Tier List

[inaphyt]

At top levels of play in a completely open large arena you stumble upon another ship depending on that ship and obviously skill level the danger level increases or decreases.
I'm interested to see what order you would put things.

The list. Which i actually bothered to put a little thought into.

Broken

1. Lancaster:- It has no solid counters, it is not slow like people say, spider does not mean you will automatically beat a lancaster, and neither is a warbird, lancaster in the right hands can deal with any other ship, it has x radar and is the ultimate cloaker killing ship. Can mix up long range with multi and is very dangerous even after huge amounts of afterburner. In the time a warbird has fired 1500 worth of damage a lancaster can fire 3300. It's the most lethal ship in trenchwars. 3rd fastest ship in the game.

2. Warbird:- Hard countered by cloakers unless it spots them but even then they have a rep and a rocket, the cloaker will get you. Has very fast recharge, one hit kills, fast firing bullets, and is the second fastest ship in the game. Can beat anything it can see in the right hands.

3. Spider:- Much more lethal in a base than in the open, it's lack of speed let's it down alot in the open however, most ships have the option of not fighting it by outrunning the slow spider, however at very close range tears up any ship in a second, the pilot has to know how to fight a spider to beat one, it can have antiwarp which is only a problem for terriers and levs really, still more lethal than all bellow.

4. Jav:- It may lack alot and can be destroyed by the terrier, the jav has tricks and enough manouverability to be somewhat useful, it is better at killing cloaks than the terrier i reckon, has a one hit kill and when it has max shrap can kill countless foes just randomly, it also has a rocket to own a warbird that misses.

5. Terrier:- Fastest ship in the game however low gun power and in the open burst tricks aren't too useful against people that know your ship, you may steal a kill with a portal once in a while but you'll be doing more dodging than killing.

6. Cloaker: - 4 out of 8 ships have x radar and i believe there is only one the cloaker has the advantage over and that's the shark, it's slow has the lowest energy, all in all an absolutely terrible ship, get's destroyed in a second by a lancaster, however can kill a very superior warbird handily.

7. Levi: - Has masses of firepower just not enough maneuverability to put it to good use it can use portal and rocket tricks but if the other player knows about this they become very useless, can aim for small rocks to destroy players with huge splash damage, get's owned by cloakers and pretty much everything, sometimes even a shark.

8. Shark: - Because a shark has to risk death just to kill most ships it's very dangerous coupled with no guns at all, only very skilled players can do anything in a shark.

Mediocre.

What do you guys think?

[Mattey]

A skilled WB will dominate all other ships. The recharge rate and speed of bullet is just too much to overcome.

[McVicar]

non of u r top tier

[Viruk]

Warbird only has to hit once where lanc has to hit once soon after firing or twice in quick succession.
Lanc multifire is less effective at long range where the bullet spread means you only have one or two bullets to dodge and can fly between the gaps. Even at medium range in the open it seems relatively easy to dodge (or miss with) a spread that would be deadly in the confines of a base tube or FR. Both ships have similar speed so the lanc should not be able to force a close range battle.
A warbird with good aim should counter a lancaster.

Against less skilled opponents the lancaster is probably the best ship to be in the open with.

A superior warbird expecting cloakers can jink about and fire randomly. In the open there is little chance of being trapped by a spread of slow (or rocketed) multifire unless the weasel is both skillful and lucky enough to get in its path. If the weasel misses or is forced to rep then it is likely to die, having betrayed its position. The weasel can only 'handily' kill the unwary. Neither ship really dominates the other.

[inaphyt]

A skilled WB will dominate all other ships. The recharge rate and speed of bullet is just too much to overcome.

I think your wrong, one missed shot from a warbird and it's dead pretty much, if it strays it's dead, if it comes up close it's also dead, because there are so many top level warbirds and very few lancasters of course there will be alot of bias, i however believe lancaster is still very superior it has answers for every warbird approach and tactic.

If they both fire and miss the lanc still has 900 health left whereas the warbird has 200 if the warbird remains motionless it has to recharge 900 just to survive the shot, if it runs it has 200 afterburner and as the lanc uses the same amount of energy for boosting it has 300 to chase and can still fire. Warbird fires from a distance it dies in one of 2 ways if the lanc sees the warbird stalling slowly backwards it will stop mid rush and fire an unexpected long range shot, if it boosts away the lanc will catch up to it.

The lanc has enough speed to be able to dodge even a top level warbird, and it has angles whereby the warbird cannot hit the lanc but the lanc can still hit the warbird. Also cloaker wrecks warbird Mattey you seem to forget.

[Andy H.K.]

I think your wrong, one missed shot from a warbird and it's dead pretty much, if it strays it's dead, if it comes up close it's also dead, because there are so many top level warbirds and very few lancasters of course there will be alot of bias, i however believe lancaster is still very superior it has answers for every warbird approach and tactic.

If they both fire and miss the lanc still has 900 health left whereas the warbird has 200 if the warbird remains motionless it has to recharge 900 just to survive the shot, if it runs it has 200 afterburner and as the lanc uses the same amount of energy for boosting it has 300 to chase and can still fire. Warbird fires from a distance it dies in one of 2 ways if the lanc sees the warbird stalling slowly backwards it will stop mid rush and fire an unexpected long range shot, if it boosts away the lanc will catch up to it.

The lanc has enough speed to be able to dodge even a top level warbird, and it has angles whereby the warbird cannot hit the lanc but the lanc can still hit the warbird. Also cloaker wrecks warbird Mattey you seem to forget.

Remember you were talking about plays in a large open arena. At such place WB have the advantage simply because it could outrange everyone.

WB would always get to pick where to fight. Even if it missed it could always back off - both lanc and its bullets cannot hope to reach WB fast enough to be much of a threat. A chasing ship would also put itself at risk to WB's counterattack. The flying pattern would be more predictable, and WB's shot, even when fire backward, is still fast enough to be hard to dodge.

In the case where WB charges, lanc would have an advantage as it has one more shot than WB. On the other hand, while lanc have a spread shot, WB do rotate faster.

[inaphyt]

Remember you were talking about plays in a large open arena. At such place WB have the advantage simply because it could outrange everyone.

WB would always get to pick where to fight. Even if it missed it could always back off - both lanc and its bullets cannot hope to reach WB fast enough to be much of a threat. A chasing ship would also put itself at risk to WB's counterattack. The flying pattern would be more predictable, and WB's shot, even when fire backward, is still fast enough to be hard to dodge.

In the case where WB charges, lanc would have an advantage as it has one more shot than WB. On the other hand, while lanc have a spread shot, WB do rotate faster.

I am talking about a large open arena, and i still believe lanc has the advantage both in and out of base over warbird. Warbird can outrange everyone however no top level player will ever be killed by a stray unless they are straying themselves a lanc most probably wont be doing this and will dodge anything at range very easily followed by boosting towards the incoming bullet and then finishing off the fleeing warbird.

In my experience the warbird has 2 choices man up, and hope that you miss one of 2 shots, don't fire and get close. Big mistake you will die against a lanc with aim something of a rarety or fire and keep running away. Both of these outcomes are because of the lancs ability to destroy a warbird at either range. Also your talking as if the lanc player is a complete newb which good player is going to fly predictably into a warbird shot? Lanc can mix things up largely by doing seemingly random things.

Also once a warbird has fired there is a very very small chance it will live. rotation doesn't matter considering you can fly sideways thus any maneuver a warbird can do a lanc can also do.

Also something i must stress the lancaster is not a slow ship, for distance and power it easily is more lethal than a warbird.

The lancs bullets are slower however the lanc IS the projectile lol.

My point really is, Warbird sounds better on paper, but i think with the right pilot a lanc can obliterate anything.

[FarScape]

read

Its depend on the situation...
In flag room, I think spiders are the most effective. Lancasters come second, Warbird third and Jav afterward.
Sharks are capable of killing in a mess, but they will be pretty useless if enemy is smart enough, so even skilled player wont be able to do much against skilled players. Weasel in flag room is pretty much useless, he got nothing to offer there. Even the multi blue shots aren't worth it, better get warbird that recharge faster. And least of all, Levs. Those ships are just stupid in flag room. They might defend few times pretty good but eventually they will team kill the rest of the team (they are more efficient when the enemy is outside the flag room tho) They can be a problem when attacking from outside, but just staying in the middle should solve the problem (unless 2-3 levs attack together <_< )

In the open space its a different story. I agree with mattey here about the warbirds. A skilled warbird should dominate unless cloaks are available :-P
Cloaks as said, are really strong against warbirds and spiders, but against lanc and especially terriers, they are weak.

Spiders in my opinion come after warbird in strength. I, as I consider myself as a good spider, can take without problem most of the warbirds. Smart warbirds may be equal and might even dominate me (wont say how of course :-P).
Spiders tho, are kinda weak against terriers, and a good terrier might take spiders even easier than a good warbird.

Lancaster comes after spider, because they are slower, and their fire power isn't good enough. A lance will shoot once, and than he is kinda easy prey for spiders, even if he hits. Like spiders, its biggest advantage is from close range, which in the open space its kinda hard to get with its slow movement.

Shark isn't weak if you play in the tube. You can also get some kills by rushing and mining people, but its difficult to achieve often and a shark will probably die most of the time trying to do so.

Javs are also weak in open space, where in flag room they can be devastating. Their strongest key is the rocket but a smart player can avoid that too... Just crappy.

Levs are the weakest. A real useless ship in the open space and depends on wall only. If you die by lev in the open space and far from any wall or astroid, it because of stray\spawn\weak skills.

P.S
I think this is why this zone is better than all the others. It might be easy but much more complex and there is great variety here.

[Jones]

no other ship comes even close to a good wb, lancs can deal with some of these suicide rushers because of their no delay when rushing and shoot type thing. as for spiders vs wbs, i have a memory of beating 'blitz' 5-0 in any ship elim finals doing the same technique always while being a wb and he being a spider. no disrespect to the guy but the spider can't even compare to mediocre birds

[inaphyt]

Its depend on the situation...
In flag room, I think spiders are the most effective. Lancasters come second, Warbird third and Jav afterward.
Sharks are capable of killing in a mess, but they will be pretty useless if enemy is smart enough, so even skilled player wont be able to do much against skilled players. Weasel in flag room is pretty much useless, he got nothing to offer there. Even the multi blue shots aren't worth it, better get warbird that recharge faster. And least of all, Levs. Those ships are just stupid in flag room. They might defend few times pretty good but eventually they will team kill the rest of the team (they are more efficient when the enemy is outside the flag room tho) They can be a problem when attacking from outside, but just staying in the middle should solve the problem (unless 2-3 levs attack together <_< )

In the open space its a different story. I agree with mattey here about the warbirds. A skilled warbird should dominate unless cloaks are available :-P
Cloaks as said, are really strong against warbirds and spiders, but against lanc and especially terriers, they are weak.

Spiders in my opinion come after warbird in strength. I, as I consider myself as a good spider, can take without problem most of the warbirds. Smart warbirds may be equal and might even dominate me (wont say how of course :-P).
Spiders tho, are kinda weak against terriers, and a good terrier might take spiders even easier than a good warbird.

Lancaster comes after spider, because they are slower, and their fire power isn't good enough. A lance will shoot once, and than he is kinda easy prey for spiders, even if he hits. Like spiders, its biggest advantage is from close range, which in the open space its kinda hard to get with its slow movement.

Shark isn't weak if you play in the tube. You can also get some kills by rushing and mining people, but its difficult to achieve often and a shark will probably die most of the time trying to do so.

Javs are also weak in open space, where in flag room they can be devastating. Their strongest key is the rocket but a smart player can avoid that too... Just crappy.

Levs are the weakest. A real useless ship in the open space and depends on wall only. If you die by lev in the open space and far from any wall or astroid, it because of stray\spawn\weak skills.

P.S
I think this is why this zone is better than all the others. It might be easy but much more complex and there is great variety here.

A skilled warbird should dominate, but IT DOESN'T i'm telling you man. I don't know where to begin disagreeing with you fars, oh actually i do- Lanc is MUCH faster than Spider what the hell? if your talking about base speed i'm not sure but what i do know is that the spider cannot use the afterburner and a spider has 100 less energy. Because a lanc is much faster than a spider believe me, it can pick off a spider at a distance with multi because spiders definitely have a hard time dodging that and even so most spiders will be polished off in one shot, if a spider fires twice the lanc can take one bullet and also kill the spider the lanc has access to more angles, if the spider fires once and is hit by a lanc bullet it is crippled at 0 health pretty much and then dead. The spider will never ever catch the Lanc so if you want you can just run whenever you make a mistake. No way in hell the spider is better than the lanc. And i consider myself good enough to beat anyone in tw with Lanc : ). Also fars, in open space a terrier in no way dominates a spider, for a start spider can use antiwarp, if the terr uses multi it's a dead man pretty much it's aiming is way harsher than the spider and it can't get close and it can't stray. For a lanc it's all about knowing what a spider or a warbird will try on you and then knowing what to do about it. From there you will win. The end.

[Viruk]

Surely a top level player with good aim will never 'stray'? They will have the experience to predict the path of a ship they know is attacking them and will rarely be surprised by any return shot. (Just how unpredictable can a rush be when you start at long range, need to get close to a moving target and have limited energy to burn?) Their radar shots will rarely be very wide of the mark and they will often hit or force a high-energy dodge on any ship afterburning in their general direction.

The lanc multifire advantage in firing around corners means little unless at close range or if they are firing around cover. Small amounts of cover (like asteroids) will benefit the 1-hit kill warbird far more because they can hide and recharge when damaged but will still have escape routes and long range shots at attackers.

[inaphyt]

Surely a top level player with good aim will never 'stray'? They will have the experience to predict the path of a ship they know is attacking them and will rarely be surprised by any return shot. (Just how unpredictable can a rush be when you start at long range, need to get close to a moving target and have limited energy to burn?) Their radar shots will rarely be very wide of the mark and they will often hit or force a high-energy dodge on any ship afterburning in their general direction.

The lanc multifire advantage in firing around corners means little unless at close range or if they are firing around cover. Small amounts of cover (like asteroids) will benefit the 1-hit kill warbird far more because they can hide and recharge when damaged but will still have escape routes and long range shots at attackers.

Oh sorry viruk, i'm just so pro that a radar shot is a stray to me. After the warbird fires from out of screen the lanc will avoid it and the warbird can't run forever if it does it will die also there's nothing saying that the lanc has to follow you around it could just stay where it is with better radar tools than you. Space yourself correctly and a warbird will have a hard time killing you, either because they've taken a bullet or because you know the warbird angles so well that you fly in the little bit of space between 2 angles. The one time when a warbird is very dangerous is if you miss 2 consecutive shots, the only time it is really safe for a warbird to rush you, so i tend to fire once recharge and never run from the warbird, you make the warbird run and once it does it's dead. : )

[FarScape]

A skilled warbird should dominate, but IT DOESN'T i'm telling you man. I don't know where to begin disagreeing with you fars, oh actually i do- Lanc is MUCH faster than Spider what the hell? if your talking about base speed i'm not sure but what i do know is that the spider cannot use the afterburner and a spider has 100 less energy. Because a lanc is much faster than a spider believe me, it can pick off a spider at a distance with multi because spiders definitely have a hard time dodging that and even so most spiders will be polished off in one shot, if a spider fires twice the lanc can take one bullet and also kill the spider the lanc has access to more angles, if the spider fires once and is hit by a lanc bullet it is crippled at 0 health pretty much and then dead. The spider will never ever catch the Lanc so if you want you can just run whenever you make a mistake. No way in hell the spider is better than the lanc. And i consider myself good enough to beat anyone in tw with Lanc : ). Also fars, in open space a terrier in no way dominates a spider, for a start spider can use antiwarp, if the terr uses multi it's a dead man pretty much it's aiming is way harsher than the spider and it can't get close and it can't stray. For a lanc it's all about knowing what a spider or a warbird will try on you and then knowing what to do about it. From there you will win. The end.

I use to play spider in pub in the open space and never I had problems dealing with lances, not as much as warbirds or spiders and I never met a lance that made my life hard.
Lance is a slow ship, slower than the spider. Usually its easy to dodge the 2 bullets (even 4) from the distance, and if they miss one time, they are pretty much dead for a good spider, but we are getting into strategies talking, and it's ok you think differently. I just stated my opinion about this.

About the terrs. Well, a smart terr doesn't need to port against one single spider in the open space. If the spider is fool enough to try catch the terr from distance and the terr is good enough to dodge and fast attack, then its pretty clear who should win. Again its about strategies and how to approach a different situations in game.

P.S
I am not saying a terrier will own a spider, but it surely can make difficult challenge if the terrier is skilled.

[Viruk]

Space yourself correctly and a warbird will have a hard time killing you, either because they've taken a bullet or because you know the warbird angles

Good point about the angles. I had forgotten this use of multifire. I still suspect you may be a little optimistic about the lanc's superiority at a distance but will have to think on it, maybe test a little.

Lance is a slow ship, slower than the spider.

Are we talking about the same ship as the one in pub here? Last time I tested it in pub the lanc was the equal of the warbird as best I could tell in a short distance and the spider slower. The spider seemed about as fast when afterburning but it has 100 less energy to burn with.

[inaphyt]

I use to play spider in pub in the open space and never I had problems dealing with lances, not as much as warbirds or spiders and I never met a lance that made my life hard.
Lance is a slow ship, slower than the spider. Usually its easy to dodge the 2 bullets (even 4) from the distance, and if they miss one time, they are pretty much dead for a good spider, but we are getting into strategies talking, and it's ok you think differently. I just stated my opinion about this.

About the terrs. Well, a smart terr doesn't need to port against one single spider in the open space. If the spider is fool enough to try catch the terr from distance and the terr is good enough to dodge and fast attack, then its pretty clear who should win. Again its about strategies and how to approach a different situations in game.

P.S
I am not saying a terrier will own a spider, but it surely can make difficult challenge if the terrier is skilled.

I respect your opinion fars, However it's FACT that Lanc is faster than Spider, if you think lanc is slow you just haven't faced anyone worthwhile. Also i believe a spider is very easy to dodge in a lancaster, Spikey recently believed the same as you and i trashed him in pub haahha. Anyways fair enough man. Also i believe Lanc bullets are the same or faster than spider bullets.

Also Lanc uses afterburner alot slower than spider, spiders energy depletes in less than 2 seconds with afterburner. No i'm not saying Lanc is good at long distance, however when you mix things up because a warbird doesn't expect you to be good long range, and then they have to use excess energy to dodge it. Followed by punishing Rush.