New pub money system

[Jason]

iphone surgery app... i can see it now. doctors controlling laser scalpel equipped robots via their phones while vacationing on a beach in the bahamas!

[Xog]

That post wasnt directed at u i was just quoting it as a supplement to mine and didnt feel like doing surgery to delete parts of it cuz i was posting from my phone

[Ephemeral]

i believe the blame goes to the fact that devs do things for the zone on their own dime and time as pet projects which im not saying needs to be fixed, it just is. The devs do this with people's entertainment in mind and to express the programmer's own creativity and expand their knowledge and limits of programming. They arent here for everyones beckoned call, although they use and manipulate ideas given and wanted by the public with their own imagination and creativity to express themselves and make something worth their time. Devs implement and program things mostly for themselves first and for the public second. This is just the way things are. Trenchwars isnt a company it is a community and the sooner people realize this the better.

That said, dont expect everything you want. Ive learned to be happy with what i have throughout my life and seeing everyone whine bitch moan and groan over stupid little things makes me sick to my stomach.

I never said that Subspace (or TW) was a company, it is a product. And product development and product cycles have been done for ages. This is the common thread.

Apparently this is rocket science for you! :P
eph

[Arobas+]

Testing on the public arena was a mistake and the dev team apologizes. I was the one trying to keep this project secret but secret doesn't mean to code in our bunker until we release it. Nooo. There was a team of volunteer who were giving ideas/outputs to the dev team. Witness was also behind this project and as you may know, he is sysop and in charge of the pub.

As for myself, I was there to help dexter with ideas but I didn't had the time to help him with the code because at this time, I was on a big project at school until recently. But unfortunately, dexter was going back to school and before, he wanted to test his new creation (the pub system). And you know the rest..

Now what's next?

I'm currently testing, fixing some bugs and adding more features to this bot. Yes I hear you : "why more features, test it first to see if the public will like". I'm adding features to make this bot easier to maintain and to add/remove items. This bot was clearly not ready to be tested with the public and I want to make sure that everything is ready before doing any kind of test with the public. At the same time, the !help and F1 will be revised.

There will be a first beta test with the staff and some players on a private arena. If these tests appears to be good, the test phase will be moved to "?go PubTest" for a few weeks. A new thread will be made to let you post your constructive comments.

Yeah.. I was really optimist but couldn't work on this project until recently. Now I have the time, just sad that Dexter left at the same time.

[kthx]

Yeah Nockm, that is why nobody listens to you an experienced veteran member of this zone who has devoted countless hours into being a member of staff, and playing and running several squads throughout your career.

Cheese the non important owner of a failed sub arena in TW zone, stealer of tilesets and ideas, and interzoneally hated dipshit who for some reason thinks hes a part of our community is right.

[Xog]

1. Assigning blame is different than determining root cause. Determining root cause has value, assigning blame does not. Stop using names.

2. Feature creep is common to all development. Recognize it and recognize when developers are doing it. Every developer wants to add crap just because they think it is cool. What a developer thinks is cool is meaningless. What users think is cool has value.

This isn’t rocket science.
eph

i believe the blame goes to the fact that devs do things for the zone on their own dime and time as pet projects which im not saying needs to be fixed, it just is. The devs do this with people's entertainment in mind and to express the programmer's own creativity and expand their knowledge and limits of programming. They arent here for everyones beckoned call, although they use and manipulate ideas given and wanted by the public with their own imagination and creativity to express themselves and make something worth their time. Devs implement and program things mostly for themselves first and for the public second. This is just the way things are. Trenchwars isnt a company it is a community and the sooner people realize this the better.

That said, dont expect everything you want. Ive learned to be happy with what i have throughout my life and seeing everyone whine bitch moan and groan over stupid little things makes me sick to my stomach.

[Ephemeral]

1. Assigning blame is different than determining root cause. Determining root cause has value, assigning blame does not. Stop using names.

2. Feature creep is common to all development. Recognize it and recognize when developers are doing it. Every developer wants to add crap just because they think it is cool. What a developer thinks is cool is meaningless. What users think is cool has value.

This isn’t rocket science.
eph

[Nockm]

EDIT: Removed a whole bunch of crap...

Well I know when I'm beat. Looks like staff think you're fine, so like I said - I'll leave it at that.
I've not said anything bad about you (Cheese) as a actual developer who creates things. If I said or gave that impression, I retract it since I'm not knowledgeable about you at all. I'll leave that evaluation to the better-informed members of the public.

However what I will say, is that I don't think you're the best-equipped person to speak on behalf of the Dev team. From what I see, you mean well and give up a lot of your time, and hopefully you'll see what I mean one day. Or maybe I'll see what you mean, who knows.


Best regards and carry on making cool stuff!

[roxxkatt]

Cheese's actions have both caused Dexter to quit

this is why noone listens to you, fyi

[Nockm]

Muppets.

It's as some people haven't soaked in the two main ideas of this thread that, to me were painfully obvious:

1. You have to communicate and, at least let the public feel included in your plans.
2. Cheese's actions have both caused Dexter to quit and the image of TW Dev to be at an all-time low. It's only a matter of time till he causes the next catastrophe. He must be removed immediately.
3. Whoever's in charge: Say something.

[Jason]

definitely a shame to see dexter get shafted so badly. he's a great guy and yet another victim of the absolute abyss that is tw staff.

agreeing with nockm here, i just don't understand all the secrecy? why aren't these things publicly discussed from day one? if that would have happened in this case, allllll this hullabaloo would've been easily avoided. we'd still have a dedicated and very competent coder on our side. and we would also probably have a fun twist on pub to dick around with from time to time.

organization, responsibility, management, PUBLIC RELATIONS, come on these are not tough concepts, yet they always plague every new project that comes along. dev gets the worst of it all the time, too. i've had some limited interactions with the dev team over the years, and those poor guys are always treated as an afterthought. left out of every loop. why?

[Nockm]

Fyi guys, arobas has been working on some pretty awesome !buy specialties that i helped test a bit. This system isnt finished yet and i think u should wait for the big guns to come out. Some thangs might be changing and more cool tricks are being added.The system u saw before was there for large scale testing

Thanks for telling us about these big gun ideas and asking for our opinions before rolling them out.

[Xog]

Fyi guys, arobas has been working on some pretty awesome !buy specialties that i helped test a bit. This system isnt finished yet and i think u should wait for the big guns to come out. Some thangs might be changing and more cool tricks are being added.The system u saw before was there for large scale testing

[kthx]

Right but don't you think that during my five years on staff that I had a few dickheads call me out for hosting the thousands of events I hosted? Being thin skinned isn't enough reason for me to be apologetic about something that we have every right to question.

[Stabwound]

Nice long rant, but I was there when it was first put into pub and I personally asked for the jav restriction to be removed, and I also know all about the "bannings" and whatever and spoke about it on the upper staff chat channel. I've been reading this thread since day one. Just because I haven't been posting here doesn't mean I haven't been talking about it with other staff. I said I didn't know about this system until it was implemented and the ?help calls started rolling in- referring to Dexter's point about him having no staff support nor anyone telling him that he should test it outside of pub before implementing it. The zone recycled and the system was just put into effect without him even notifying anyone that it was being done. I think this was all a surprise to almost everyone, including the majority of staff. Nowhere did I say I haven't been following and being involved in this, but no, I did not know about this until it was put into pub.

People in this game are so quick to attack and denigrate the people that put work into it. You were staff for a long time and surely must know what I'm talking about. When people start personally attacking someone that was trying to help improve the game, that's total bullshit. Bot coding and website work is the most thankless job there is, and it's no wonder Dexter quit after the behaviour of some people in reaction to the new money system.

Also, my point still stands that the biggest problem right now is that super and some of the other things you can buy are too cheap/common.