AXE Poid Immediately for Abusing Staff Powers, and Axe/Punish Paradise/Sheriff

[Exalt]

http://forums.trenchwars.net/showthr...971#post861971

This thread explains everything. Poid tried covering this thread up by moving it to trash talk, but he is abusing his staff powers. Poid, Paradise, and Sheriff have all abused their staff powers to a very large degree, which is a complete embarrassment to staff as a whole, and the entire thing is destroying any and all the remaining small shreds of dignity and respect that staff have been struggling to maintain.

POID needs to be axed from staff immediately. If he is kept on after this abuse of power, it destroys not only all credibility staff has, but also shows exactly how corrupt the entire system is from top to bottom, and it also says that cheating, abusing bugs, and abusing staff powers to allow cheaters and bug abusers to get away with it. POID, Paradise, and Sheriff should never, ever have the right to be hypocrites again by warning/banning/punishing any player in trenchwars now about doing absolutely anything illegal. They have broken the MAIN RULE in trenchwars, which is NO cheating and NO abusing of bugs. This is rule #1 in trenchwars.

To allow POID to move that thread alone to cover it up for his staff buddies is atrocious and reprehensible in all forms. It is disgusting. Paradise and Sheriff willingly abused bugs in the pubbux system to make themselves "rich" in it, which is also breaking rules. As staff members, they should be held to a HIGHER standard than any regular player in this game, and due to their inability to not cheat (which MANY players in this game do not do, including me, so I find this absolutely disgraceful) they should not be staff anymore.

Also, all 3 should be banned for a period of time. POID should get the worst punishment, as he tried to cover this entire thing up, and he even posted how he didn't see how it was an issue whatsoever. To not find cheating, abusing bugs, and abusing staff powers as an issue shows the exact lack of moral character he has, and it shows he is unfit to be a staff member. He is unfit to have any staff powers whatsoever. To allow him to continue to be staff is against everything this game stands for, and it basically says that all forms of abuse and cheating are acceptable now.

Basically, if those 3 are not axed from staff and no punishment is handed down to them for what they have done, you are saying that cheating and abusing bugs is now an acceptable thing in trenchwars.

EDIT: Removing the threat part, you're right it was immature, I didn't really mean this part anyways. It was me being angry at the situation and saying that "If these players can cheat or abuse glitches/bugs for personal benefit, then we mine as well all cheat/abuse bugs for personal benefit, fuck it all" kinda deal. Yeah, that was immature, and I apologize. Turban/Eph you two are right about that.

Fix this issue Demonic/M_M God. I believe you should axe them from staff. While many players seem to believe there is no harm, no foul... I don't think honesty or trust should be something we play around with in our staff members. We should be able to trust staff members to always do the right thing for the player's benefit. It's a position of trust, and once you break that trust with dishonesty, I fail to see any legitimate reason to keep those players on as staff members. The only excuse is to say "we spent a lot of time training them" which is mainly to say you are too lazy to train someone else who is probably much more honest and transparent. The ONLY players I believe would even have a legitimate excuse to "keep on" as staff members after even minor abuse, things that affected nobody but still can be considered abusive measures from a staff member... are coders. Guys that have specific skills that are hard to find. They get a free pass so to speak simply due to their skill-set and on a "we need them to stick around" basis.

/END EDIT

I'm not saying all staff are bad, because they aren't. There are quite a few good staff members currently playing. I'm glad to call them friends even, but to let bad apples like POID off the hook should not be tolerated, and players like him ruin the reputation that staff has gained back slowly but surely with the player base. GOOD staff members like Qan/Ricko/Demonic (even if some of you disagree)/etc are going to have their reputations ruined by the bad apple that spoils the bunch. I hope you guys do the right thing here.

EDIT: Honestly, you don't need to axe paradise/sheriff maybe, as there could be mitigating circumstances, although a suspension definitely seems appropriate at the very least (although isn't one of them already suspended as it is? Or axed already? I don't know), but POID definitely should be axed for the cover-up. I find it basically an even worse crime, since he was trying to promote abuse and corruption by covering it up to save his buddies' asses. That is Abuse 101 in my eyes. Isn't that the first rule of Abusive Staff Club? To not talk about and to cover up Abusive Staff Club? We don't need terrorists in staff!

My thread got moved from "Trench Wars" to "Trash talk". Goes to show that someone doesn't like this kind of attention.

It's sad that they are trying to shut me up while I'm simply reporting current events. Goes to show how they run this game.

NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER! We won't let them bury the truth soup! I gotcha back son!

I FIGURED OUT A WAY TO CHEAT

We know. And I hope you get axed from staff and banned for cheating.

[Ephemeral]

Exalt.
I support your right to make this thread Exalt, and to voice your opinion, but it the "I will gladly get vys and everyone who used Cheat Engine and other cheat programs in the past to send ?messages to everyone that plays trenchwars" almost comes across as a threat. That isn't cool on any level.
eph

[Exalt]

Exalt.
I support your right to make this thread Exalt, and to voice your opinion, but it the "I will gladly get vys and everyone who used Cheat Engine and other cheat programs in the past to send ?messages to everyone that plays trenchwars" almost comes across as a threat. That isn't cool on any level.
eph

Look, maybe I went too far with that threat, but if staff members like Poid are allowed to abuse and cheat without punishment, than players should be able to fight back in their own way as well. You cannot have it both ways. You can't let staff members aka TW Police break the main rule of trenchwars and do illegal things, yet punish the players for doing it too by following their example.

Fine, I'll remove that part, since I don't want this game to die, but I don't like hypocrisy, and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Okay then, I editted it for you Eph. I respect what you said, and you're right. I won't lower myself to Poid's level.

[Shaddowknight]

Can I ask one thing... how is moving a thread a coverup? That's like hiding your car by parking it in your neighbor's driveway.

[Wazzaaa.nl]

Can I ask one thing... how is moving a thread a coverup? That's like hiding your car by parking it in your neighbor's driveway.

Can I ask you one thing... how is the topic soup made trash talk? Staffers abusing bugs is trash talk now?

[Shaddowknight]

Can I ask you one thing... how is the topic soup made trash talk? Staffers abusing bugs is trash talk now?

I agree, but my point is it's not really a coverup if it's still RIGHT THERE IN PLAIN SIGHT, just a different forum section.

[Wazzaaa.nl]

Poid moved the topic to the forum Trash talk,
is there any reason to justify his action?

[Exalt]

I agree, but my point is it's not really a coverup if it's still RIGHT THERE IN PLAIN SIGHT, just a different forum section.

It wasn't trash talk, so the thread being moved alone was abusive. He tried to make the thread seem illegitimate. He CHANGED THE TOPIC of the thread too, which soup had to fix again himself. It was a coverup in the only way POID knew how to cover it up in the forums, which is the Trash Talk thread.

IF nobody else posted in that thread and bumped it a million times due to it being such a big deal, then yes, it would have effectively covered it up, as not many people search the Trash Talk forum to find out about abusive staff members. It didn't work simply because everyone finds the act reprehensible, and therefore will not allow the thread to die. So.. in effect... they keep bumping the thread to keep it visible.

How don't you understand this point? Stop defending abusive staff members.

Poid edited the title because he thinks I'm trolling (staff). The purpose of this thread is to point out what's going on in Trench Wars. We shouldn't let this simply slide. Everyone needs and should know about this.

[Crescent Seal]

poid axed yet

[Crescent Seal]

http://forums.trenchwars.net/showthr...l=1#post860744

ability of foresight? check

[Exalt]

http://forums.trenchwars.net/showthr...l=1#post860744

ability of foresight? check

Rofl Cres u too pro. Crestradomus

maybe itll work this time

We can only hope Zeebs! Maybe Poid will finally get axed for his abusive ways. Time to clean house and right the sinking ship! Get rid of this cancer

[qan]

Having talked to him about it, I understand POiD's motivations a bit better than most people in regard to this situation, but that said, I think it wasn't the right call (not even from a moral standpoint, but just viewed from a basic PR standpoint) to move it to Trash Talk. It sends two messages, whether or not he meant to send them: "This is a personal attack, and doesn't deserve consideration" and "Staff abuse is not really the business of anyone but staff."

I think most of us agree that soup's thread was not primarily a personal attack, but a post made in the interest of transparency, with elements of a personal attack included (like 90% of forum posts, it seems). I don't think any staff were going to post about it -- few of any organization like to air out dirty laundry -- but once it was posted, well, it's out there, and it has to be dealt with and responded to. Fair enough.

The idea that staff abuse isn't the business of anyone but staff is arguable (from a PR standpoint) but I think false; a coverup -- or the appearance of one -- can cost staff quite a bit of credibility. It's incumbent on us all to root out abuse in this community, by players and by staff, whenever possible, whether it's someone who Weasels in pub for 15 minutes a week or someone who's been a sysop for 47 years.


I disagree that this was overtly meant to be a coverup, though. It's just POiD getting frustrated at having the whole thing dragged out into the light (understandably ... as it reflects on the Deans when such things happen), as well as some other delicate issues that can't be disclosed publicly without undermining future prevention of abuse. To say he should be axed for this particular action is perhaps not only a little unrealistic but also idealistic, in terms of the standards we set for anyone in the zone. We're all human. Keep up with that sort of zeal and we'd soon run out of heads to chop. It was a mistake, not Area 52.

Should it be a requirement that when staff members are axed for abuse, the information is made public? I think so, at least to some level ... a courtesy at least. Transparency can be a pain in the ass, it's true, and can cost in the short term, but the long game is surprisingly profitable -- for all involved.

[Exalt]

Good post Qan. I respect your opinions, and that was a very well written post. Props for the professional writing skills! That comes from an English major who is always mocked for writing paragraphs too.

While in some respect, I can say that I do understand your point in how you perceive (whether it really was his original intention, or what he proclaims was his intention after the fact) his intentions and justification for his actions, I still don't agree with it simply because it should be commonly known that any and all staff mistakes (especially abuse) will always be aired out like dirty laundry. This is a very public game, and players have always been very forthcoming and public with any and all incidents that occur within it. To say that he didn't attempt to legitimately cover it up is probably a bit misleading, due to the fact that no other intention really could be taken from it. Beyond that, any opinion of his or even staff's as a whole on whether staff abuse is staff business alone or the public's business is moot, because staff abuse always victimizes non-staff members. It very rarely victimizes staff themselves.

Basically, if you take the stance that abuse from a staff member should be a private concern within staff, it is comparable to saying that the Rodney King incident that happened with the LA Police should have been privatized and handled solely by the local police department. It's basically saying that corrupt police should not be prosecuted or scrutinized by the public that they harass, and only other police members should have the right to know about and possibly fix the issue at hand. What about the victim? What about justice? When the victim did not get to keep his ordeal private, why should we let the police officers keep their atrocious acts private? I believe it is an appropriate analogy, although maybe a little exaggerated due to comparing a brutal public beating of a victim by police to cheating in a computer game and the subsequent cover-up of that cheating to protect staff PR.

Basically, the only people that are at fault for bad staff PR are the staff members at fault: Poid, Paradise, and Sheriff. They are the problem. Soupero was not the problem. Soup had every right to attack those staff members, and he had every right to air out the dirty laundry. Those staff members abused their positions of power. They are at fault. It is staff's responsibility as a whole to police themselves from letting their members commit these acts of abuse. It is also staff's fault for hiring people like Poid who do not have the moral fortitude to not cover these things up. It is staff's fault for hiring people like Paradise or Sheriff, who have been caught abusing their power BEFORE this incident, and now have been caught doing it again. It is staff's fault for letting these people ever become staff in the first place, and then assuming that the public doesn't deserve to know their fuck ups. Beyond that, let this be a learning experience for all the rest of the members on staff. If you abuse your powers, it WILL BE AIRED OUT TO THE PUBLIC, YOU WILL BE SHAMED, YOU WILL BE MOCKED, YOU WILL BE ATTACKED, AND PEOPLE WILL NOT TAKE KINDLY TO YOUR ABUSE. Let that be a very good lesson for future morons like Poid.

I still hope to see this resolved by him being reprimanded. I'm tired of you guys letting them off the hook with their lame excuses. I'm sorry, but he did something that was abusive and wrong. I don't care what his reasoning was. It was wrong. You know this Qan. I know you want to protect other staff members, and I know you are a very understanding and patient individual when it comes to things like this, but I for one do not have patience for bad staff members whatsoever anymore. I've seen far too many of them in the last 15 years. I'm sick and tired of it. I'm tired of seeing bad hire after bad hire. I sure as hell was never given a chance at staff, but even if I ever had, I never would've abused my powers no matter what stage of my playing days I was in (that includes when I was 14 and calling everyone an EZ NEWB all the time, or even now when I'm 28 and a bit more tempered while still calling people that are faggots, well.... faggots).

I disagree that this was overtly meant to be a coverup, though. It's just POiD getting frustrated at having the whole thing dragged out into the light

Qan... read this quote again. You disagree that it was overtly meant to be a coverup, when your reasoning for disagreeing is that POid was frustrated that this wasn't being... covered up. Aka... he covered it up.

I mean... lol!

Should it be a requirement that when staff members are axed for abuse, the information is made public? I think so

At least we definitely agree with this. I do believe in all ways/shapes/forms that any and all abuse by any staff member whatsoever should be grounds for immediate termination. I'm sorry, but once you abuse your powers, you prove yourself to be completely unfit for the job. Nobody should be allowed to abuse as a staff member. It is a public trust position, and once that trust is broken, it can never be earned back.

Also, let it be another form of punishment as a deterrent for staff members to abuse their powers. Public humiliation is a perfect way to deter individuals from doing stupid, morally objectionable things with their public trust positions. Actually, I think that this should also apply to anyone on the future Council as well. While the council members are not officially staff, they are also in a position of public trust, so they should be held to a higher standard like staff are, and they should be held accountable in the same ways. They simply will not have the same powers and abilities to abuse and cheat in the game that staff members do, but they should still be held accountable due to them representing the players and being public figures.

With every form of power, there comes responsibilities that go along with it, and if someone proves they cannot handle those responsibilities, they prove that they cannot and should not be in a position of power.

[Exalt]

To say he should be axed for this particular action is perhaps not only a little unrealistic but also idealistic, in terms of the standards we set for anyone in the zone. We're all human. Keep up with that sort of zeal and we'd soon run out of heads to chop. It was a mistake, not Area 52.

I highly disagree with you here Qan. We are all human, but not all humans in power overtly and intentionally abuse that power. Not all humans who make mistakes try to lie and cheat and excuse their way into avoiding being caught. There ARE some honest individuals in the world, albeit that may not be a common trait. While there are certainly far more Joseph Stalins and Adolph Hitlers in the world than there are Mother Theresa's, that does not give anyone an excuse to be a dictator and act morally reprehensible when they are in a position of power. It gives no excuse to abuse that power and to shirk the responsibilities that come along with that power.

I'm sorry, but if any staff member abuses their position, they should not be staff. They should be axed immediately. POiD's action proves he is a liar and dishonest at the very least. It proves he has no moral character at the worst. It shows he cares more about his buddy/buddy relationships and loyalties to his fellow BAD APPLE staff members rather than the common player in this zone, the very people he should be caring about protecting. Nobody should be trying to protect someone that did something wrong and hurt the victims. Soupero was the victim in this case, while POiD took the stance that he was the aggressor. Not true at all. Paradise and Sheriff were the ones that abused, and POiD protected them by abusing further. All three are wrong, all three fucked up, and all three deserve punishment for it. To not punish them is wrong. Plain and simple.

Please explain why it is unrealistic and even idealistic whatsoever to expect these three to be axed from staff for abuse? Please, give a legitimate explanation and defense for their cases. Explain. When the common player in subspace will get banned for life for using cheat engine or abusing bugs in this game for their personal benefit, why is it unrealistic and idealistic to say that those three cheating staff members should not be punished whatsoever, should not be axed from staff, and should not be publicly humiliated for mocking and shitting on the player base with their actions? Soupero was mocked and trashed by POiD for what POiD did to him. That is acceptable to you and it is unrealistic and idealistic to expect POiD to pay for it?

[POiD]

Oh you poor ignorant fool. If I had wanted to 'cover up' the situation, I could easily have just deleted threads completely leaving no trace. Not moved and left a link in this section pointing people to the other.

As the issue had been completely handled over a day before Soupero finally had a revelation and posted, in my opinion it was old useless news. However he had gone through the effort of putting in screen shots and all so I left the thread. Based on the very first non-staff comment I read in it, it did de-escalate into a "staff abusing again" thread, which was not the case as staff was not abusing powers.

The title was edited so that it was inline with people abusing a bug, not staff abusing powers, which was how the original title read.


Exalt all your forum spam is doing is showing how much of a personal attack you are trying to make this out to be. Thank you for making that clear without me having to even respond.