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I made this post on the main Subspace Boards but I guess that was a bad idea. You can see the original post here.
Originally posted by 0a0x0e0
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First off, I have been playing Trench Wars for a long time. I have seen all the changes, some forgotten some not. Trench Wars has been a part of my life since I was 12 years old. Started playing around 98 99ish and have had the AXE.0000 nickname since 2000. I never spec, so my play time reflects actual in game playtime and less than 1% of it is specced (I believe its sitting around 1.4k hours right now). I have a few other nicks, and everything added up it adds to about 2.5k hours of playtime (remember no speccing at all). That said, I think I have a little seniority on 'ol Trench and I have a few things to say about the changes.
First off, change is hard. One of the reasons why most of us come back to Trench Wars is because of the stability. It's been virtually unchanged in the last 10 years. We have seen minor changes to base on account of LTs, we have seen the weasel try to find its identity through several changes. I personally liked the last time the weasel was small and had stealth/cloak and could barely shoot, but that's me.
I really hated this new base. I did. I voiced my opinion to a few people and some staff and they were really nice about it and said they would pass on my sentiments to the dev team. Not sure if it happened. I will say that I have warmed up a bit to the base, and only because they actually kept my favorite shots in fr untouched (thank god), and actually added some interesting new holes that are kind of fun to learn how to shoot. All in all, I can honestly say I have warmed up to the new base. I will offer some criticism though, why not have two pubs? One with the new base and one with the old? You know some of us have played in that virtually unchanged base for the last 12 years? Throwing it away is like a big "F YOU" to all the old player base that loved it. Not everyone is interested in playing in league anymore, I am getting too old to care for it, so leaving one of the pubs the old base and one the new base would be a little more thoughtful to all of us that make Trench Wars what it is.
Also, why do away with pure pubs? I was part of a group that made pure pubs what is was. We were trying to do some serious basing in pub on private freqs and the LTs were just a skill-less I-win machine from outside FR. We voiced our opinion about it and they put in "pure" pubs that barred the levi from being an optional ship. This greatly contributed to the skill based game play when it was possible.
This also brings me to my probably most loathed change that I will never warm up to ever at all. I will try to put this as tactful as possible, but please hear me out. The new levi changes are bad. They are. And here is why. Levis have never been a ship that catered to skill. But they were almost impossible to use solo. Their bomb splash damage was enough to take you by surprise and just completely wipe out an entire fr despite your best intention of 'keeping blue bomb watch' when playing. Here was the upside to the old levis though, they couldn't be used solo. They were an easy target. So much so that some people considered it undignified to kill a levi in spawn. I was one of those people most of the time. Now? Now they have souped up the already skill-less splash damage ship by increasing its thrusters, turn radius and (drumroll please) HEALTH. Seriously? A Levi now can survive SOLO on its own easier AND can survive a level 3 (white/blue) bullet. So for those of us who slave for thousands of hours to learn how to shoot well and proper with a ship like WB that prides itself on needing accuracy to kill (and not any splash damage, just "get it near" the enemy. You NEED a direct hit) a WB can now shoot a perfect shot through a small hole at an LT or a levi outside FR and the levi will not die. This is totally shortsighted. It is killing any kind of skill based game play in Trench Wars.
I also play a lot in DSB, and I can say without a doubt that DSB has far less tolerance of newb players. If you are a bad shot, or don't know how to fly your ship than you just won't kill hardly anyone and you will die a lot in DSB. You need some skill. Even before the changes to Trench Wars it was a zone that catered to newbs. People with no skill could hang out in spawn and actually SPAWN KILL PLAYERS THAT JUST DIED because you don't spawn in a safe. I know for years people who would do this and it gave some of those players a reason to play the game. It was lame, but it hasn't left (I still hate it and think you should spawn in safe like DSB, but w/e). Javs, don't get me started. Getting constantly tked by newb javs is ENOUGH. Please don't put me in a fr with a newb jav and expect me to be A-OK with all the newb levis that are showing up in FR now. I have literally been in FR with 5, yes FIVE newb levis tking me over and over, and the rest of the team. Getting tked by bad sharks and bad javs is enough, please don't make the levi this over powered ship that can eat level 3 bullets and survive solo and live in fr leeching splash damage kills off of people that are actually skillfully using their ship (like the terr, arguably the most valuable team member. Nothing like having a good terr finally and him getting tked by a levi).
I really wish that the devs of this game would consult some of the old player base when making changes. Even making changes to the base, I know that I could have a lot of good input on how base could be setup. In the old base there were some really neat and hard shots that could be accomplished and I wonder if the new devs have even considered these things when putting together a new FR or new base concept. Part of the reason why SS has such great replay ability is because of the possibilities. There were shots that I was still learning how to do well even after 10 years. Not to mention all of the memories and people that used to play the game. I could pick up the game after a year long break and it would still be the same, I could still go "oh yea I remember that shot" from bottom safe or roof or inside mid. There are a couple shots that I actually invented and have never seen anyone else do, and a few that I have been the only one to my knowledge who can do them in WB. Please consider these things when you are making changes, the old player base isn't going to embrace all of your changes but some of them like these over powered levi changes are just too much honestly. This levi is killing skill based game play. If you are bent on keeping them over powered, at least give us back pure pubs.
I hope to see a lot of the player base return soon, a lot of my old friends who used to play a lot. This is for you guys:
Will
Master of Dragons
MethaX
Meddi
r4mb
Avitronix
Newbcaek
Powerded Toast Man
Teancum
Morte Wulfe
Dack Falu
Talon
Ice_Cap
Maleficarum
Seal666
Random07
and others I can't even think of right now.
-AXE.0000
*EDIT
I forgot to mentioned a few other things that over power the levi now. They can upgrade to level 4 shots which makes them more powerful than old levi, and they EMP now. Way too much. Think about this ship compared to other ships and what Trench is about, and you should conclude how over powered they are. They need a major rework back into their old style or changed altogether to do something else.
First off, change is hard. One of the reasons why most of us come back to Trench Wars is because of the stability. It's been virtually unchanged in the last 10 years. We have seen minor changes to base on account of LTs, we have seen the weasel try to find its identity through several changes. I personally liked the last time the weasel was small and had stealth/cloak and could barely shoot, but that's me.
I really hated this new base. I did. I voiced my opinion to a few people and some staff and they were really nice about it and said they would pass on my sentiments to the dev team. Not sure if it happened. I will say that I have warmed up a bit to the base, and only because they actually kept my favorite shots in fr untouched (thank god), and actually added some interesting new holes that are kind of fun to learn how to shoot. All in all, I can honestly say I have warmed up to the new base. I will offer some criticism though, why not have two pubs? One with the new base and one with the old? You know some of us have played in that virtually unchanged base for the last 12 years? Throwing it away is like a big "F YOU" to all the old player base that loved it. Not everyone is interested in playing in league anymore, I am getting too old to care for it, so leaving one of the pubs the old base and one the new base would be a little more thoughtful to all of us that make Trench Wars what it is.
Also, why do away with pure pubs? I was part of a group that made pure pubs what is was. We were trying to do some serious basing in pub on private freqs and the LTs were just a skill-less I-win machine from outside FR. We voiced our opinion about it and they put in "pure" pubs that barred the levi from being an optional ship. This greatly contributed to the skill based game play when it was possible.
This also brings me to my probably most loathed change that I will never warm up to ever at all. I will try to put this as tactful as possible, but please hear me out. The new levi changes are bad. They are. And here is why. Levis have never been a ship that catered to skill. But they were almost impossible to use solo. Their bomb splash damage was enough to take you by surprise and just completely wipe out an entire fr despite your best intention of 'keeping blue bomb watch' when playing. Here was the upside to the old levis though, they couldn't be used solo. They were an easy target. So much so that some people considered it undignified to kill a levi in spawn. I was one of those people most of the time. Now? Now they have souped up the already skill-less splash damage ship by increasing its thrusters, turn radius and (drumroll please) HEALTH. Seriously? A Levi now can survive SOLO on its own easier AND can survive a level 3 (white/blue) bullet. So for those of us who slave for thousands of hours to learn how to shoot well and proper with a ship like WB that prides itself on needing accuracy to kill (and not any splash damage, just "get it near" the enemy. You NEED a direct hit) a WB can now shoot a perfect shot through a small hole at an LT or a levi outside FR and the levi will not die. This is totally shortsighted. It is killing any kind of skill based game play in Trench Wars.
I also play a lot in DSB, and I can say without a doubt that DSB has far less tolerance of newb players. If you are a bad shot, or don't know how to fly your ship than you just won't kill hardly anyone and you will die a lot in DSB. You need some skill. Even before the changes to Trench Wars it was a zone that catered to newbs. People with no skill could hang out in spawn and actually SPAWN KILL PLAYERS THAT JUST DIED because you don't spawn in a safe. I know for years people who would do this and it gave some of those players a reason to play the game. It was lame, but it hasn't left (I still hate it and think you should spawn in safe like DSB, but w/e). Javs, don't get me started. Getting constantly tked by newb javs is ENOUGH. Please don't put me in a fr with a newb jav and expect me to be A-OK with all the newb levis that are showing up in FR now. I have literally been in FR with 5, yes FIVE newb levis tking me over and over, and the rest of the team. Getting tked by bad sharks and bad javs is enough, please don't make the levi this over powered ship that can eat level 3 bullets and survive solo and live in fr leeching splash damage kills off of people that are actually skillfully using their ship (like the terr, arguably the most valuable team member. Nothing like having a good terr finally and him getting tked by a levi).
I really wish that the devs of this game would consult some of the old player base when making changes. Even making changes to the base, I know that I could have a lot of good input on how base could be setup. In the old base there were some really neat and hard shots that could be accomplished and I wonder if the new devs have even considered these things when putting together a new FR or new base concept. Part of the reason why SS has such great replay ability is because of the possibilities. There were shots that I was still learning how to do well even after 10 years. Not to mention all of the memories and people that used to play the game. I could pick up the game after a year long break and it would still be the same, I could still go "oh yea I remember that shot" from bottom safe or roof or inside mid. There are a couple shots that I actually invented and have never seen anyone else do, and a few that I have been the only one to my knowledge who can do them in WB. Please consider these things when you are making changes, the old player base isn't going to embrace all of your changes but some of them like these over powered levi changes are just too much honestly. This levi is killing skill based game play. If you are bent on keeping them over powered, at least give us back pure pubs.
I hope to see a lot of the player base return soon, a lot of my old friends who used to play a lot. This is for you guys:
Will
Master of Dragons
MethaX
Meddi
r4mb
Avitronix
Newbcaek
Powerded Toast Man
Teancum
Morte Wulfe
Dack Falu
Talon
Ice_Cap
Maleficarum
Seal666
Random07
and others I can't even think of right now.
-AXE.0000
*EDIT
I forgot to mentioned a few other things that over power the levi now. They can upgrade to level 4 shots which makes them more powerful than old levi, and they EMP now. Way too much. Think about this ship compared to other ships and what Trench is about, and you should conclude how over powered they are. They need a major rework back into their old style or changed altogether to do something else.
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