Distension before TWL?

[Liquid Blue]

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpost.php?p=672616&postcount=23

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpost.php?p=672741&postcount=44

Both made 10 days ago and both are where I'm talking about pubs and how Distension shouldn't become the pub standard

I'm not "switching" to talking about pubs, I started out talking about pubs

then the TWL issue came up and it's been hectic ever since

Even from the beginning I've said I don't care if Distension stays in TW, and how I actually hope it's fun for those that play it. If you still want to believe I'm "secretly attacking Distension", be my guest.

[TagMor]

I've never hated Distension or even understood why 2 or 3 D. players think I want it banned or whatever- I could care less. I want people to focus on pubs, for the love of lancaster, focus on the pubs!!

Oh right, now its all about the pubs!!!.. this shit is getting lame quick <_<
LIquid Blue I think the thing that bugs me the most about you is that you will attack distension in subtle ways, then claim you have nothing against it in an effort to avoid confrontation.
It is pathetic and weak.

[Liquid Blue]

e are. Qan's working on that bot, and personally, I'm more than willing to share ideas and help. Why can't I play distension too? It's not like I'd be able to play more than 2-3 hrs if I had it my way anyhow. You say newbies won't play in an empty pub, but where else are they going to play? If they want to play the game they will. It's not like events, TWL, or anything else doesn't equally detract from pub populations. Also, newsflash, your average pubber playes nothing but pub, ie. no distension.

Once Distension is kink-free, I don't see a problem with you playing Distension. Where have I said before that I'd never want to see Distension being played?

Newbies won't play in an empty pub, and if alot of people are off in a ton of sub-arenas they aren't going to want to stick around. They won't need to sit around when there are 80 billion other games that they can waste time with. I'm glad pubbers stick to playing pubs, but I'd love to see more than pub 0- 40, pub 41-14. 3 or 4 packed pubs at once is a dream, but would be lovely in reality. The more people we can have in pubs while we get new players, the better.

And of course wark is going to say it's for newbies, it's wark. I thought we went through this? He likes to goad people on, and get people in a huff. It's what he does. To him anyone not interested in TWL is a nub and should be treated as such. As I'm sure you can agree, someone who has spent less than 10 minutes in the game is considered a "new player" compared to someone who just spends a majority of their time in Distension.

If someone downloads the game, installs it and enters an empty pub, what do you think they will do? 2 options, a)leave b) hit up one of the other events

Hit up one of the other events, if they're observant enough to work out how to move to arenas. They download and enter Distension, start reading the instructions while looking around at the different gfx set and see higher level ships crush the shit out of them quickly. Learning the different adjustments and skills and leveling might be fun for some, but there will also others who just wanted to blow up people without needing a level 20 spider to stay alive for longer than 3 seconds. With an empty or pretty empty (let's be serious less than 15 in pub and it sucks, especially if they're not in the base) pub as the only other main option, they will just move on. You could say elim's an option but if they're new they probably won't last that long and end up in spec.

I disagree with every new player has come in with their hand being held, I sure didn't and neither did my friends but whatever lets get to the juicy part--

start with the PUBS, not distension. They'll have no idea what distension even is for months. Plus, if you're going to rebute with the "empty pubs" argument, closing distension isn't the key to bringing pub poplulation up. Because even w/o distension, the pubs are pretty dry most of the time.

DING DING DING

yesyesyeysyesys

DING DING DING!!

Yes yes yes!!!!!1

man if I didn't have work soon I'd find my posts in this thread or the others saying the exact same thing, only like 3 pages ago. Ever since I stepped in on this discussion, I've been advocating working on pub first. tremendously. I highly highly think it should be the zones focus right now, especially all the whiners. I've never hated Distension or even understood why 2 or 3 D. players think I want it banned or whatever- I could care less. I want people to focus on pubs, for the love of lancaster, focus on the pubs!!

i gotta go but now that the whole twl thing is over with can we plz plz plz focus on pubs

i'd love you guys for it

[DankNuggets]

Just to note in case anyone forgets, both Wark and HTF have no problem with Distension staying in TW, they just think it shouldn't be hosted as much as it is (which I agree with).

I don't think this was always the case, though it may be now. Anway, that's a twofold statement. I may agree with first part (which incidently i don't) about them wanting distension in TW, but the part about it being hosted less i couldn't disagree with more.

I don't think it deserves to be run 24/7, even once everything gets running smoothly. I can't think of any event that is being run 24/7 besides pub and by doing that you're going to less people in pub, alienating our base already and newbies aren't going to want to play in an empty pub.

Seriously? Try hitting esc+a. 24/7 arenas: pub 0, pub ##, elim, elimbeta, beelim, javs, beelimbeta, twd, twdd, twdd2.., twbd.., twsd.., the list goes much further than pubs. We want to be 1 of like 10 arenas that are open 24/7. Just because it has the potential to be more popular than any of those others for extended periods, doesn't mean it should be limited.

Less people play pubs because they don't want to play pubs. I'm sure you would like to turn the argument around to we should be trying to help pubs, but we are. Qan's working on that bot, and personally, I'm more than willing to share ideas and help. Why can't I play distension too? It's not like I'd be able to play more than 2-3 hrs if I had it my way anyhow. You say newbies won't play in an empty pub, but where else are they going to play? If they want to play the game they will. It's not like events, TWL, or anything else doesn't equally detract from pub populations. Also, newsflash, your average pubber playes nothing but pub, ie. no distension.

It's already been said before that Distension is not newbie-friendly, rather it seems like (to newbies) that whoever sits in Distension longer gets the advantage.

well you also have people (such as wark) saying that distension is for nothing but newbies, so which is it? Not to mention that twd isn't newbie friendly either, nothing outside pub/elim is. Obviously that's where the community comes in to help new comers. How do you think we got distension so full to begin with? It's not all vets, plus it's new to everyone who plays it.

Also, WHOEVER SITS IN DISTENSION LONGER DOES NOT GET THE ADVANTAGE. Keep saying it's not skill based, just because it isn't strictly elimination. I don't see how it's any less skill based than a ?go base game when it comes to winning rounds. A different skill set (w/ restrictions) but it's the same concept and still requires a lot of skill to win. Only support ships get "free" RP, and they get like one kill's worth every 2 mins. NOt exactly a free ride. If anything, aside from the bot commands, which can be accessed any time you need them, the only thing making it not "newbie friendly" IS the skill required to kill higher ranked ships. Did you forget about that aspect all together?

We don't need our new player base thinking that about the zone when they get there. Instead of dividing the public, we need to have full pubs for newbies to play in, and have Distension run every now and then as an attraction they can go to if they want to mix it up a little bit.

what new player base? every "new" player has been introduced to this game with someone holding their hand. If you're worried about turning away future players, start with the PUBS, not distension. They'll have no idea what distension even is for months. Plus, if you're going to rebute with the "empty pubs" argument, closing distension isn't the key to bringing pub poplulation up. Because even w/o distension, the pubs are pretty dry most of the time.

what about people who don't want to play pubs, but want to play distension? I know MOST of the TWL players don't play pub, they play TWD or TWL. So why should we stop playing our game to play pub, but they're allowed to keep playing theirs? Because of the zone mission to force ppl into TWL? it's there for people who want it, and as such so should distension.

Also, where do you think most distension players will go after reaching their 2-3 maximum I want if it's 24/7? They'll go to the pubs or ?go base, which are the closest areans to distension, and also ones that you want to boost population anyway. They might sign on to play distension, then when they can't play it anymore, instead of just logging off right away, i'd bet a good many would move on to the pubs or base for a little while.

P.S.: Is my idea of 24/7 with a 2-3 hrs/day restriction really any different than hosting it for like 2-3 hours a day? Besides that it would be much easier for the players invovled? Remember, these are all ideas based on it running stable, which I don't think will be to far down the line.

[Doc Flabby]

• The fact that they remove a very good bot from the first pub to cater a few levis (again).
• And this thread .

Made me decide to give a time out to continuum.

I will be uninstalling this game and I don't know how soon I will be back. But meanwhile this game will have one player less a few hours a week.

Incidentally I have no idea why the bot got removed...or indeed why it got installed in the first place...i trurly think we need better discussion and consultation before making these changes...that way people won't get pissed off....As far as i could tell yesterday from asking people the RoboGirl and RoboBoy wern't working which is why they were not in game and there was no pure/vote/timed pub. It was unrelated to any decision...but since I don't know who made the decision to put the voting bot in pub this is all speculation.

[Zerzera]

• Distension (adding a subzone to a declining zone -which settings are the strongest and most popular in the game) is plain stupid.
• The fact that they remove a very good bot from the first pub to cater a few levis (again).
• And this thread .

Made me decide to give a time out to continuum.

I will be uninstalling this game and I don't know how soon I will be back. But meanwhile this game will have one player less a few hours a week.

[dads revenge]

Why wasn't there just a poll for this?

[TagMor]

But the #1 thing that "distension" people need to understand is that Distension will NEVER be the core reason to play TW, TWL/TWD/Publics will always be the #1 core values of TW,

sure.. fine.. wtfeva just give us Distension at a reasonable amount and we will never refer to it as the "core reason to play TW"... I dont know what else they could do, maybe limit the amount of people allowed to play?

"Sorry only 25% of the total population is allowed to enjoy Distension. Please try another arena."

.. something like that?

and anyone who wishes to change that because lulzdistension is fun is a moron. And yes there are people who are trying to do this.

lol

Well its like we are playing tugawar,

yeh you are tugging something.

[Liquid Blue]

see what i mean dank

[kthx]

Well, you have a few problems. One, you're dealing with wark. He's a dick, I agree with you on that point, and it can get frustrating to deal with him because he is always right. Two, you're talking with him about something related to TW, which seems to magnify his ego by about 8 million, since he knows he's premium quality shit. Three, he's been right about everything so far.

Trust me, he and I have argued over more shit than either of us can even remember about, but we've both played this zone for years on top of years and I agree with pretty much all he has said about Distension and Politics and how it needs to be handled in regards to newbies and pub, and hosting. You'll probably shrug this off, but he's right. He's already a cocky asshole, but I agree with him, the stuff he's saying makes sense. I'm not dumb enough to disagree just because I don't like the guy, that's just silly.

I think this is the nicest thing anyone has ever said about my online persona.

[Liquid Blue]

the people who refuse to play distension because its an rpg requiring patience, or that it strays minutely from the original settings - what they fear is when distension is tested to it's fullest (which has yet to be) and the results they can predict.

You're a complete idiot. I usually don't start out like this with people I've never talked to on the forums before, but you're a complete and utter moron, and I disagree with 90% of your dribble that you've posted in this topic.

I could waste time and quote you specifically on all the shit that you're flat out wrong on, but I don't want to. I have played rpg's for the past 11 years, and shooter games for at least 8 years and I just wholeheartedly disagree with everything that you type. Everything. It just hurts my head to even try to remember some of the dumb shit you have talked about. Get the fuck out.

Obviously I believe I am right when I post ideas, but I at least try to defend them (instead of saying I'm the most popular hoster, the savior [read: "i built the game, i expanded the game, i bettered the game"], or that you guys are all newbs and that I've been wasting a lot more of my life playing this game than you) by posting arguments with evidence, and responding to your accusations with evidence.

You're a joke. And not a funny, ha-ha kind of joke. You're just the funny, queer type. Vehicle was right, you serve no purpose in "moving TW forward" besides HoN. And if you didn't write those, you would have been banned from the forums anyway.

Well, you have a few problems. One, you're dealing with wark. He's a dick, I agree with you on that point, and it can get frustrating to deal with him. Two, you're talking with him about something related to TW, which seems to magnify his ego by about 8 million, since he thinks he's premium quality shit. Three, he's been right about Distension so far.

Trust me, he and I have argued over more shit than either of us can even remember about, but we've both played this zone for years ontop of years and I agree with pretty much all he has said about Distension and how it needs to be handled in regards to newbies and pub, and hosting. You'll probably shrug this off, but he's right. He's already a cocky asshole, but I agree with him, the stuff he's saying makes sense. I'm not dumb enough to disagree just because I don't like the guy, that's just silly.

I'm advocating for 24/7 (with usage restrictions) for one reason mainly: to allow people to play when they want (like twd) instead of scheduling their lives around it. A second reason is that if it's 24/7, it will have less people in the arena at any given time. This will free up people to do other things as well as put less overall stress on the server.

Just to note in case anyone forgets, both Wark and HTF have no problem with Distension staying in TW, they just think it shouldn't be hosted as much as it is (which I agree with). I don't think it deserves to be run 24/7, even once everything gets running smoothly. I can't think of any event that is being run 24/7 besides pub and by doing that you're going to less people in pub, alienating our base already and newbies aren't going to want to play in an empty pub. It's already been said before that Distension is not newbie-friendly, rather it seems like (to newbies) that whoever sits in Distension longer gets the advantage. We don't need our new player base thinking that about the zone when they get there. Instead of dividing the public, we need to have full pubs for newbies to play in, and have Distension run every now and then as an attraction they can go to if they want to mix it up a little bit.

We need to make steps to bring people back. The owner of these forums can send out a "Happy New Years" email to all people who have joined the forums. I even went into eg, and alot of people were interested in donating to advertising as well. This isnt just a problem affecting tw, its one subspace as a whole has encountered and its one subspace as a whole has to try and fix. So spread the news, get people involved, donate, make a few digg posts. Do whatever it takes to recoup our losses of people and do it soon. To those people who still come on the forums and dont play, try playing again, see if you can remember how to fly that small white or yellow ship again.

I agree, and support this. Advertising on the internet is even easier than before, if some pub testing arenas can start going up that would be great as well. Trying out different ideas in these pub testing arenas and see which stuff works the best. I'll elaborate later, I've already spent like 30 minutes replying to all of these threads.

[HateTheFake]

Ive agreed with wark and lb alot in this thread because what they were saying makes sense The main focus of this thread to start with was talking about how distension recycles the zone and makes it lag and why it shouldnt be hosted before tw. I think most of this thread has been dedicated to us having to prove its causing the recycles because most of the distension fans thought that the zone recycling 8 times in a week was purely tw, which everyone can thus agree on now, isnt.

So if we are all at that point, whats to come of it now? We need to make steps to bring people back. The owner of these forums can send out a "Happy New Years" email to all people who have joined the forums. I even went into eg, and alot of people were interested in donating to advertising as well. This isnt just a problem affecting tw, its one subspace as a whole has encountered and its one subspace as a whole has to try and fix. So spread the news, get people involved, donate, make a few digg posts. Do whatever it takes to recoup our losses of people and do it soon. To those people who still come on the forums and dont play, try playing again, see if you can remember how to fly that small white or yellow ship again.

To sum up, please fix the distensionbot and do tests, before attempting to do 10+ hours of hosting again. Noone likes to be disconnected in the middle of what they're doing.

ps make all pms and adverts green because the blue is fugly

[DankNuggets]

Where to start. Dank no idea what happened to you, im simply posting why i felt it shouldnt be hosted all that long right now. Codeman i have played distension, even had many ships 20-45 range in levels. There are things that can be done to fix distension up some.

Lets look at the facts
Distension causes lag/server recycles, we can all agree with this now. My main deal is that why are we still hosting for a ton of hours if this is still the case?

Look if distension ran smoothly and never once again effected the zone in a negative lag/recycle impact i would be fine with it. If you firmly believe distension to be the saving grace of tw, wouldnt you want it to run flawlessly without causing lag and recycles?

I believe the problem here isnt distension, as it is the player base. We need to advertise get players to come to trenchwars. If we were at 1000 people right now i dont think anyone would be complaining about enough people at events.

Everyone should do their part and help advertise this zone, we got a donation link, to which i know warks donated a nice sum to, as well as the 100 bucks i put in last week. If you see a noobie be nice to them, show them commands. Chill in pubs a few hours a week.

So:
Fix Distension
Donate to Advertising
Spread continuum around to other forums/sites
Be Nice To Noobies

Also: change the pms back to green in distension and maybe more players will go to events. I know when i was there i always missed pms, and adverts

you make a much better post when you put your ideas in it instead of just copying other's.

if you had been posting like this from the start, i'd be agreeing with you.

I agree with your facts. The exception is the first one, because while distension has caused server recycles, it most certainly does not cause them all of the time. If it never failed, we wouldn't know there was a problem.

I agree that the # of recycles seems really high lately, and that should be taken care of. This doesn't mean changing the schedule, it means fixing the code. If the code can't be worked on right away, then it isn't/shouldn't be hosted until the problem's fixed.

When update are put in, they should be tested at first. This doesn't happen as often right now, because Qan's the only one updating the bot (AFAIK) and he isn't exactly on a lot. He doesn't have a lot of time to test the updates, which he's put quite a few on lately. Most are to fix things like the queue, which is causing problems to both sides. He's not always there when it runs, so it takes a knowledgable OP to figure out what causes a crash, when it crashes. They also have to decide if it's distension or TW related, if it has to do with a particular part of bad code, bandwith problems, or if it was a seemingly random occurance. It's not a one-shot deal.

I agree with you that the problem is the playerbase. It's been that way with quite a few things recently: elimbeta, beelim, purepub, just to name a few. We wouldn't need to change elims if we had the poplulation in them, we wouldn't need to tweak pubs constantly if we had 4 full ones. Factioning occured all the time, it's only now with such a finite # of players that it becomes such an evident problem. It's no secret to me that the underlying distrust or dislike of distension is that it's stealing players from other parts of TW. This wouldn't be a problem if we had enough to go around. That being said, splitting the zone up would be the worst possible move if the goal is player retention.

We have some pretty polarizing views on world subjects, but i've considered you a pretty nice guy, and a friend in the game. I'm glad you realized how just quoting wark over and over is not helping TW at all. By adding your own opinions you get people to actually respond to you instead of everyone acting like a jackass. I respect your opinions as long as you include room for me in them.

[HateTheFake]

Where to start. Dank no idea what happened to you, im simply posting why i felt it shouldnt be hosted all that long right now. Codeman i have played distension, even had many ships 20-45 range in levels. There are things that can be done to fix distension up some.

Lets look at the facts
Distension causes lag/server recycles, we can all agree with this now. My main deal is that why are we still hosting for a ton of hours if this is still the case?

Look if distension ran smoothly and never once again effected the zone in a negative lag/recycle impact i would be fine with it. If you firmly believe distension to be the saving grace of tw, wouldnt you want it to run flawlessly without causing lag and recycles?

I believe the problem here isnt distension, as it is the player base. We need to advertise get players to come to trenchwars. If we were at 1000 people right now i dont think anyone would be complaining about enough people at events.

Everyone should do their part and help advertise this zone, we got a donation link, to which i know warks donated a nice sum to, as well as the 100 bucks i put in last week. If you see a noobie be nice to them, show them commands. Chill in pubs a few hours a week.

So:
Fix Distension
Donate to Advertising
Spread continuum around to other forums/sites
Be Nice To Noobies

Also: change the pms back to green in distension and maybe more players will go to events. I know when i was there i always missed pms, and adverts

[Stabwound]

I think even Elmer Fud could have written a more coherent post

Distension is just the WNBA, after a few years it will close down, and then you will just be giant ugly women again.

I just wanna say that even though the both of you annoy the shit out of me, both of those quotes made me looool.

Anyway, I just think it's unfortunate that Distension caused any sort of crashing issues to begin with, because I'm pretty sure not many would be against it at all right now. I don't believe that Distension even caused the lengthy bot/web downtime yesterday, as the crash happened nearly an hour after Distension had ended. Can you see how frustrating it would be from the other side, when no matter what happens, people blame Distension? Distension has pretty much become the Jews of Trench Wars.

However, yeah, I'm pretty sure it did recycle the game server twice last night, and I'm in total agreement toward not hosting it until that is remedied.