Public Committee 2.0

[Liquid Blue]

Poopface would you mind sending a pm to the people you suggested? Maybe give them a brief synopsis of what we're trying to do and you own personal thoughts about how they would be a great benefit to the group

I don't mind doing legwork in regards to pm'ing people, but I think it might be best to see what times we play during, or more to the point who's available to do some surveys during what hours. That way we can try to cover as much of the week/weekend as possible. I'm usually on at night during random times, but again after other people post their availability I can definitely try to do it some mornings if need be.

Saturday sounds ok but past 4pm EST I'll be bartending and won't be around a computer until mid Sunday morning.

[CaptainPoopface]

OK, I have ?messaged the people I listed, plus Maverick X+ (lev) and CrawfishAndBeer (lev). Dl22 is the only one who was online at the time, and he said he was interested.

Caucasian has not logged in in more than 10 days, so he probably won't be around.

I have a list of things that players would like to see addressed, from the surveys DankNuggets and I conducted a few weeks ago. We can go over them in the first meeting.

[TagMor]

so have we got a time for this meeting?

Edit: Also I think before we start addressing issues with pub, we should determine how this committee is going to function. I would like to see a completely open and fair democratic process where all proposals are voted and majority rule. Probably a good idea to have an odd number of members if it's done this way.
Oh and one last thing: I think it would be nice to have TWbeta chat advertised as a "pub improvement chat" in the welcome message so everyone could have an avenue to voice their opinions/suggestions.

[Liquid Blue]

I definitely agree that the chat should be advertised that way in the welcome message, and the sooner the better. Not everyone looks at the welcome message but it will be a nice reminder/opener for our committee

And the sooner we nail down a time the better- if it's after 3/4pm on Saturday then I'll have to get the notes/summary from someone else.

[CaptainPoopface]

Considering people's time constraints, let's try Saturday at 12 P.M. (noon) Eastern (US), which is 4 P.M. GMT, and 2 A.M. locally for TagMor.

I think it would be nice to have TWbeta chat advertised as a "pub improvement chat" in the welcome message so everyone could have an avenue to voice their opinions/suggestions.

We can try an open invitation and see how it goes, but my concern is that it would become a heinous, disorganized mess with too many people. Maturity is important so we can focus on the business at hand (Here is an example of reasonable idea vs. wall of immaturity). A demonstrated interest in the welfare of pub is important so that we can believe people are sincere and somewhat concerned about fairness for all players and playing styles. Experience with the game is important so that players can project what impact changes will have on the game, or why, for example, everyone spawning with 3 Thors, 5 bursts and a rocket is a terrible idea. And finally, we want to make some effort for balance in representation among the player interests. What if 20 lev/LTs show up, compared to just a handful of basers and warbirds, and they vote to give the lev faster L3 bombs and the ship handling characteristics of a jav, while voting down anyone else's ideas?

I think it's critical to remain open to player feedback, but these are all reasons I'd prefer to keep the committee small and manageable. I think it would be better to have an alternate means for all pubbers to relay their input to the committee, aside from actual presence in the chat. There may also be times when we definitely do not want the pub to know the exact specifications of some implementation, such as the particulars of lag limits, racism, or certain possible TK preventive measures.

On the other hand, as LB said, we might have a better chance of finding more dedicated contributors by starting with a large pool to begin with.

Here are some suggestions. Tell me what you think:

* Rather than a simple majority for a vote, assume there are 3 main player factions: levs/LTs, basers, and spawn duelers. Give each faction one vote. A player can only represent one faction per vote, must declare it before the vote, and cannot change it during a vote (ideally, handled by PM to a bot so that it is not public). Each faction's vote is determined by the majority within that faction. So if there are 7 LTs present, 3 basers and 2 spawn duelers,the factions will still be equally represented numerically. The majority of these 3 faction votes will determine the outcome.
* Try to test only one thing at a time. Because of the age of the game and the crankiness of players, there will be some psychological strain among players for every change we make. If multiple things are changed at once, players may decide they object to ALL changes, including current and future changes they might actually like, because too much is being asked of them at once.For example, if lancs are given faster bullets, spiders are given faster rotation speed, and warbirds given more energy drain for afterburn, all at the same time, I suspect a lot of players would shoot down all these ideas together, whereas they might approve some of them if they were tested individually.
* Do not test multiple things at the same time unless they are mutually exclusive (i.e., do not affect each other). This is basic scientific method. For example, if a new map is being tested and it has no holes in it, it would be a bad time to also test small weasel.
* Do not re-test an idea unless a certain amount of time or number of testing cycles has elapsed. How about at least three weeks? This would be to avoid constantly voting for the same tests, and to reduce the strain on players by repeatedly messing with the same thing.


So far, these people have expressed interest: Liquid Blue, Kontrolz(?), TagMor, DankNuggets(?), Dl22, Geio, jord, CaptainPoopface... Of all the messages I sent, only Doc Flabby has responded, saying he's currently too busy to participate. Jeenyuss and Pressure Drop have had some good ideas about pub in the past and I'd like to see them involved.

Anyone else?

[Liquid Blue]

I like the ideas, and the timing for the meeting.

Let me clarify about the large pool- while I would like to have a number of people volunteer so we can have a nice amount of possibilities to choose from, I don't want to see it start out with anywhere over 20 people volunteering. I think that's when it just becomes a clusterfuck to try and slim down the candidates for the committee. When I mentioned it would be better to have more, I simply meant rather than have people come and post complaints or try to derail in here, volunteer to help out if they really feel strongly enough to post.

[TagMor]

Considering people's time constraints, let's try Saturday at 12 P.M. (noon) Eastern (US), which is 4 P.M. GMT, and 2 A.M. locally for TagMor.

I dont see why it cant be a little earlier than that.. Say 1pm GMT would be 9am Eastern U.S, 11pm for Australians and around 4pm for Eastern Europe.

We can try an open invitation and see how it goes, but my concern is that it would become a heinous, disorganized mess with too many people. Maturity is important so we can focus on the business at hand (Here is an example of reasonable idea vs. wall of immaturity). A demonstrated interest in the welfare of pub is important so that we can believe people are sincere and somewhat concerned about fairness for all players and playing styles. Experience with the game is important so that players can project what impact changes will have on the game, or why, for example, everyone spawning with 3 Thors, 5 bursts and a rocket is a terrible idea. And finally, we want to make some effort for balance in representation among the player interests. What if 20 lev/LTs show up, compared to just a handful of basers and warbirds, and they vote to give the lev faster L3 bombs and the ship handling characteristics of a jav, while voting down anyone else's ideas?

I think it's critical to remain open to player feedback, but these are all reasons I'd prefer to keep the committee small and manageable. I think it would be better to have an alternate means for all pubbers to relay their input to the committee, aside from actual presence in the chat.

Who say's this chat has to strictly be for "committee members"?
I am not saying everyone who joins the chat can vote on pub issues. It would just provide a means of offering suggestions, which if appropriate could then be voted by the committee members through another medium, such as these forums.

[Liquid Blue]

I won't be getting home from work before 1am Saturday morning, I really won't be waking up at 9am for a subspace public committee

:fear:

[TagMor]

So you get home at 1am and wont be up until 12pm?

You know what, forget it. Post the log and I'll comment from here.

[Ricko]

id be in for it as i pub daily (mix up basing and spawn dueling, but im mainly a wb) but if not, then id be happy to advise as iv been around 8+ years. Also with regards to the spawn duelers poop picked for the committee - how experienced are people like Nails 3 Jesus 0? i've only seen his name pop up more recently, we need more recognisable names on the duelers list imo.

[Liquid Blue]

So you get home at 1am and wont be up until 12pm?

You know what, forget it. Post the log and I'll comment from here.

I'll be working Friday night from 5pm until 1am, the earliest I'll be waking up is 10am. I don't know why you would prefer 11pm on a saturday night to 2am, you can go see a movie or something with friends or eat out and still make it back home in time for the meeting.

[DankNuggets]

id be in for it as i pub daily (mix up basing and spawn dueling, but im mainly a wb) but if not, then id be happy to advise as iv been around 8+ years. Also with regards to the spawn duelers poop picked for the committee - how experienced are people like Nails 3 Jesus 0? i've only seen his name pop up more recently, we need more recognisable names on the duelers list imo.

i agree you'd probably be a good pick to help represent spawn duelers. don't take Cpt. not mentioning you over them as anything other than him not having your name on a list. A few of those people (if not all of them) were singled out based on their responses to the interviews as well as things like notoriaty and skill. They probably responded in a very courteous and helpful manner, showing interest in the process of changing the pubs. That's why he picked them (i think). I know nails has been pubbing for years (with various aliases- eg, nail me like jesus), though i don't know him that well.

[TagMor]

I'll be working Friday night from 5pm until 1am, the earliest I'll be waking up is 10am. I don't know why you would prefer 11pm on a saturday night to 2am, you can go see a movie or something with friends or eat out and still make it back home in time for the meeting.

thanks for the suggestion, however it is Sunday night in my world.

[CaptainPoopface]

My fault. I tried to pick a time that would jive with LB's (and my own) late night working schedule and thought it would be OK with TagMor because I often see him pubbing at that hour, but I forgot it would be Sunday for him. Next time we can pick a more convenient day and time for everyone. This first meeting will probably be a little rough anyway.

[TagMor]

Raver<420> also wants in