the new weasel settings

[Bigwig]

I never had a problem with weasels because they were a non-issue. Now that they are an issue, damn straight i'm going to comment on them. Don't like it? don't read my posts.

[Verthanthi]

They were an issue, because they were not a useful ship.

[Nockm]

Originally posted by sTuPiD-gErBiL
2) make lanc bullets bounce twice

Can you control the number of bounces a bullet has like you can with bombs?

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Nockm
Can you control the number of bounces a bullet has like you can with bombs?

i'd assume so since the "bouncy bullets" event hosted occasionally in ?go tanks seem to bounce forever (like it's old atari counterpart).

[Depili]

Bullets either bounce as many times as they hit the walls before their range runs out, or they don't bounce at all.

[wadi]

Allright, they keep changing the settings, so let me breakdown what they're like right now:

800 energy
Original recharge, turning, speed, afterburner
No Repel
One Rocket
1 Tile Size Ship

Problems:
- You die if anyone of the following things happens: L3 bomb anywhere on the screen, L2 bomb anywhere within a mile of you, red/yellow/blue bullet hitting you. Spider was not made to be a one hit kill ship, but if it's up against a weasel it is.
-No rep, no recharge while cloaked, and a bullet that uses all your energy means that you get brushed by ANYTHING and your ship is now a delicious green snack waiting to happen. Uncloaking to recharge means death since you only have 800 energy, no manueverability and a one use rocket.
- Without a rep the weasel is relegated to Levi hunting duty only. Barely useful for messing with enemy terrs. Lanc now having X-Radar, and a spread shot makes it the ideal weasel hunter.

Conclusions:
-I kinda wonder what went on in upper staff's closed door sessions when they revamped the weasel. It wasn't exactly a "super-ship" before the changes, and lord knows it's now a ridiculously underpowered hunk of junk. I liked to believe that, before the setting's change, every ship has a chance, even a small one, against every other ship in Trench. Terrs can kill Warbirds and lancs if they're sneaky, Javs can do serious damage if they've got some walls for cover, levi has reps and ports to wait out an attack, or surprise an attacker, and the three fighter ship scould hold their own easily. With a rep and a rocket, the weasel could either delay till he could warp away form a terr/jav chasing him, or surprise them with a rocket and get a kill.

Now the cloaker gets 1 kill and he's meat. Please. I don't want the weasel to be as strong as the warbird, or as popular, but at least make it playable? spaceships shouldn't get destroyed by stiff breezes.

[za gophar]

yeah, u must be pretty upset considering how often i see you pubbing.

one other thing.
" I liked to believe that, before the setting's change, every ship has a chance, even a small one, against every other ship in Trench."
do spiders, warbirds, levis, and sharks/lancs without x radar have a chance to kill a cloaked ship? no. ok, as long as that ship has cloak, it is either gonna be way too weak or way too powerful.

the cloaking needs to be removed in exchange for some other strength. yeah, i would love to see it keep it's one tile setting. maybe it could be faster.. a ship thats very evasive. but not cloaking. that ship needs a new defining quality.

[Troll King]

I don't know, Gophar. You could say the same thing about other ships. Do Spiders warbirds, javs, lancs, terrs, and now weasels and levis have any chance to get past a shark mine? Do other ships have a chance against a spider's fire rate? Against the levi's power? The jav's range? If anything, the weasel's new settings have started to force pub freqs to use more teamwork. I've seen improvements in communication and x-radar checking already. If that's the a result of the new settings, then I'm all for it.

[Purple Llama]

Opinion on new changes...

I have been playing this game on and off for a long time. The only 2 ships I have been using for 1.5 years are Shark and Weasel. Before that I was using levi. Before that I was using l337 ships. So, basicly I am entitled to oppinion here.

Weasel was THE solo craft. This was a craft you hop in when you have a team full of morrons. You killed that. You made it exactly in what people describe it to be. While the noob in a weasel was a friesh meat, a pro cloacker could go on for ever.... or if not for ever, then untill it gets blown away by random fire, becomes careless, or simply gets unlucky. My record is around 400-430 bounty.


On the scale from 1 to 10, new modifications to weasel suck ass.

Topics for discussion:

1) maximum energy
2) Energy regeneration, cloack drain
3) Size
4) Repel
5) Spread


1. Reduction in maximum energy is prety sad. I get killed 8/10 times if I am within shockwave range of a bomb. Any bomb. For example we have a standart scenario. Leviterr on top, everybody go to lower part of base. FIRE IN THE FUCKING HALL! The ONLY 3 ships that blew up were THREE FUCKING WEASELS. This is far from cool.

However this is not a sadest part. Sadest part I am killed by shrapnel. I was hit yeasterday by shrapnel 4 times. I got killed FOUR times.

Weasels are geting killed by anything. Weasel can take 2 shots from terr on average (influenced by energy restore). That is a severe reduction from 4 shots.

2. As if max energy reduction was not enough, power reduction has been nerfed as well. And I AM NOT talking about cloack drain. That's a differant story (I can live with that btw). Basicly now weasel cant regenerate enough power to even try to shoot back/escape at/from a dumbass terr. You gota be retarded not to kill a weasel. Now all I do is hit rockets and go for a kill/death or simply warp away. Can't even play with them no more. And guess what. Size reduction doesn't do shit. Which brings me to the next point.

3. AAHAHAHHAHA. WTF is that? ok ok. Fiting through holes was a nice touch. But the only holes to fit through are inside base (unless you wana go explore asteroid field) But, with the combat potential of weasel so fucking low in an anti-x filled base (javs and terr), I came up with this plan of weasel base infiltration that has 2 simple steps:

a. Get in base through the hole.
b. Get blown the fuck away.

WHOOHOOO! Play a weasel! Masochistic fun for you and the whole family!

4) Power of weasel was not in cloack. It was in diversity. NONE of the improvements you made, even improvements to mobility, can make up for the loss of this device. Then again, it may just seam that you improved mobility because I get blown away so much more often.

5) The only person I have seen using spread properly is ME. Why the fuck did you take away feature that CAN'T be abused??! The feature that couldn't be abused even if it was vastly overpowered and lame?


P.S. I havn't played levi in a long time. But all I can say is that new modification are SHIT for obvious reasons. I don't know who thought of removing repel from levis, but whoever it is I woun't make any coments because this message will get deleted. BTW I wouldn't be surprised if you have new aditions to the team (something I don't follow).

P.S.S. Fuck the spelling

[bloodzombie]

I'm glad you started a new thread for this.

[brookus]

Fire in the "hall"?

llater,
Tony

[Material Girl]

Originally posted by Troll King
In other words, if you have 2 sharks mining all 4, a third shark is either a weaker levi or a slower jav.

[Troll King]

The shrap deaths argument is dismissable as shrap can kill anyone, but with the weasel's small size, it was a matter or poor luck to happen 4 times.

I do agree with you on the weasel-terr head to head match-up imbalance. For some reason, people seem to assume that for balance, each ship should be able to counter another. i.e. a cloaker should be able to hunt levis and a terr should be able to hunt cloakers. To a certain extent that happens, but it should not be a determinant factor in deciding on the settings. It is far too easy for terrs to kill cloakers now.

I would also like to dismiss your argument about the size being effective only for the base, on the grounds that that is how all ships should be designed. For base use. Look at the shark. Laying mines anywhere outside the base is pointless as people can fly around them easily. Jav bombs bounce off of asteroids as well as walls, but it offers different levels of planning and execution. If there were a setting change made with the expressed purpose of play outside of base in the spawn zone, then I would have to say it's a bad idea relative to the purpose of the zone.

As for repels, I think weasels should get them back. Right now, sharks are the only ships with repels. As much as I like sharking, that's not a good thing when it comes to balance.

As far as spread is concerned, I can't think of a reason for it's removal. If it's a matter of being considered "lame" like a lanc, I think people are more upset with being killed by a weasel by it's cloaking ability rather than the spread.

[Purple Llama]

ok it looks like I was wrong on several points:

1) Today it seams that spread works. I could swear yesterday spread was gone. I fired spread and only 1 bullet came out.

2) Energy of weasel is at 900 now. It is depressing but I can't remember original value of weasel power. I think it was 1200. However I am prety sure yesterday it was 800. In any case I couldn't understand why bombs could kill me all the time. So I assumed because of max energy reduction.

[wadi]

za, I've been without a TW playable internet connection for like 4 months. In the last week I've been back I've pubbed plenty, ask around. On top of that, I've been here for way too long, since before ?go base, heck, I've probably got more pub hours then you have total usage gophar. Levi is the only exception to the idea I talked about, and personally I don't give a rat's ass if the fat bags get cloaked. That being said, spider's warbrds, and lancs are all faster than a cloaker, so unless the cloaker gets really lucky, they'll never sneak up on that ship in the open partsof the map. If they're in lower base, terrs, javs, and now lancs, all have X, sharks can green it, there shouldn't be anyway for a cloak to surprise a fighter ship. That fighter should know the cloak is there, just not where it is, giving him a chance to evade, or if it's a spider hunt a little bit with red shots.

But let's keep this thread on how much they've gimped my goddamned weasel.

Edit: Weasel Energy is now at 900, and it doesn't cost all your energy to fire. I'd still like to see the energy brought back to 1100+ (original was 1300), or return the rep, but I can almost live with it now.