2vs2 Money Tournament: December 4th

[Brentos]

ive read ur hints but im still not getting it?
are u suggesting that u will pervert the course of justice or that we should turn a blind eye to the criminal offending of tw staff?

[Turban]

rather, we should just try to have some fun instead of being a little whiny troll. i recall seeing you in game a few times, and every single time you're trying your hardest to troll someone like crazy.

how about we call this a "charity tournament" instead then, you'll donate some money to be eligible to participate. horray. just bored as hell, the first tournament went alright and i'm planning on doing more in the future -- probably has to wait for next year though.

[Supreme]

This is a game with a small fairly closed community. Who's gonna report Turban. This isnt staff organizing this is Turban organizing.

I'd be the first to make fun of/or point out mistakes (etc.) but meh. Its actually a good idea to keep this up.

Furthermore im pretty sure the law is less strict in finland, if he was from USA it would be more risky, but lets not compare a 100 bucks-bet to a pokersite. One could even go as far as to say these are friends making a bet between friends.

[Brentos]

§ 5363. Prohibition on acceptance of any financial instrument for unlawful Internet gambling ''
No person engaged in the business of betting or wagering may knowingly accept, in connection with the participation of another person in unlawful Internet gambling— ''
(1) credit, or the proceeds of credit, extended to or on behalf of such other person (including credit extended through the use of a credit card);
''(2) an electronic fund transfer, or funds transmitted by or through a money transmitting business, or the proceeds of an electronic fund transfer or money transmitting service, from or on behalf of such other person;
''(3) any check, draft, or similar instrument which is drawn by or on behalf of such other person and is drawn on or payable at or through any financial institution; or
''(4) the proceeds of any other form of financial transaction, as the Secretary and the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System may jointly prescribe by regulation, which involves a financial institution as a payor or financial intermediary on behalf of or for the benefit of such other person.

''§ 5366. Criminal penalties ''
(a) IN GENERAL.—Any person who violates section 5363 shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.
''(b) PERMANENT INJUNCTION.—Upon conviction of a person under this section, the court may enter a permanent injunction enjoining such person from placing, receiving, or otherwise making bets or wagers or sending, receiving, or inviting information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers.

§ 5367. Circumventions prohibited ''
Notwithstanding section 5362(2), a financial transaction provider, or any interactive computer service or telecommunications service, may be liable under this subchapter if such person has actual knowledge and control of bets and wagers, and— ''(1) operates, manages, supervises, or directs an Internet website at which unlawful bets or wagers may be placed, received, or otherwise made, or at which unlawful bets or wagers are offered to be placed, received, or otherwise made; or
''(2) owns or controls, or is owned or controlled by, any person who operates, manages, supervises, or directs an Internet website at which unlawful bets or wagers may be placed, received, or otherwise made, or at which unlawful bets or wagers are offered to be placed, received, or otherwise made.''.
(b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of sections for chapter 53 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: ''SUBCHAPTER IV—PROHIBITION ON FUNDING OF UNLAWFUL INTERNET GAMBLING ''5361. Congressional findings and purpose. ''5362. Definitions. ''5363. Prohibition on acceptance of any financial instrument for unlawful Internet gambling. ''5364. Policies and procedures to identify and prevent restricted transactions. ''5365. Civil remedies. ''5366. Criminal penalties. ''5367. Circumventions prohibited.''. H. R. 4954—79

server and the people who run it are in the us aren't they?

[Brentos]

nothing like a good morning troll

[Miku19]

As far as I know, people donate to the trench wars charity fund and the money goes to those who need it the most.

[Dabram]

First to be correct: Poker isnt gambling, it's a game of skill which has an element of chance in it (which makes it mathematically fun). I hate gambling because I don't trust on something dumb as luck (long run you'll always lose because % favours the house). I love games of skill, if you're better than ave, in the long run you'll win. You just have to find out on which level you're still better than ave.
And it's not about if poker is gambling or not, it's about the USA not getting any taxes out of it. The companies are mostly settled in the UK, and the players right now only pay rake to those companies. It's up to debate if poker winnings should be taxed as income / flat / gambling tax, but right now as it is you only pay rake which doesn't make sense indeed.
I see poker more as trading in stock, so you should only pay flat tax (here it's 1.2%). And if you do it just recreational and only make a small amount, it should be tax free (in holland it's 21k$). In the end in both cases you put your own money into it, and have a risk of losing (if you do it 'right' / 'skilfully' however you should make money in the long haul = you pay small amount of taxes). I'd argue those who earn a lot (100k/200k+ should pay more than the 1.2% however).

(right now in Holland the official law is that you have to declare your poker winnings each month and pay 33% taxes over it, however if you lose a few months (or don't play every month, which is my case) it's not like you're getting cash back from the gvment either. So almost nobody (except maybe those who play 10000+ tournaments a year) could do so while still being able to make profit from poker. In Sweden it's even weirder I think, you have to pay taxes over every $ you win, so if you're a cash game player even if you just win the blinds in one hand you would already have to pay taxes over it.. It's beyond ridiculous, because within hours you'll be up to 1000s of $ in debt.. I wish theyd have the same ridiculous laws for stock traders, who just like poker players aren't contributing anything to society but have the ability to seriously cripple the financial markets..)

Tl;dr
the day the US gvment / or any gvment notices theres money flowing around in this game they aint getting any of is quite far away, since for poker it took about 6 years of billions of dollars going back and forth between players before anything happened. here it would become maybe 1000$ a year, it'd probably cost them more $ to get any of it than theres to get..

[Lock]

I'd have a lot of interest participating in any type of money tourny you put on Turban.
Just the mention of this sparked my interest to come back.

I think it's a great idea, and that was smart of Riverside and Engineers to donate half the winnings back into the prize funds. I've been wanting money deals since back in 2002 haha. I'm glad to see that someone finally has realized the potential of how it could bring a whole slew of interest to TW.

It's way easier to organize a simple 2v2 to practice as well. I always thought there should be a 2v2 league run the same way that twd is run. Tourny was getting sort of outdated and those boxes are way too fucking small for 2v2's. Overall I think this idea could spark some serious interest as long as people have an organized way to practice. Obviously no one new is going to play these tournys because they know they will get their asses kicked, plain and simple.

So ya, that's my input. Good shit Turban.

[Brentos]

its not unlicensed and taxable like i thought its actually illegal full stop like it says in the quotes from the law i put up. Thats why americans cant play cash games in pokerstars or anywhere else online because all the exchange of money happens online and thats wat that section 5363 is about. TW profiting from breaking the law, no better then the time trancetunes hit that guy on the head for 50 buks

[Turban]

I might try to arrange another tournament next year, as I currently don't have the time to host one until after New Year's eve.

I could look into working on a new tournament arena just for cash events with a specially made bot for it. I agree that the arena is pretty horrible for 2vs2 (small boxes main concern) but it was the best option available at that time.

[Turban]

I was actually requested/asked not to host any more of these tournaments due to that troll post by someone specific, nonetheless, I would want to continue hosting these events time to time and will most likely make it happen -- even if that means that I have to leave staff, hah.

[Brentos]

I was actually requested/asked not to host any more of these tournaments

you got told son Turban just got smanged irl so ez
bro the law is the law and u broke it, i was gonna wait for you to host another tournament and then report tw to the authorities so that way tw couldnt talk its way out of flaunting the law
oh well with tw staff full of dirty criminals ill get my chance to get atleast one of you imprisoned

[the_paul]

Shut the fuck up already brentos. The day you have a positive contribution of any kind to the game is the day you're allowed to be a nuisance. Seeing as the only positive thing you could do for all of us would be to quit, we're in a catch 22 here. I guess your only option is in the first sentence: shut the fuck up.

[Brentos]

Bro u sound mad? How mad bro? 1-10?
this was an epic fail from all staff u know paul, lucky brentos was here to bring to light filthy turban flaunting the law like he did
bro in society there are 2 kinds of things, legal things and illegal things. this was clearly illegal and you should all be ashamed
wat was stopping kids from gambling away all their money in tw tournaments and turning to a life of crime to support their addiction? not you thats for sure
god bless brentos

[PH]