To the Distension haters -- we may have something in common.

[gdugwyler]

I've been talking with Wark (founder of the anti-Distension chat) and found we have more in common as far as our goals are concerned than either of us at first thought. He asked me to post some of my positions, and I've also included how I'd like to tackle some of the issues. Please at least skim it a bit -- especially the last paragraph -- because haters, we need your help.

• I don't want it to "become" TW. TW is so much more than one game, and Distension is by no means the end-all-be-all. In my opinion, neither is TWD; however, I think both may be crucial in continuing the survival of the zone. Regardless of whether or not you agree with that statement, however, it seems as though Distension's here to stay. With that in mind, Dist needs to run in a way that allows other aspects of the zone to continue to flourish, and ideally, to encourage people to look at other aspects of TW. This is a large concern of a number of people right now, and by no means a trivial one. I plan to do all that I can to prevent this zone from being dominated by any one thing, Distension of course included in that. If it means placing restrictions on player time, or reducing the RP received for players who have been playing quite a while that day, that may come. If it means allowing people who haven't played much to jump in easily so that they don't feel the need to wait in spec for an hour, meanwhile making it hard to start a league match or run a base game, I'll find a way to implement slot reservation. If it means limiting the hours -- though I think that's the wrong direction, as it makes the game more of a special event, desired all the more, and seen as a commodity for which everyone must wait and play every possible second they can, ignoring everything else in the zone -- that will come as well. Things aren't set the way they are. They'll continue to develop until we have a game that can co-exist with the zone without consuming many of the things that have made and continue to make it great. Suggestions to this end (aside from killing the game entirely or moving it to another zone, neither of which are on the table) are welcome.
• I don't want it to take over pub. Pub is the heart of TW, and it needs to remain. We need to work on making pub more engaging for players, rather than replacing it with a game that's far too complex for jump-in-and-play gaming.
• I want it to be able to work with events. A lot of ERs are saying that it's becoming difficult to host events during Distension -- and Distension's hosted quite a lot, especially during peak hours. One argument is that many people prefer Distension, but the other is that events are part of what the game is. Again, I think if the uptime of Distension were actually increased, but restrictions were placed that keep players from going at it for massive blocks of time, we'd see people utilizing other aspects of the zone, and then going back to Dist (because with large uptime they could go back any time they want, just like any other mainstay of the zone) when it's easier to get a slot. We need to begin to transition Distension to part of the zone rather than a special (if regular) treat, and then implement some time restrictions that encourage players to engage in other things in the zone while their restrictions go down a bit or until it's easier to get a slot. The longer Dist goes on, the more people will play, and the more difficult it'll become to get a slot at any given time. We'll need to put some kind of restriction on, anyhow, so that players won't feel the need to play 10 hours in a day (feeling like they're cheating themselves out of RP if they don't), and so at the same time, if there's an interesting event being hosted, or their squad needs to DD, they can leave. I may even include an option that allows them to take a bonus mid-way through a round if they give up their slot, letting people leave mid-round and not feel as though they're giving up massive amounts of RP. This would allow more flexibility in going to other arenas, and not feeling "locked" to the Dist arena.
• I'm willing to listen to just about anything. While I spent more than a year developing this thing, I'm not against changing it. One of the reasons I haven't been working more on it is that (while spending nearly all of my spare time on it) I'm quite busy in other realms. But I'm still thinking about how to make it work with the zone rather than against it. I don't think we need to become WoW to survive, and I don't think Distension should cater to mindless grinding. It's meant to be a game players can enjoy; if it becomes obsessive to the point where the joy is being killed, my idea is failing.

Finally -- and this may seem crazy -- but for those of you who hate what Distension is doing to the zone, please try playing it a bit. It's your critical eye that's most needed. We need to figure out how we can change the game so that it doesn't do that. Distension lovers aren't likely to suggest changes that will have an impact on their play; the haters will probably do so willingly. The reason why I ask this is that a lot of the suggestions I've seen from people who dislike Distension are generally unsophisicated and uninformed about the game mechanics -- and for that reason, generally amount to complaint rather than useful criticism. Please take a close look at it if you really don't like it, and try to figure out how we can make this work. I want TW to survive as much as you do. I know as well as you do that nothing's worth the zone going down in flames.

[HateTheFake]

Ive played distension and even wrote a few posts in distension beta thread. The biggest problems I have with distension are:

1- Squads arent as willing to twd when distensions on
2- Events dont get hosted as much or well when distensions on
3- DISTENSION FUCKS MY DDS UP, Every day the past 3 days we have been in dds when distension causes the zone to recycle. If im gonna waste 40 mins on 2 rounds then play the third for it to voided. Might as well discontinue twd when distensions running. Because theres no point in playing if the outcome = you wasting your time.

Some ideas
1- Make pms green in distension, a big thing im hearing is that most people cant see the pm in distension. Because of its light blue color. If the reason for the blue is because of bot spam, can u make it so the bot produces a blue pm and all other pms are green? (the green pms will help advert events to players as well as twd challenges)
2- Dont run distension 8 hours and have it just randomly recycle the zone, either fix it from recycling or dedicate a time in EST. everday where it can be recycled, say 3pm or something.
3- Dont run distension from 5p-9p mon-fri, maybe 8a-430pm or something
4-Allow a 1 hour on, 1 hour off combo. So every hour of play makes u take an hour break.

Thats about all i can think of atm

[DankNuggets]

A lot of good suggestions.

I think the two most significant suggestions are

1- Implement a cap on usage per day.

2- Implement a reward system for leaving the game/queue that isn't abusable.


I think those two ideas will both free up space for people who want to play, and at the same time free up players who are needed elsewhere in the zone.

If it means limiting the hours -- though I think that's the wrong direction, as it makes the game more of a special event, desired all the more, and seen as a commodity for which everyone must wait and play every possible second they can, ignoring everything else in the zone -- that will come as well.

This is especially important, I agree completely. This is one of those things that people outside of distension have a hard time believing, but I fully think that further restricting the hours will only make the problems worse.

3- Dont run distension from 5p-9p mon-fri, maybe 8a-430pm or something

That's a horrible idea man. It completely removes anyone who works and lives on the east coast.

[HateTheFake]

it would keep the most active part of the time zone free to host events and twd.

[DankNuggets]

it would keep the most active part of the time zone free to host events and twd.

this is true. however, there's another part to this.

Ideally, both distension AND twd would coexist and be able to run at the same time. If distension is on at the peak times, the times when most people are online, it would make sense that there are more people NOT playing distension available to play events and TWD. If you host distension at a time when there's not a lot of people on, then there's even less people NOT playing distension to play events and TWD.

I guess there's always at least two ways to look at things.

[dako]

Hey Hate the Fake, newsflash

Distension is the most active part of the zone. If it wasnt, it wouldnt get double the amount of people that the weekend events do on a regular basis.

[2kill]

3- DISTENSION FUCKS MY DDS UP, Every day the past 3 days we have been in dds when distension causes the zone to recycle. If im gonna waste 40 mins on 2 rounds then play the third for it to voided. Might as well discontinue twd when distensions running. Because theres no point in playing if the outcome = you wasting your time.

2- Dont run distension 8 hours and have it just randomly recycle the zone, either fix it from recycling or dedicate a time in EST. everday where it can be recycled, say 3pm or something.
3- Dont run distension from 5p-9p mon-fri, maybe 8a-430pm or something
4-Allow a 1 hour on, 1 hour off combo. So every hour of play makes u take an hour break.

hey hate haven't talked to you in awhile lol

okay when the biller server was having problems during beta... people blamed distension. so all distension testing stopped and the zone lagged and the server recycled anyway... I think that proves distension does not cause server recycles... so don't blame the lag or server recycles on distension cause thats not what it is.

point three: that time frame is okay for me... since I work either from 7:30-1 or 1-6:30 but for most people working 9-5 or going to school that would mean they wouldn't get to play. (assuming your in EST)

point four: I try not to play a game longer then one hour at a time anyway lol but one hour could annoy people that were getting in the game.

2kill

[Stabwound]

I don't want it to take over pub. Pub is the heart of TW, and it needs to remain. We need to work on making pub more engaging for players, rather than replacing it with a game that's far too complex for jump-in-and-play gaming.

Alright, fair enough. It's your game, so you have the final call. I'm glad you agree that something needs to be done about the pubs, though, and that was my main point in that other thread. They've become very stale, and they could use some help badly.

I want it to be able to work with events. A lot of ERs are saying that it's becoming difficult to host events during Distension -- and Distension's hosted quite a lot, especially during peak hours. One argument is that many people prefer Distension, but the other is that events are part of what the game is. Again, I think if the uptime of Distension were actually increased, but restrictions were placed that keep players from going at it for massive blocks of time, we'd see people utilizing other aspects of the zone, and then going back to Dist (because with large uptime they could go back any time they want, just like any other mainstay of the zone) when it's easier to get a slot. We need to begin to transition Distension to part of the zone rather than a special (if regular) treat, and then implement some time restrictions that encourage players to engage in other things in the zone while their restrictions go down a bit or until it's easier to get a slot. The longer Dist goes on, the more people will play, and the more difficult it'll become to get a slot at any given time. We'll need to put some kind of restriction on, anyhow, so that players won't feel the need to play 10 hours in a day (feeling like they're cheating themselves out of RP if they don't), and so at the same time, if there's an interesting event being hosted, or their squad needs to DD, they can leave. I may even include an option that allows them to take a bonus mid-way through a round if they give up their slot, letting people leave mid-round and not feel as though they're giving up massive amounts of RP. This would allow more flexibility in going to other arenas, and not feeling "locked" to the Dist arena.

Yesssss, this is a great post. The fact that Distension is only allowed to be played at certain times of the day is the biggest reason for it killing off other hosted events and such. Having it off and on during the day is a horrible way to run it, because as you said, once the game comes on, people don't want to leave because they know they'll only have a short timespan in which they can play. I know that I've personally skipped out on BD games, because I knew that Distension only had an hour left of hosting, and my team was on a nice winning streak. If I had the opportunity to play whenever I wanted, it wouldn't care less about playing something else. I think your idea here is a very good one. Have the game running 24/7, but implementing time restrictions, say, 4-6 hours over a 24 hour period, would be really cool. Not only would it fix the previously mentioned issues, but it would also let people with schedules that conflict with the current Distension schedules to play the game for a while, too. However, in the case that the game was going to be run 24/7, I think there would need to be some major work done on keeping the teams balanced. It would also probably call for having a second Distension arena open.

At any rate, I think this is probably the best idea for the game yet. (Although I still think it would be best to be in pubs :P )

[HateTheFake]

hey hate haven't talked to you in awhile lol

okay when the biller server was having problems during beta... people blamed distension. so all distension testing stopped and the zone lagged and the server recycled anyway... I think that proves distension does not cause server recycles... so don't blame the lag or server recycles on distension cause thats not what it is.
2kill

Distension has been causing the recycles lately (it has to do with sending/receiving too many packets at one time), and to remedy that I've reduced the max number of players that can be in the game at one time, as well as a couple of net settings. Sorry for the problems it's caused.
As for the lag, there's a possibility Distension could have something to do with it, but at this point it's largely speculation. Yes, it's rather network intensive, and running 40 people in Dist is certainly not equal to 40 in Warzone (has nothing to do with the arena itself).

hello,

you were saying?

Last weekend event (go twcountry) had 90 people show up, you were saying dako?

[2kill]

hello,

you were saying?

lol guess this is different then during beta problems cause I know that stopping it then didn't help. because we stopped as I said and we also did stress tests running it for like a day stright to see if it would crash the server and it didn't so whatever I stand corrected

[Stabwound]

hello,

you were saying?

Last weekend event (go twcountry) had 90 people show up, you were saying dako?

They did at least 10 adverts and shut down Distension. What do you expect?

[HateTheFake]

They did at least 10 adverts and shut down Distension. What do you expect?

whens the last time any zombs event had 90?

Plus i think it got 40 people (during distension) we woulda had more but the arena was maxed out

[Dabram]

i didn't read this thread. i never read any of the distension threads. even better, i've never played or even set a foot in the distension arena. but here's a great idea:

why don't you fuck off with distension to another zone, or even better set up your own, and see how it'll go.

tw's main problem is currently how incredibly bad our pubs are (first arena every new player enters and will probably stick around in for the first few weeks, that is if he doesn't quit within 5 minutes, which i would if i'd be starting to play this game right now). Staff should put 80% of their effort into FIXING THIS HUGE PROBLEM, and 10% into leagues and 10% into getting elims running regularly again. right now 99% attention seems to go out to BULLSHIT that we don't need like Distention and every other retarded side-event that has nothing to do with TW.


Fuck.

[kthx]

Lol

[Vehicle]

All very good suggestions from you dug!

HTF: I live in Boston (EST) and I work 9-5 an hour outside of the city on mass transit. I also want to play distension. I realize 8-11 is the zones most active period but it’s that way because that’s when most people are home.

As per your suggestion to help dist cohabitate with the rest of the zone I think you’re exactly right. I suggested this in another thread I think it could be valuable. My idea would be to have full RP bonuses during ‘peak times’ that you would define. The rest of the time the player cap would be smaller along with the RP bonuses. Playing limits aside, this would give players the ability to play distension whenever they wanted and still get some RP, albeit a lot less.

That being said though I don’t think it’s a bad idea to impose some kind of playing limit. When you guys decided to run distension twice a day I expected most players had lives/jobs/school/whatever and wouldn’t show up for both timeslots seeing as they’re so far apart. I was wrong. I think a playing cap of 4 hours a day would be beautiful.

I don’t like the idea of rotating hour on/hour off because, frankly, this zone is fucking boring. No one plays ?go base or baseelim, the only two arenas I play, and playing pub is like listening to Barbra Streisand sing. At this point, especially because my squad doesn’t ever BD (due party to distension), I really only log in to play dist and take cheater calls.

Oh, and I’m all for not running distension at all on weekends. I think distension-free weekends would be beneficial to everyone, aside from maybe players who only play distension. Dist does affect how many squads are TWDing and, especially during TWL, the weekend is prime TWD time. Also, I think high turnout (as in spectators) in certain TWL games adds to the competitive environment and makes for better games/community interaction (even if that interaction is negative: have you ever seen eelam and cripple on spec chat during TWL?).