not something that's played for 30 minutes, and then there's a winner. It's something, that when it goes down, people are left empty, because there's no resolution. Events have a resolution, if they don't they are declared failures (think a deathmatch with 2 ppl running from each other for 20 mins).

If it's detracting enough players where you have 30 people sitting in spec, it's obvious that the other events/arenas are going to suffer- elim, TWL, pub. The zone has a low enough population as it is that it doesn't need to have 30+ players just sitting in spec watching when they could be filling other portions of the zone. I never gave a time limit, but on the flip side I don't see why you can't have a schedule like Vehicle has been suggesting. It doesn't need to be going 24/7, otherwise it will get old, and get old fast.

And before I get any further, let me define what I mean by fast. Subspace came out in 96, 97? This game has been running for 11 or 12 years, so it's been here for awhile. It slowed down around 2001/2002, and has been on the decline ever since. When I say it will get old fast, I mean that I personally think Distension; if it was made the pub standard, would entertain players for a few months, at best. The problem with those few months, is that the players who didn't like Distension, who didn't want it to become the pub main, would find other stuff to do. Be it other videogames, life "outside", college, friends, whatever- they would find something else to take up their time. If Distension burned out after a few months and the zone tried to go back to pub, some of the old players would return, but alot wouldn't. The game is fun to return to every now and then but if you go a year or so without playing it you won't ever really feel the need to go back. There's just so much more to do.

To make sure this doesn't become a block of text, Distension as the pub main could easily speed up the death of TW rather than prevent it. That's what I meant. And yes I believe it will get old fast because it's fresh and exciting, it's not the same old elim or pub that people have wasted hundreds of hours in. But it's going to lose that "new" shine eventually, and that will only happen faster if it's made accessible 24/7. I understand what you're trying to say about the length of time (I guess since I mentioned zombies you think I'm trying to give you guys time limits?) but it's the same story either way. I'm really glad people have found something they are having fun with, something fresh in TW but there are a couple of people in my opinion that are in denial and treating it like it's the second coming for this game. It's simply not going to happen, it's not going to turn the TW population around and bring hundreds of new players to the zone.

[DankNuggets]

I don't feel like arguing about this anymore, I have said what I needed to say.. with this in mind..


?chat=distblows - its a chat for people who hate distension and think it is bad for trenchwars, to get together and figure out ways to make sure that people understand how bad it is for the zone by any means necessary.

please, don't stop now, you're doing such a good job of disproving everything I've said.

Oh, and good idea splitting up the playerbase into factions instead of pushing for solutions. That will save trenchwars.

[kthx]

I don't feel like arguing about this anymore, I have said what I needed to say.. with this in mind..


?chat=distblows - its a chat for people who hate distension and think it is bad for trenchwars, to get together and figure out ways to make sure that people understand how bad it is for the zone by any means necessary.

[DankNuggets]

I made a more in depth response to the whole idea of Distension becoming the pub standard there.

don't worry, i'll never push for that. this is typical fear-mongering, qan's never suggested this AFAIK, and it's only been thrown out there with a myriad of other suggestions.

Sure pub needs some changes, but I don't think Distension is the way to go. Just keep it as a separate event like zombies or move it to a new zone. Wark is again right about how if it's 24/7 the shit will get mad old, really fast. I don't even know why people are arguing against that, it's common sense and has been proven repeatedly in multiple other games.

But yea, TW is that cantankerous old dude that refuses to die even though he's on life support and pees himself all the time.

You really can't say that (or agree with wark's assessment) until you've played it enough to become familiar with it. I'm actually suprised you've gone this far without any base knowledge on it to argue from.

Why would you keep it a seperate event like zombies? The two are apples and oranges. It's not something that's played for 30 minutes, and then there's a winner. It's something, that when it goes down, people are left empty, because there's no resolution. Events have a resolution, if they don't they are declared failures (think a deathmatch with 2 ppl running from each other for 20 mins).

Wark has no way to predict how this game will fair if played 24/7, when it was tried over the first weekend, it probably added to it's popularity. Of course it will plateau, who's suggested it won't?

and once again, how can you say it will get boring if you haven't played it??????????????????? and neither has wark.......... you guys are becoming experts on distension really fast. I'm not saying it will always be a full arena, but there's never a constantly full arena... so that's not really a point of contention. However, distension has shown it's ability to sustain a large playerbase so far.

Also, since you've never played it, you probably don't understand that it's NOT fun to play 30 mins at a time, once or twice a week. It's fun to play for long periods of time, and often. If it's only 2x a week or something like that, it will die out MUCH FASTER THAN IT WOULD AT 24/7. You don't level fast enough to feel rewarded getting one rank every month (which is how it would be if it was hosted 20 hrs or less a week). We are working up ideas to prolong the interest in the game, and I feel that we'll be more successful than any other section of the game at keeping it fresh and interesting.

so please, if you're going to pick up wark's agenda, do something he won't: RESEARCH

[DankNuggets]

just skip to the solutions in red for short version

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank,...

It might not be about me personally, but it is about people playing TWL instead of distension. If you want me to believe that TWL is the end-all be-all of trenchwars, you're going to have to get PrittK to say it himself. It may be one of the reasons the zone has survived, but that doesn't mean it will keep it running forever. And appearently, you're quite happy with the zone dying out.

To answer your question about that list of players: yes, I do understand that it's a list of older players who no longer play the game remotely as often as your average distension-goer. You show me a list of players who actually play this game often and oppose it, and I'll show you a bigger list of players who play often and are for it. Fuck, I could just screen shot from distension at any random period in the day, even when it's not on.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it.

No, I don't know that, and you don't either, so quit it. Permanent hold??? ROFL, LMAO. That permanent hold is why you complain ENDLESSLY about the lack of competition. TWL/TWD is far from as engrossing as distension.
You got me, I can't prove that an arena that's been public for a month will last forever. You want me to try to prove god exists again too? Go ahead and try to disprove it, you're just spewing BS with that sentence.

You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character.

You're damn right. I also don't give a shit about any part of this zone that I stand ZERO chance of being involved with. go figure. Hell, I even tried to get interested in the idea, even pushed for an AML to get more ppl involved. You fucking didn't like that either. TWL of six years ago and nothing else will please kthx. Maybe the reason this zone has gone to shit the last few years is that it caters to only the elite, and does little to maitain the interests of the rest.

I'm completely unfamiliar with maple story, as you seem to be with distension. It's not a RPG, sorry for the confusion. It's no more a "role playing game" than trench wars is in general: you play the role of a pilot, killing other pilots. I guess it's your own short-sightedness that keeps you from realizing there are other rewarding aspects of distension besides being the highest ranked ship on your team.

Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing.

Games are made to be enjoyed by the people playing them. They can enjoy different aspects, this isn't solitaire or minesweeper with only one purpose to it. People enjoy many different aspects of trenchwars, too bad you only seem to enjoy one. When players started playing trenchwars, and why they play now aren't the same reasons, sorry. It's your misconception that everyone wants to make the jump from pubber to pro TWL player that keeps you from ever making a good argument. I've never had that expectation, and yet, here I am, playing trenchwars. I guess I'm the fucking exception to your rules.

Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

I guess no one ever told you that in order to survive, one must adapt. It's easy for me to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" because it's true. It's not a prediction, it's an observation. It's easy for you to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW" because that's your argument against EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED INTO, OR SUGGESTED IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. It's a prediction 1, and 2, it's not necessarily true. I've said it before, there are at least two ways to define competition: one being sheer numbers of competiters, the other being the range of skill level involved. At no point does that necessarily imply being better or worse than previous TWL players, it's completely a relative term. If there are less players in TWL, it would be reasonable to assume only the people who are already good stay (already like this). If only the good people stay, then isn't that increasing the overall skill level of TWL in your opinion? Either way, people have been quitting, and as you say the competition is going downhill. Have you considered this is a good way to seperate the people who will continue to play TWL from the people who are only doing it because there's nothing better to do (ie not competitie)?

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general.

Distension dying down is in the BEST interest of EVERYONE. No one likes to wait 30 mins to play it, and no one likes it hogging all the players. What's your point here? This is actually what we want <_<. You think it will eventually not be fun... i wonder if this stems from you already thinking it's not fun. Do you think TWL is fun? Do you think elim is fun? What about pub? That's a catch-22: if you say yes, then you admit distension could continue to be fun, just like all these 24/7 arenas. If you say no, then you're also agreeing that even if it's not fun, it will continue to have people playing it. The only way it will die completely, is if distension 2.0 rolls out, and everyone moves on to that.

This is what makes me think that you don't understand distension AT ALL. Because you think that such a popular event will move into obscurity... like all the other arenas? If people are complaining in two years that distension is growing stale, how is that ANY DIFFERENT than the people comlaining that ALMOST EVERY OTHER ARENA is also growing stale? ? ? ? Once again, I'm questioning your understanding of the game in general.

By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting ...

By cutting any time away from distension, you're alienating those people. When will you learn that when distension ends, people don't immediately go play TWD or events to fill that void. They're not the same, and not as interesting to the players as distension. If they were, then they would be playing the instead. Don't you understand economics? If you artifically restrict the supply of a product that's in high demand, you INCREASE THE DEMAND FOR THE PRODUCT, while also increasing it's worth. You're shooting yourself in the foot with this type of solution; it will most likely increase support for distension, doing the opposite of what you hope to achieve. Staff doesn't need to restrict the time because you consider distension a problem. The thing is, it's not an event... and it doesn't need to be hosted. It doesn't a set beginning and endpoint that can be reached in one host, which every other event has. It's no more an event than elim, which is actually closer to being an event as it has a beginning and an end.

To achieve the balance you speak of, you need to meet try to meet the goals of both parties. You simply aren't doing that. Begin by saying what each side really wants-- not distension simply being up or down. Half right in that pro-distension people want to see distension up and running. Half wrong in that anti-distension people just want to see it down. In reality, they want to play other arenas. To get to this solution, where pro-d can play distension, and anti-d can play their arenas, you need to rethink your approach. Instead of making it one or the other, and splitting time, you need to think of a way to make both coexist.

1) I suggest allowing distension to run 24/7 with the improved queue, so that the arena only has 40-50 ppl in it at a time. That alone will free upwards of 20+ people for dds and purepub. Next, be patient. We all know that the appeal will wane some, though not to the extent where it dies completely. Once it's down to only 40 or less ppl wanting to play at a time, then you've acheived the balance where people who want to play can, and people who don't want to play can still have others to play with.

2) I'm less thrilled with this one. Allow it to run 24/7, but put a cap on how many hours a person can log in one day. This way, people don't have to schedule there lives around the game, and can't put any more time in than anyone else. That's friggin fair in anybody's book. That way, people who only want to play distension (and there are a few) can. People who want to play distension, but are limited by time can. People who want to DD, and play elim, but also want to play distension, can now manage their time. They'll be able to DD AND play distension. This solution really helps out those that have limited windows in which to play.

[Liquid Blue]

Maybe you haters would enjoy it if you gave it a chance, but then again you don't want to enjoy it, you want to go play TWL and have 50 ppl sit in spec watching you validate yourselves.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpost.php?p=672616&postcount=23

I made a more in depth response to the whole idea of Distension becoming the pub standard there.

Now before you guys keep flipping a shit because I don't want to play Distension, you need to understand something. I don't care if it's in the zone, I just don't think it should be the pub standard.

I'll repeat that, for clarity sake.

I don't think Distension should be the pub standard for TW.

TW pub should be simple, intuitive and very easy to pick up, right off the bat. This game does not have graphics, innovation or an engrossing story going for it, so it needs to promote it's strengths- it's simplicity and the community.

Get people's competitive spirits up and have some great basing games, maybe a few different bases to fight in, ramp up the squad rivalries, have some contests- just keep the basic gameplay really simple and easy to understand from the get go. You literally need to be able to explain this game in 5 sentences or less, basically just give them the keys to blow shit up and shove them on a team and towards a base.

TW is one of the zones that has lasted the longest, but anyone who disagrees that Subspace has been dying for at least the past 6 years either hasn't played long enough or is in denial. Player decline is finally seriously starting to hit TW (I remember other zones having 25-50 players max while DSB and TW had like 500 at almost any given time in like 2001) and people are running themselves ragged trying to find a scape goat. The game is old, and it's boring. Let's not beat around the bush. What keeps it entertaining is the community (squad chats alone have saved this player base more times than anyone can probably count) and the simplicity of the game.

Sure pub needs some changes, but I don't think Distension is the way to go. Just keep it as a separate event like zombies or move it to a new zone. Wark is again right about how if it's 24/7 the shit will get mad old, really fast. I don't even know why people are arguing against that, it's common sense and has been proven repeatedly in multiple other games.

But yea, TW is that cantankerous old dude that refuses to die even though he's on life support and pees himself all the time.

[kthx]

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank, this is about turning this zone away from the way it was supposed to be played. Don't you understand when you look at the list of players who support/oppose Distension that the older players who have spent so many years on this game are the ones who don't want it to be on all the time? Distension should be its own zone, if that takes away 60-70 people out of Trench Wars that is fine so be it.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it. You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character. Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing. Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general. By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting there was a problem with how much it was hosted, and are taking steps to make sure that there is a better balance in this game for the people who Hate distension and go afk when it is on, and the people who only go unafk while distension is on. Anyways that is why it is so important that we talk about this Distension thing, because while its creators and supporters motives might be pure, they also don't understand what happens when you over host something very popular. Like I read earlier, kids eating chocolate.

[DankNuggets]

ITT we have several people for and against distension (note that being for distension isn't necessarily for 24/7 playing, and being agianst is thinking it should be on as little as possible)


For: myself, cheese, dako, paradise, vehicle, dugwyler

Against: Epinephrine, LB, Kthx

sorry if i missed anybody. Anyone notice a trend?? Maybe how the people for distension are the ONLY ones who have tried it and given it a chance? Or how about the only people strictly agaisnt it are ones who either haven't played it or refuse to play it. Or, maybe they spent 10 minutes on it one day, just to say they tried it so they can bitch about it.

Maybe you haters would enjoy it if you gave it a chance, but then again you don't want to enjoy it, you want to go play TWL and have 50 ppl sit in spec watching you validate yourselves.

Really, many people have come to the conclusion that they will never play TWL because of skill, lag, or determination. They play TWD to stick around with squadmates, and to have something to do besides the drone of pub; but they don't want to play TWL, or they know they'll never play TWL. So please give it a rest with the "TWL is the end-all, be-all of TW". Yeah, it's the most prestegious part, but like someon's already said, it caters to only the top few in the zone.

Distension is open for everyone, and that's one of the reasons it's caught on so well. You don't have to be the best, which pisses off the people who think that life is only about winning TWLs. There complaints about "nerds with no life, playing all the time" echos this sentiment. I personally don't care if i'm ever anywhere near the top ranked people, it's about enjoying the game, not validating myself. That's why I played TWD, not to win TWL (fuck, I know my squad would never accept an invite anyway), but to have fun playing the game.


If you asked kthx/epi/LB a month ago if they gave a shit about wether or not I'm playing dds or events, they would have laughed. Now the same people are oh-so concerned that people like me aren't playing those events anymore. Thanks for the concern, but I think I can choose which arena/event give me the most joy on my own.

[Vehicle]

The real thing though is that TW is just old...

The newbies can come and learn the game on pub. The guys bored with pub can go play distension for an enhanced, "like-you're-on-acid", affect. The guys who aren't interested with Distension can go where ever else the fuck they want. Everyone else can go keel over and die (quit playing the game).

These two are true.

Trench Wars has been dying for like 4 years now? I guess it depends on what prophecy you believe. Distension didn't do it.

Now I understand that currently you log on and no one is in elim or duel so you get sand in your vagina (since it seems to be mostly duelers bitching), that's fair. In fact, it kind of reminds me of what happened to baseelim ... 2 years ago?

But consider that things in TW are always hugely popular in the beginning and eventually the fanfare subsides. While I think you guys have some valid arguments (mostly being: but now I can't do anything else), I also think this is temporary.

This is a user-supported spaceship game and because of that I think we as staff are indebted to the users. By this I mean that we should provide what the people online want. And it's clear that the majority has spoken and Distension is a commodity in high demand. With that being said, though, I do think a compromise can be reached and I think if you guys took a moment to look at how distension is being handled you'd realize concessions have already been made. (ie: it's not running all the time, setting it up so you don't have to wait in the arena when on line)

All in all, you have reason to complain but this isn't an all or nothing situation.