Changes in Pub

[dofus]

Heh we don't want the Levi to be a javelin though, so the EMP makes it stand out!!

It already stands out as the "heavy bomber" ship. EMP is just overkill imo

As for weasel I really think cloak should drain energy (slow). Having both infinitely on without penalty has no tactical value.
This will encourage wzl pilots to actually use their brain and know when to toggle Cloak, and only have a limited window of opportunity to ambush their enemy while completely invisible before the energy runs too low. This will give the ship more depth and a higher skill curve.

[Shaddowknight]

Increase speed by 10%.
Level 2 bullets with current multifire angle, higher speed, but also slightly higher fire delay
Level 1 bomb, but only able to mine (max 2).
Allow repel, but no rocket (since higher bullet speed)
Allow buy/green of burst, 5 or 6 burst shrap moving at slow speed.
Allow either cloak but not stealth.
Increase max energy to 1300.

[Dral]

Wzl wb style --- remove stealth, increase speed by 5% and bullet speed by 5%, lose rocket. Add bouncing bullets to give it something different to existing ships.

I like the bouncing bullet idea, gives the weasel a reason to be played. If this were added to wzl though I would remove multifire or decrease BulletAliveTime from its current ~10 seconds to somewhere between 6-8 (effects other ships though :/)

Edit: On second thought, I could easily see an entire priv freq of weasels going to roof and turning the flagroom into ?go dodgeball. That's cool though I like dodgeball

[Rab]

increase speed by 10%, remove rocket

[Demonic]

Weasel - OK let me through this one out to you guys, since you seem all creative this last week. If you had the ability to change the weasel, what would you do. It would need to make sure the following criteria were followed: ****1**** The ability to cloak (but not necessarily stealth) *******2******** Needs to have the ability to support/aid basing as well as being a stand alone ship (like wb can fight in flag room as a baser, but can also have fun solo'ing outside base) ******3******** Cant be identical to any other ship, although can hold certain traits of them. A couple of idea's which aren't necessarily the best but may get you thinking --WZL terr-- No not a terr per say, but give the wzl the ability to allow 1 ship to attach to it. When ship attaches it loses cloak and speed penalty of 75%. Holds L3 multifire bullets, no rocket and one repel. Has cloak but no stealth. ---Wzl Shark --- Remove rocket and stealth, add additional repel and increase speed by 5/10% -- Wzl wb style --- remove stealth, increase speed by 5% and bullet speed by 5%, lose rocket. Add bouncing bullets to give it something different to existing ships. ---Wzl NINJA--- Stealth + cloak, remove rocket but keep everything else the same. No reason why we cant trial the best couple of idea's like we have with the LEV, and tbh the lev settings have generally been preferred by the majority of players (minus perhaps the avid LT'ers)

[Demonic]

Weasel
The maneuverability (speed, rotation, etc) is fine, don't change anything.

About items, it doesn't need Rocket. It can already go invisible and stalk enemy ship without worry that it can see you,
but Rocketing will just encourage laming and "hunting" specific players. Also if someone has XRadar that drains energy (Jav, Shark for example)
even if he constantly toggles it to see where you are, you can just Rocket him very fast and he won't have time to react. its lame.
You have invisibility to retreat, so don't need rocket for that too.

The problem is it can go completely invisible without any penalty, so any newb can hop in wzl and lame in spawn area and hunt Warbirds with high bounty,
it's too easy because there's no skill involved.. you just put stealth and cloak on and slowly fly towards enemy (with Rocket = guaranteed kill).
Make it so Stealth is free, but Cloak slowly drains energy. This forces the pilot to tactically think when to fully engage invisibility, and only has limited time to kill his target before energy becomes too low to fire a shot, it gives the ship a "assassin" feel, not just a ghost that can kill anything easily and disappear.

Also WZL NEEDS XRADAR this is very important, no one likes being killed by enemy wzl because you were visible recharging energy after you killed someone. Better to give all invisible players radar and atleast they can then "duel" eachother fairly.

-Remove Rocket
-Make Cloak drain energy slowly
+Add XRadar

also about small wzl, that was a map problem not the ship problem. The map has too many holes, if you there will be small weasel, atleast remove some holes especially those in flagroom. if bouncing bullets are added the wzl should have lvl 2 bullets, not 3 or else it will be too overpowered (lvl 3 bullets flying around flagroom is basically a burst)

Leviathan
I am for the idea of this ship being a "heavier" Javelin bomber ship. It's better because think: Why do people went LT all the time? Because the Lev is so slow, has bad rotation, and is a sitting duck in spawn. That's why Levs want to attach to Terriers.

It's good to change the lev entirely: make it faster and maneuverable, so it is a solid solo-playing ship, it discourages people to go LT and actually play the Leviathan and enter base. LT is still an option but it has less effect than before because the bombing is weaker. This change was a wise decision.

The EMP is a bad idea in my opinion, it should remain unique to the shark. The blast radius is still pretty big and you can still get alot of kills in base and weaken enemy ships, even now moreso with high rotation which means easier aiming. EMP is too overpowered for Levi because you can disable energy of entire enemy team for several seconds which is crucial in flagroom battles, remove it.

Give it XRadar that drains alot of energy (so you can toggle it like Shark). Levi is still the slowest ship and if only 1 player gets mad and wants to hunt you it's GAME OVER because you will get spawnkilled by a weasel you can never see and all your fancy Repels, rockets and portals won't matter anymore against an invisible player.

-Remove EMP effect
+Make ship even a bit faster
+Give XRadar that drains alot energy

Essentially the Leviathan will be a slow Javelin without bouncing bombs, but bigger bomb radius.

Heh we don't want the Levi to be a javelin though, so the EMP makes it stand out!!

[Ephemeral]

I'm finding that the majority of people who are complaining about the changes are people who don't/can't play any other ships. In game if I get cloaked more than 2-3 times by the same person I usually switch to lanc and hunt them into submission drawing annoying and incessant complaints in my pm about how I have no life, am a huge nerd, etc all the while they have like a 350-25 rec cloaking people in spawn. The people that play these 2 ships play them because they want (need) some sort of edge, whether it being completely invisible so they can shoot you without getting shot at back or being able to kill loads of people at the same time from light years away. Now these people are upset because they cannot lame everybody in sight and are forced to actually get good at a ship to compete with the general masses. I for one love the new changes and support any moves made to encourage these people to start thinking more about the team aspect instead of just themselves so +1 for these changes.

I would also suggest giving the weasel a little more speed, 10% seems like a good number.

^^^ This.
TW has grown and supported players who specialize in ships 4 and 6 while fully knowing that they were not being used to take flag room and support team play. Now they want to get back to the original basing/take flag room intent of Pub 0 and are finding that some of these players are pissed. (This falls into the ‘no shit’ category.)

Any good solutions that will appease everyone? No. The mistake was allowing these ships to evolve the way they did and now that they have a player base trying to undo this without losing some players is probably impossible. Trying to find some watered-down pragmatic settings might retain a few of them but let’s face it; changing these ships into those which can be useful to basing, teamwork, and capturing the flag is going to end up changing them significantly.

For me the true test here is if TW has the backbone and leadership strength to stick to the objective of bringing Pub 0 back to the team-orientated game is started as. To achieve this they will have to resist the temptation give into the vocal specialized players, including a willingness to lose a few, to make these changes meaningful. This is one of those times when you simply cannot please everyone. It just sucks that TW screwed up years ago and now has to pay the price.
eph

[dofus]

Weasel
The maneuverability (speed, rotation, etc) is fine, don't change anything.

About items, it doesn't need Rocket. It can already go invisible and stalk enemy ship without worry that it can see you,
but Rocketing will just encourage laming and "hunting" specific players. Also if someone has XRadar that drains energy (Jav, Shark for example)
even if he constantly toggles it to see where you are, you can just Rocket him very fast and he won't have time to react. its lame.
You have invisibility to retreat, so don't need rocket for that too.

The problem is it can go completely invisible without any penalty, so any newb can hop in wzl and lame in spawn area and hunt Warbirds with high bounty,
it's too easy because there's no skill involved.. you just put stealth and cloak on and slowly fly towards enemy (with Rocket = guaranteed kill).
Make it so Stealth is free, but Cloak slowly drains energy. This forces the pilot to tactically think when to fully engage invisibility, and only has limited time to kill his target before energy becomes too low to fire a shot, it gives the ship a "assassin" feel, not just a ghost that can kill anything easily and disappear.

Also WZL NEEDS XRADAR this is very important, no one likes being killed by enemy wzl because you were visible recharging energy after you killed someone. Better to give all invisible players radar and atleast they can then "duel" eachother fairly.

-Remove Rocket
-Make Cloak drain energy slowly
+Add XRadar

also about small wzl, that was a map problem not the ship problem. The map has too many holes, if you there will be small weasel, atleast remove some holes especially those in flagroom. if bouncing bullets are added the wzl should have lvl 2 bullets, not 3 or else it will be too overpowered (lvl 3 bullets flying around flagroom is basically a burst)

Leviathan
I am for the idea of this ship being a "heavier" Javelin bomber ship. It's better because think: Why do people went LT all the time? Because the Lev is so slow, has bad rotation, and is a sitting duck in spawn. That's why Levs want to attach to Terriers.

It's good to change the lev entirely: make it faster and maneuverable, so it is a solid solo-playing ship, it discourages people to go LT and actually play the Leviathan and enter base. LT is still an option but it has less effect than before because the bombing is weaker. This change was a wise decision.

The EMP is a bad idea in my opinion, it should remain unique to the shark. The blast radius is still pretty big and you can still get alot of kills in base and weaken enemy ships, even now moreso with high rotation which means easier aiming. EMP is too overpowered for Levi because you can disable energy of entire enemy team for several seconds which is crucial in flagroom battles, remove it.

Give it XRadar that drains alot of energy (so you can toggle it like Shark). Levi is still the slowest ship and if only 1 player gets mad and wants to hunt you it's GAME OVER because you will get spawnkilled by a weasel you can never see and all your fancy Repels, rockets and portals won't matter anymore against an invisible player.

-Remove EMP effect
+Make ship even a bit faster
+Give XRadar that drains alot energy

Essentially the Leviathan will be a slow Javelin without bouncing bombs, but bigger bomb radius.

[Kahlan]

We should just make ?go subroids the new pub map since that's what new people see when they look at the game anyway.

[Shaddowknight]

Have stealth + cloak actually stop regen completely, but give more speed/rotation

[Spock!]

Im an avid X player, and I personally find the new/ old Weasel boring to fly. Right now, it is too easy to pop warbirds,spiders and levis and being completely invisible in general is not much fun. (and kinda lame)

But on the otherhand, I find that the large weasel is rather ez to kill in the lanc, terr and even the Jav. Ive tried just using the cloak with the no stealth, but since it is large and slow it is pretty easy to pop me, despite my sluggish evasive maneuvers.

So, my solution would be to give the weasel more speed/rotation but in return take away the Stealth. Or we can make it so that having both Stealth + Cloak would slowly use up energy.......



Amen...

Live long and Prosper.

[Wazzaaa.nl]

give them portals, take away stealth

[LF]

I'm finding that the majority of people who are complaining about the changes are people who don't/can't play any other ships. In game if I get cloaked more than 2-3 times by the same person I usually switch to lanc and hunt them into submission drawing annoying and incessant complaints in my pm about how I have no life, am a huge nerd, etc all the while they have like a 350-25 rec cloaking people in spawn. The people that play these 2 ships play them because they want (need) some sort of edge, whether it being completely invisible so they can shoot you without getting shot at back or being able to kill loads of people at the same time from light years away. Now these people are upset because they cannot lame everybody in sight and are forced to actually get good at a ship to compete with the general masses. I for one love the new changes and support any moves made to encourage these people to start thinking more about the team aspect instead of just themselves so +1 for these changes.

I would also suggest giving the weasel a little more speed, 10% seems like a good number.

[Rab]

I've also thought the weasel is slow... maybe make it 10% faster? ... just so it can actually reach a levi to kill it.

[Vehicle]

Now that the weasel is balanced, you're starting to complain... because you can only play an overpowered ship and take the "overpowered" things the weasel had

I know this quote wasn't directed at me, but just want to say again that I don't think the weasel is balanced.

I think if you look at it objectively, the weasel is by far the least viable ship of the 8 available. Why would anyone play it with its current settings? You can spawn faster in a warbird and it's too slow to really do anything in a base.

I agree that the mini-weasel kind of defeated the purpose of basing in general but you've nerfed the ship too far. Kthx's suggestion is another viable option to make the ship more usable and I suggested a change earlier as well. These are minor changes to the ship (far less than what you did to the levi) and I think you should consider doing something, even if temporary.