Change to Racism Rules

[field]

You fking stupid motherfucking idiot ******* are being racist by letting us say only racial slurs that aren't ***/******. All you're really doing is favoring blacks (which makes no sense btw). However, I do think that u fking **** are taking a step in the right direction. Just let us say ***/*** if we want to its not a big deal.

Also I want to say that in the ensuing month or so there's going to be a gigantic spike in ppl saying racial slurs that aren't ***/****** (fking ****, man). Just bear with it and it will decrease in time.

In conclusion everyone who read this is a stupid fat fking ****** *** *** **** river****** ****-**** piece of shit.

DURKA DURKA

[Crescent Seal]

Electric Vagina> Players should not be allowed to call other players "niggers" in any subspace zone.
(Left_Eye)>Please do not use "n*g" or any variation of it. You can use racism all you want besides that.

good take home message

[Morh]

This is stupid, just like everything about the racism rules have always been. Either you allow all racism, or you disallow all. What server restrictions are you talking about any ways. I doubt the host is playing continuum?

[Wazzaaa.nl]

+1 for transparency @ bans + reasoning
where can i find these monthly reports?

but i dont understand these racism rules..
its fine to say all black men should burn irl
but not ok to say i love all niggers
how effective are you guys handling racism now?

[Jones]

I probably shouldn't be admitting this but I don't care. Right concept, completely wrong direction. We went from enforcing a long out-dated racism policy to only enforcing racism on 1 particular word as if the word itself is the source of all racism while everything else is just background noise. Beyond stupid, as the fine citizens of our zone have proven that just in the few hours since this has been in effect. So according to the new rules, I can see one of my friends and say "Ayyye my nigga/n1g/etc" and be warned/silenced for being a racist, but I can make a pub macro with "%killed is as worthless as every black man I've ever met", or play a basing game and announce "I'm picking all asians because they make good suicide pilots, and any of them that don't suicide every life will be replaced with another gook...and thats ok? How about we get away from the idea that "nig" or any variation of it it the source of all evil and instead start enforcing the racism policy on ANYBODY that skirts the rules simply by changing the words, even if they didnt say 1 of the "magic words"? Another example: Brown People = Scum should not be a name that is allowed in TW, even if it doesn't have the "N Word" in it. How this much common sense escapes some people absolutely amazes me

Also, since people can now wear swastika banners/squads/etc I assume the titty banners are ok again? [/sarcasm]

this

[Exalt]

Let's bitch and complain just because we can!!!

[Morh]

Let's kill all useless black people!

[Fusha]

Assuming there are still people on the Internet that are offended by words (??????????????), telling them to use ?obscene doesn't really work - as was pointed out in-game, it also blocks messages with words like "fuck" in it, which is, of course, ridiculous. I somehow really doubt that such people actually exist, and you can always ?ignore the more nasty cases, so this is a step in the right direction - but why the hell is "nigger" still illegal while everything else is fine? This is just silly.

[Afri]

Stop trying to enforce morality AT ALL on subspace; making sure ppl dont use #'s so they can evade ?obscene is all that's needed.

[fiS]

It is quite embarrassing to be on staff enforcing this new rule, which is limited because of the "server restrictions" - but anyway highly racist in itself. Enforce a racism rule, or don't. You can't only limit it to a certain ethnic group -- or rather: a certain word. Do you see how that's racist in itself? It hurts to see how people already, who are aware of this, are fully enjoying it. I can't imagine, like Fusha said, that people are seriously hurt over words, but that shouldn't be the reason of the change. Yes, this is the interenet, and we're in 2014. But Trench Wars has always had this racism rule and even though it was flawed and not perfect, it served the purpose. It kept people in check who were going nuts.

Having it managed by the obscene filter isn't really a solution either. "Fuck" and "Shit" are also on there, and these words get used quite frequently and have nothing to do with racism. Having the obscene filter on means that you'll easily miss out on conversations that you're interested in and that have nothing to do with racism at all.

I am not from america or canda, where apparently "sup n19s" (which is apparently only numbers now) is totally fine to say to people IRL. I can't judge that - but ever since I play TW, I haven't had an urge to insult people making use of insulting terms that involve ethnic groups (or insulting these groups without using the certain punishable words, even). Hence I don't see a need for us entirely revoking this rule except for 1 certain word. It just gives the people who were being racist all the time in pub chat, and other chats, unlimited freedom to release their crap upon others and staff can't do anything about it.

I would hate to see our pub and general chats everywhere turn into conversations where people go on about races and staff having their hands tied. We had these kind of conversations even before on a regular basis where people debate how other races are superior to others because of this and that reasons, using pretty offensive expressions or remarks - but staff was able to tone it down.

So my conclusion to that would be, as others have suggested already, have a racism rule in check, with the punishments that we have been using, but more context related than only triggering at certain words.

[Tsunami]

These are the hard pressing issues that will ensure Trench Wars and Continuum as a whole continues to exist and thrive in the future!!!!!!!!~~~~~~

Seriously, we have the general TW populous that plays TWL completely dissatisfied with the way the league is being run, record low turnout to all events and matches, and you guys want to push the public policy of desensitizing everyone to "racism"...? Not to mention the way you guys are going around it is completely asinine.

/facepalm

[Demonic]

I probably shouldn't be admitting this but I don't care. Right concept, completely wrong direction. We went from enforcing a long out-dated racism policy to only enforcing racism on 1 particular word as if the word itself is the source of all racism while everything else is just background noise. Beyond stupid, as the fine citizens of our zone have proven that just in the few hours since this has been in effect. So according to the new rules, I can see one of my friends and say "Ayyye my nigga/n1g/etc" and be warned/silenced for being a racist, but I can make a pub macro with "%killed is as worthless as every black man I've ever met", or play a basing game and announce "I'm picking all asians because they make good suicide pilots, and any of them that don't suicide every life will be replaced with another gook...and thats ok? How about we get away from the idea that "nig" or any variation of it it the source of all evil and instead start enforcing the racism policy on ANYBODY that skirts the rules simply by changing the words, even if they didnt say 1 of the "magic words"? Another example: Brown People = Scum should not be a name that is allowed in TW, even if it doesn't have the "N Word" in it. How this much common sense escapes some people absolutely amazes me

Also, since people can now wear swastika banners/squads/etc I assume the titty banners are ok again? [/sarcasm]

Heh you should know better, if I could I would include the n word in this policy however, its not my choice its the decision of the sever owner that that one word is enforced, and only that one word is restricted so my hands are tied.

Seems the main objection to the change is from staff? funny that lol.

I agree with looking towards context, but surely you must understand the first stage of that is stop banning people for saying the word alone without any context. That is the purpose of this change, to not ban for a word without context where you are trying to be abusive towards a player by using race. That would fall under harassment.

"Electric Vagina> Players should not be allowed to call other players "niggers" in any subspace zone.
(Left_Eye)>Please do not use "n*g" or any variation of it. You can use racism all you want besides that."

correct due to the restrictions on server you cant use a variation of that word, as I said I have no choice on that. No I am not saying racism is ok, I think people need to understand the difference between stating a word and actually intentionally trying to abuse a player via racism. It would be better if it read due to restrictions you can't use n*g or any variation of it and leave it at that.

IF a player is being intentionally harassed/abused due to race (thus racism) it will be handled as harassment, but as a lot of you have put - that isn't really anyone's intention, but get annoyed at a long silence due to basically saying hi to another black person where no offence is taken.

final 2 points - 1) Qan - yes ban durations will be published as well, that's important I think
2) Treat ?obscene as a family filter, which is identical to most of the mmorpg's out there currently, you choose to see it or you don't.

If everyone is dead against the change, I will revert this back by all means, it is my intention to try to make things easier for the players who play this game, but by all means let me know if you feel it is the wrong direction is LF put and bear in mind our only 2 choices is as it was previously, or as it is now.

[Ephemeral]

Demonic,
Any change ought to be accompanied by a justification. What impact(s) do you want or expect from these changes?

First, the racism change. Is this meant to reduce time spent on this issue? Of meant to bring some players back or keep others? Help in some way with getting new payers? Or? What justifies stirring this pot?

Next, changing transparency for bans. Frankly I think is a good idea but what I think is not relevant; same thing should apply as above. What is the justification? What impact do you want or expect will happen with this change? What are the upsides/downsides of doing this?

How do you plan to measure or otherwise determine the success or failure of these changes?
eph

[Ephemeral]

Ah, I see you just added a bit of justification, 'my intention to try to make things easier for the players who play this game'. A bit broad, can you be a bit more specific?
eph

[Demonic]

Ah, I see you just added a bit of justification, 'my intention to try to make things easier for the players who play this game'. A bit broad, can you be a bit more specific?
eph

certainly, or at least try to:

Firstly I am not saying in any form that racism is ok, its not and I think we all understand that. A ban I had to lift yesterday as an example was for the comment >> So, your a jew?. That was it, no context, no complaint for player nothing. The ban is purely for the word, from what I can attain at least. Over the years our racism policy seems to have migrated to this, meaning more bans when I don't feel those bans are all justified.

The fix I intended for this, was to remove the ability to ban a player for simply saying the word where there is no intention of racism in any form. There is no hidden agenda here, no trying to tie people up in loop holes, that is the crux of the problem. If a player feels they have been racially abused etc then the player needs to send a ?cheater so it is investigated properly. It takes the ownership and responsibility away from the bots, and puts it firmly back to staff to actually investigate any problems. Hopefully by being open, honest and providing clarity to players that will be reciprocated back to staff, leading to at least partially restoring some of the trust lost over the years and of course stop over zealous bans.

The reporting of ban figures also is with that goal in mind, we have no reason to hide that information from players (except to protect the person banning player from abuse) and therefore by us showing why we are banning, maybe we as a zone can then move forward together, and with the thought of the council in the back of my mind here, even allow that decision to be made with actual data rather then guess work.