Pub Problems

[Vatican Assassin]

neither base or spawn area kills should be penalized, they are each essential parts of TW

[Arobas+]

Yo calm down Mythril, basing is not everything but we encourage people to play in base. I didn't say at all I was going to force everyone to base. As you may know, we are trying to bring more mini-game/event in pub without interfering with the base game going on. If our new features (in this case, kill-o-thon) kills the basing game, well, we need to do something. We both agree the main event in pub is the basing game, right? We don't force anyone, but if we can help to make it more fun.. we will do it. The problem is not about being killed in spawn, it's because people stop basing and stay in the spawn area for the whole kill-o-thon. You end up with "fuck the base, let's spawn".

Solutions (1 or more could be applied):

• Limit where kills count. (the whole base only)
• Less frequent (1 every hour and of short period, 5 min?)
• Started only between a game (when a freq win after 3 rounds)

[Mythril]

We both agree the main event in pub is the basing game, right?

no

dueling is as much a part of pub as is the basing. the fact that you have half of the people dueling and half the people basing should be enough evidence. you can encourage basing, that's fine, but don't entirely discourage dueling by making it worthless. i mean dude wtf are you thinkin? no pub cash for dueling kills, no killothons.. where's the reward in dueling? unfortunately it seems like i'm the only wb who's giving my opinions on the forum about pub, but i'm speaking for at least half of the people who play pub nowadays (considering half the people duel). this is horrible idea

my suggestions for encouraging basing:

remove the levi again - you wanna talk about discouraging basing? LT's murking the flagroom 10 people at a time is your biggest problem
have a basing killothon along with the dueling killothon, it shouldn't be hard to do (but even if you do this, basers will cry that terrs and sharks have no chance of winning)

pub is fine dude, stop trying to make so many drastic changes, especially ones that completely fuck over half the people and reward the other half

[Soup du Jour]

Myth, I would agree that many people come to pub to duel and it's a part of the game that shouldn't be discouraged. But neither should basing! The way the kill-a-thons happen now,

Ex. If there are 30 people in an arena and 5 are dueling, you can still have a good time because it takes 5 seconds to get back into the action once you die. If there are 20 people dueling in spawn, you might have a better time (?) but the basing side has been destroyed.
I don't envy Aro's position trying to make everyone happy.

Besides, do you really do all this for the money? I sure don't.

[MaGi kOz]

Can the killothon be incorporated into the basing? Instead of setting how much time you have to rack up kills in a killothon, how about racking up as many kills during a round of basing no matter how long it is. Either that, turn killothon on in between rounds and announce the winner of killothon after the end of the game of basing. How about that?

[Mythril]

Myth, I would agree that many people come to pub to duel and it's a part of the game that shouldn't be discouraged. But neither should basing! The way the kill-a-thons happen now,

Ex. If there are 30 people in an arena and 5 are dueling, you can still have a good time because it takes 5 seconds to get back into the action once you die. If there are 20 people dueling in spawn, you might have a better time (?) but the basing side has been destroyed.
I don't envy Aro's position trying to make everyone happy.

Besides, do you really do all this for the money? I sure don't.

the problem is dueling is being discouraged 100%.. not 20%, not 50%.. but 100%

and maybe you're right, i wouldn't know because during killothons i'm not in base, i'm out slaying newbies with my lanc B) but if it really is that detrimental, it needs to be tweaked. i'm just saying killothon is very fun for duelers and it's not fair to exclude them from it, just like it's not fair right now to exclude basers from it. however we could argue that basers are fighting for flag which is a game in itself, where as wbs ONLY have killothon and streaking.

and of course it's not all about the money. it's a small reward, but it is a reward and it's enough to make people more interested in playing, like me, rasaq, cres, welt, peru, acidbomber, etc, people that you wouldn't normally see in pub.

and sorry if i've came off as a dick, because i really do appreciate everything you've done arobas. i just don't think this is fair

[riske]

Just make the kill-o-thon kills only count inside base, really a simple solution. As long as it doesnt choke the server checking all the coords I dont see what the big deal is.

[Vatican Assassin]

Just make the kill-o-thon kills only count inside base, really a simple solution. As long as it doesnt choke the server checking all the coords I dont see what the big deal is.

are you reading myth's concerns? why limit killa thon at all? if i can get more kills in flag room with my spid as myth can in spawn with his lanc then fuck him, right myth?

[Mythril]

FUCK HIM YO. and riske you have totally missed the point

[Teh Super]

Here's an idea to fix this "spawn problem". Obviously some people like one thing and some another, but both should have their share of getting cash for what they do. In pub, basing is to be encouraged so it should remain option #1 by at least a slight margin when you're strictly for filling your e-wallet, but spawners should get something too. However, the problem is, in pub freqs, the random ratio of spawners to basers generally causes the basing game to be unbalanced, even if the crude numbers are around the same. It probably tends to get worse, too: I'd imagine the losing side is more likely to quit in times of imbalance than the winners, but eventually they will too due to boredom.

SOLUTION: restrict gaining money etc. to different areas based on freqs - have 2 public "basing freqs" and 2 public "spawn freqs". Bot would handle entering players to keep teams balanced for each freq type, and the way to make players actually split to them would be through bot - it would inform you about how the system works and you would be asked to set a personal default option (that you could change at will). Each freq type would gain money or kills that count for their respective killothon (they would be separate) only by playing in their designated map area. Priv freqs would gain them anywhere, as if they belonged to both categories, since they take away their "dead weight" (to whichever game they don't play) anyway and can decide among themselves where to direct team effort, if any.

In the above scenario, there would be a basing kill-o-thon and a dueling kill-o-thon, both happening at the same time. Alternatively it could be restricted to just duelers, if, for example, it for some reason seems unfit to integrate to basing. This would be ok for basers at least balance-wise since participants would have to change freq. Priv freqs would then be counted as "duelers" in kill-o-thon, that is, kills in base wouldn't count for them (to discourage LTs/thor lobbers from abusing basers). But if it simply proves too popular and "kills basing", Arob's option #2 (have it be infrequent enough) seems fine to me. I don't think squeezing it to the 1:30 between basing games would work, assuming it's supposed to be something people could actually try at; in that short a time period thor 10fers and similar flukes would dominate.

Now, you don't have to deal with ugly restrictions or herding through rewards and pub can be the free-for-all playground that it always should've been, where all playstyles are equal (well, almost) and you can do whatever you want. Heck, even numbers in spawn might even encourage some kind of teamplay. Maybe even pave the way for some kind of an ongoing "pub deathmatch" minigame, kinda like pure pub for duelers... just to throw ideas around. (This could be like the event, but you don't actually get specced when you "die out", your kills just would "not count" anymore. Or something)

To go with this arrangement, at least a few things should be dealt with:
1) Levs in spawn are worthless so you shouldn't get money or killothon count from them, but the moment they enter base or get high enough in roof, they should be standard prey for basers/priv freqqers. Now that I mention it, their worth should grow higher the closer to base they get: like $ in mid, $$ in fr level side tubes/roof and something like the amount you get from killing a terr when inside fr (however much that is), plus extra if they have 20+ bounty. In general, when it comes to spawn/killothon, you might want to set other ship-specific factors based on fighting capabilities (oh boy, the threads about ranking ships finally get some purpose?).

2) Priv freqqers shouldn't be racking up streaks/money by thorring masses of basers indiscriminately. Or do that anyway, at least too often (originally my concern was boosting kill-o-thon but the above suggestions would fix that, since they'd need to kill in base too). Sufficiently high prices might be a good deterrent, but anyway, off the top of my head I'd propose limiting thor usage to 1-3 per flagging round in the following way: add a pack of three thors for like $3000+ (to go with the current price level) to the store. You could only either buy/use one thor during a round, or a 3-pack of them; if you wanted to use more than one, you'd need to spend more money at once and risk wasting some of it by getting killed before using all three. Thus efficient use would require some skill/planning and overall laming would be reduced.

3) Priv levterrs shouldn't gain too much out of random kills inside base - not sure how to handle this, if at all. Making the worth of kills without flag sufficiently low might help, but that might cause unwanted consequences for basing like people changing to winning team. Additionally, if the LT was part of a flagging team its actions shouldn't be penalized. Then again, the inherent difficulty and cost in setting up an LT might just sort out the problem by itself (especially if you just had to buy the lev, which I thought should've been implemented instead of the modifications, but that's just me).

Essentially this would be like: "Hey New Player, would you like to mainly base or roam spawn? The choice only affects what pubcash rewards you get; you may not care about them, and that's cool. But would you please make the choice for the sake of balance? Also, if you don't care about having teammates or prefer to form your own team, please play on a private freq - those are unrestricted reward-wise. Thank you." How to effectively communicate the relevant stuff with reasonably few words is another thing, though... but not impossible, I'd guess.

[roxxkatt]

for tl;dr:

have 2 public "basing freqs" and 2 public "spawn freqs"
a basing kill-o-thon and a dueling kill-o-thon

[Soup du Jour]

I just watched helplessly as Acidbomber, lizard fuel and menomena repped their way into the base while I couldn't even buy items.

What's going on?
And why are these guys abusing a bug for an extended time?

[Lizard Fuel]

I don't know the technical reasons behind it, but what my crew and I were doing tonight was with the blessings of staff. A bug was found with the pub bot and we were trying to figure out a way around the glitches that were taking place, which Dexter/Dezmond/Someone that begins with a D eventually figured out and fixed. I can't explain why you couldn't buy anything, because I really have no idea, but I was spending the money that I already had, so its not like I was doing it all for free!

[Twenty Four]

I just watched helplessly as Acidbomber, lizard fuel and menomena repped their way into the base while I couldn't even buy items.

What's going on?
And why are these guys abusing a bug for an extended time?

There is still a problem w/ the bot. Until Arobas+ can fix it.
If you can't !buy anything, or see your money in the top right-hand side of your screen, just have someone donate you 10 pub bucks.

Your money will show up, and then you can use it. Weird glitch, but that's how it works for now.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
-24

[Aequi]

The goal should certainly be to try and make room for as many play-styles as possible, but personally i am only interested in pure pub basing and within that scope i only spider and shark.

So from my perspective spawning "duelists" and private freq LTs (new Lev included) are simply people leaching of my preferred play-style. Essentially these people can opt-out of my play-style, but i am forced to suffer under theirs.

I would suggest limiting some of it with the new spacebucks, but we already have too many disruptive players with seemingly "endless-money" for thors, super and strikes, personally i don't use spacebucks.

Currently i consider basing impossible in pub - however - it does happen that we get one or two hour session once-a-month, where its just two full freqs going at it, without disruptive leachers. Unfortunately its rare.

Please keep trying to improve pub, it would be great if newly arrived players would stick around longer. I keep coming back to pub to find that perfect base-fight that i love so much.