Killing my fun in pub.

[Rasaq]

So I was playing pub today and was enjoying a nice 13 vs 14 freq match, basically a 8v8, when two people thought it would be cool to join a separate freq and LT. What went from being a fun base match quickly turned into a 3v1/3v2 with no real interest in continuing, just people flying around trying to kill the LT or just giving up on entering base completely. New pub system is fucking horrible, as is this response: Rasaq> ?help why is there lt in pub right now? have a nice 8v8 pub match going on and it's ruining it completely PathetiQ <ER>> because as it currently stands... this is the only active arena that can use levi PathetiQ <ER>> And Levs are fun PathetiQ <ER>> You can dodge them

[Jerome Scuggs]

fukn agreed after a certain time like 2am eastern pubs should become pure, or outright implement pure pub 5 out of 7 days or something

[BooBiesYaY]

So I was playing pub today and was enjoying a nice 13 vs 14 freq match, basically a 8v8, when two people thought it would be cool to join a separate freq and LT. What went from being a fun base match quickly turned into a 3v1/3v2 with no real interest in continuing, just people flying around trying to kill the LT or just giving up on entering base completely. New pub system is fucking horrible, as is this response: Rasaq> ?help why is there lt in pub right now? have a nice 8v8 pub match going on and it's ruining it completely PathetiQ <ER>> because as it currently stands... this is the only active arena that can use levi PathetiQ <ER>> And Levs are fun PathetiQ <ER>> You can dodge them

LT's are already dead. The only real viable LT's left are me and my friends. So many Lt's have quit already, including, Y ?, lafman, mother ship, dr. gene, da a$$man, bond girl and countless others.

The only ones left that LT in a serious way are me and my friends. Im gone, and I wont be back so that leaves my friends who LT a lot less and will probably end up quitting eventually also, which is sad for me but all good things must come to an end.

LT's are already nuked with the huge anti-field, no safes, and less holes, and on top of that, they made superlev a 2 minute duration only lol. I know that some mods told me that they would be putting back old levs once and for all but its futile at this point.

Basers have legitimate arguments but taking away LT will do more harm then good. Pure basing was never meant for TW, LT's and levs were always part of the game, to "mix things up" and add the extra level of power and game changing potential. Taking it away has happened in the past and it did nothing really.

But you know what, i already told mods they should just take it away for good. Be done with it, all of us serious LT'ers have already abandoned ship so just make levs non-attachable and be done with it. Heck, I did probably 75% of all lting up until 3-4 weeks ago, and basers are STILL complaining about 1 LT showing up rofl..

So yeah, take levs away, gg. See you inferno, exec, shock and all the rest that are left and probably will abandon ship eventually too.

[BooBiesYaY]

What went from being a fun base match quickly turned into a 3v1/3v2 with no real interest in continuing, just people flying around trying to kill the LT or just giving up on entering base completely.

I base terr'ed as much as I LT'ed in pubs. Constantly, you had a single freq dominate over the other freq and even though it mightve still been 15v15, the entire other freq would give up or just be farmed one by one. So if we are going to talk honestly, lets talk about all the times that base matches turn to crap.

Sometimes, if I'm on the freq being dominated beacuse of a "talent imbalance" so to speak, i will terr my friend who will lev and try to compensate or as i described in my last post "mix it up" or demonstrate that the game could have a "game changing aspect" when needed, ie high risk high reward. You cant get that without LT's.

I can't tell you how many times i used that situation to re-start interest between two freqs, often clearing the entire freq in base that was farming the crap freq 1 by 1 for like 30 minutes and putting the dominat freq on the defensive again. LT's can be used to self-correct these talent imbalances like having 15 very good basers vs 15 farmed amateurs..

So just blatantly assuming LT's have no purpose and are "evil" is wrong. Sometimes they can be annoying and if you know how to LT well you can really do some damage, but on the whole they are a necessary part of the game.

But as i said before, take them away because constantly changing their form from super strongest to on a death bed is pointless. Take them away and lets see if the game is better after, who knows it might be. This way basers can stop their 10 year bitching and all sing coombyaa around a campfire while they have their 15v15 games for a whole 30 minutes then when they log off its 3v3 again.

[bandcampgirl]

agreed with the op

wtf are the retards running, er ruining, this game doing?


take away killothon that everyone had fun with supposedly because it hurt basing (wtf 10 minutes an hour?? ) and leave the levs that ruin it all the time

[Downfall]

Pub will never satisfy everyon

[Zeebu]

Pub was better without bots

[Supreme]

Pub was better without people

[Demonic]

pub is not designed for pure basing, ?go base etc is for that, its for new players to get a feel for ships, to bascially have a little fun doing what you like within the zone rules. People enjoy LT, and pub is the only place for them to do it, so if you want 8v8 basing, use ?go base.

[Rasaq]

So you don't want people to experience basing in pub yet we have a command that allows people to challenge other people in different ships? We have ?go duel for that. What a lame excuse. If you want LTing in pub, then when there's 12-16 people in FR, DISABLE all other freqs. I wouldn't mind freq 1 or 2 having a levi around to gain leverage in FR with maybe a set timer of how long you're allowed to be in the levi...but when you have two freqs having a fun battle in FR and two people on a totally different freq LTing, it completely ruins the FR battle.

[Subterranean]

Dodging LTs is usually painfully easy. The only time I usually get tagged by one is when I'm not paying attention. The only complaint I have is when LTs start bombing fr in a small 5v5 flag game or even less sometimes... The game gets killed before it even has a chance to start.

Most people can't be bothered playing ?go base because #1 it's usually dead, and #2 don't get picked.

[MegamanEXE]

I've already made a few arguments against LTs, but I'll address another one here that I've noticed.

Ignoring the immediate effects on pub basing games, LTs in pub mean that new players that don't yet know how to base, or even fly, are subjected to either a swarm of spawnkillers in spawn, or blue/purple bomb spam in base. There have already been threads on the forums about how leagues are dying because there are no new players entering, and about how it's only a competition between the same vet players and vet squads. LTs killing newbs in base will make the newbs not want to base, and focus on spawnkilling and getting lucky one shot kills (if they don't quit the game outright due to spawns or LTs.) This is a problem for both dueling and basing leagues because-

1. Newbs not learning how to base properly means no potential basing leaguers, as they won't want to fight in base and randomly get killed by purple blobs.

2. Newbs not learning how to duel properly because killing AFKs, javs, and sharks in spawn does not prepare newbs for warbird vs warbird fighting.

So LTs are contributing to keeping new players out of leagues.



Next, LTs effectively kill basing by being the complete opposite of the basing and teamwork ethic of TW. Boobiesyay said something about "mixing things up" and "game changing potential" and about how one team usually dominates the other. The problem with allowing LTs to change the game in such a drastic way is that new players won't get the experience of learning how to work together to make a comeback game. Allowing LTs to change the flow of a game so quickly will make newbs apathetic about learning how to fight, and will push them to rely on sudden game-changers like LTs or nukebase.

If a Div I NCAA basketball team never played tough games against other Div I opponents, the team would never learn how to beat teams better than itself. The team would certianly not learn how to play if they were losing against a stronger opponent 50-70 at some point and the refs added 30 points for them at the last second to force their win. Same principle applies to LTs being "game changers" in pub.

In the end, LTs have their "fun" at the expense of allowing new players to learn how to play TW.

[Spock!]

Good Words.

Amen Brother. Amen.

[BooBiesYaY]

pub is not designed for pure basing, ?go base etc is for that, its for new players to get a feel for ships, to bascially have a little fun doing what you like within the zone rules. People enjoy LT, and pub is the only place for them to do it, so if you want 8v8 basing, use ?go base.

thats exactly right, and LT's existed since i first tried TW with dethefire/lain, which was 10 years ago i guess. but basers think that pub is solely for basing, and anything that interferes with a pure hardcore basing match should be illegal.

personally i dont really care, im gone, but i do care about the survival and players of the game so i have to check the forums now and then. because TW is always special to me and my friends who still play or have left. but now that im gone, i cant imagine who would lt still since we did 80% of all lt'ing lol. maybe spacedust or exec or inferno still do like barely..

[BooBiesYaY]

I've already made a few arguments against LTs, but I'll address another one here that I've noticed.

Ignoring the immediate effects on pub basing games, LTs in pub mean that new players that don't yet know how to base, or even fly, are subjected to either a swarm of spawnkillers in spawn, or blue/purple bomb spam in base. There have already been threads on the forums about how leagues are dying because there are no new players entering, and about how it's only a competition between the same vet players and vet squads. LTs killing newbs in base will make the newbs not want to base, and focus on spawnkilling and getting lucky one shot kills (if they don't quit the game outright due to spawns or LTs.) This is a problem for both dueling and basing leagues because-

1. Newbs not learning how to base properly means no potential basing leaguers, as they won't want to fight in base and randomly get killed by purple blobs.

2. Newbs not learning how to duel properly because killing AFKs, javs, and sharks in spawn does not prepare newbs for warbird vs warbird fighting.

So LTs are contributing to keeping new players out of leagues.



Next, LTs effectively kill basing by being the complete opposite of the basing and teamwork ethic of TW. Boobiesyay said something about "mixing things up" and "game changing potential" and about how one team usually dominates the other. The problem with allowing LTs to change the game in such a drastic way is that new players won't get the experience of learning how to work together to make a comeback game. Allowing LTs to change the flow of a game so quickly will make newbs apathetic about learning how to fight, and will push them to rely on sudden game-changers like LTs or nukebase.

If a Div I NCAA basketball team never played tough games against other Div I opponents, the team would never learn how to beat teams better than itself. The team would certianly not learn how to play if they were losing against a stronger opponent 50-70 at some point and the refs added 30 points for them at the last second to force their win. Same principle applies to LTs being "game changers" in pub.

In the end, LTs have their "fun" at the expense of allowing new players to learn how to play TW.

Leauges are dying because people have used lag cheats for a decade in them, vets created a political monopoly, and new people are not eligible to participate due to the fact that vets crush their teams in 5 seconds or simply indirectly dont allow their participation because the rules forbid sucky players.

Aging of the game is affecting new people, plus lack of knowing about the game.

Once again pub isnt about being a better baser. its about having fun in a hopefully balanced environment for the most part. When new people are farmed by a freq with vets, i think an lt evening things out is not only legal, its welcome. But that wasn't a main reason i just threw that out there as a benefit of lt's.

New people probably find it more exciting when they see bombs that can do damage and that extra excitement, rather than just a tug of war match anyway. I know when i first joined I thought it was very cool to have that, even before I started LT'ing.

Idk, i can see some good points and i agree with a lot of what you say, but at the same time i still think the benefits of LT's far outweigh the negatives for many reason's.

Are there really still lt's playing often now days?