TWD design change

[Exalt]

I won't play for any squad unless my friends are on it. If staff tries to force me into a twd squad that I don't like, I'll just quit twd.

It isn't like you actually play anyways. You are Ray Allen 2.0. I'm sure you're a great coorder when you are threatened with an axe if you don't do it, but other than that, I fail to see why you quitting would affect anyone.

Oh and, LOL I just realized... you said you wont play without friends. Now I understand why you never play :laugh:

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Since I don't wanna double post, I'll double my single post into two!

Speaking of the idea of pubbux having anything to do with TWD.. No. That's all I have to say. Pubbux is a joke. The ONLY reason I play public whatsoever at any point is to duel people, and I realized I needed pubbux to actually do that. Someone donated me $5000, and then I just kept winning (since pubbers can't duel, but it's better than actual pubbing). I won't actually ever use the pubbux, and I think ytou might have been a little stoned when you thought of this idea demonic. You usually have good ones, but this is not one of them. Btw, roster caps don't work. Captains don't wanna recruit people they don't know or aren't friends with, and players don't want to join squads they don't have friends on. Also, add in a roster cap, and you can guarentee that a ton of people won't be able to find a squad to join whatsoever, and very few people have the wherewithal to create their own squads and make them successful..

[Fork]

Heh... I'm just thinking of ways that would make me play more pub + enjoy twd more. I know Twd is about skill/ teamwork and i know anything that could affect the game could ruin the experience but ?there are things squads can buy that doesnt affect gameplay.

With this idea... I don't think i'm looking at what paint to buy to cover a damp patch on a wall (?you're referring to my idea of changing the look of pub)... i'm actually trying to address the Issues that we have: Pub needs to be more active/ twd needs to be active.

Forumla: Increasing the activity in pub will increase the overall fun in this arena= more new players sticking in pub= more players to grab for twd= increasing the fun in twd.

60-70% of players log on to play twd... not pub. This idea looks about giving those regular twd players incentive to play pub to trigger the formula above. Still i wouldnt mind squads challenging the world/ 3 squads playing in 1 match. All sorts of fun could happen but the problem is nothing ever gets trialled out ?due to lack of coders/ they are too busy. I'll stop posting now :P

[Turban]

heh, that wasn't what he was trying to tell you with his metaphor.

[Exalt]

Honestly the only solution is to get every zone to consolidate in to tw. Have the four top zones premier leagues be ran on a cycle every three months out of the year so they are played once a year and theres always a league or qualifying up for one of the four major zones. You guys are always telling us to stop being selfish and to stop playing with our friends of eight years or more yet dont blink an eye at the dozen zone owners who would rather watch the game die than consolidate players and leagues into one last zone. More players fixes twd and nothing else, its not broken. Other zones already have their own societies so its instant new squads and rivalries.

The problem is that those other zones are ran by people with egos the size of texas, but with brains the size of rhode island. They would rather go down with their already-sunk ship than merge with another zone like Trenchwars. They are pathetic pieces of trash, because they just help make this game die even faster (although whoever did the DDOS attack pretty much took care of that), but at least they can still claim irl that they are the sysop of Hyperspace and DSB and Mystic Kingdom and Metal Gear and CTF Capture the Flag and... oh wait.

Oh, and I only play trenchwars to twd/twl really too, and 99% of the time, there is either no other squad online to play, or nobody on whatever squad I'm on to play another squad. I then log off, due to having nothing interesting to do.

I used to play elim back in the old days, but of course, you guys merged elim back together because the javs were crying, and so now elim became baseelim. WB is almost never voted for, and I'm not about to sit through 10 jav matches just so I can play ONE WB game, where half the arena specs and its a 3 player WB elim match to 5. Fuck that. You guys ruined elim for all the wb players, so that is out of the question at this point. There really is nothing left for wbs to do, so it's either spec and talk to people if anyone interesting is online, or you log off. I'd like to see baseelim back in it's own arena again. Let wbs actually play the ship they want to play in elim more than once an hour.

[Ricko]

turb we keep saying the same things in terms of TWD/TWL/pub, great minds think alike.

[Exalt]

Can we do this at least? Before you focus on fucking up twdd and effectively making ship 1 completely useless, and therefore at least 1/3 of whoever is left in tw quits forever... can you remove the merged elim and make it baseelim and regular elim again? Everyone plays jav elim all the time anyways, so baseelim won't have a problem any longer with activity. The javs are the entire reason you re-merged elim in the first place. They cried for a good year about no activity, because everyone who liked javs was in .?go javs. So you removed .?go javs and merged elims together. The problem is, for anyone that actually pays attention on staff (I highly doubt any of them do, and if they do pay attention, they are javs and therefore don't care), elim has effectively been hijacked by javs. WB elim is non-existent now. I used to be able to play wb elim for hours and hours until players came online to dd, and then I'd do that. Not anymore! There is nowhere to practice wb anymore, so new players won't be able to learn either. To learn how to DD, you first need to learn how to play the ship. Where exactly can a new player who likes ship 1 go to learn that ship? Please tell me? Wbduel? That isn't a place to learn. You learn teamwork AFTER you learn how to fly the ship. You have to be good individually first. Where do wbs learn this? Javs have it in elim. Where do wbs have it? Once an hour the forced WB elim will happen and they can play the 1 other person who didn't spec? WB elim to 1???

Fuck that. Make javs go play in base elim, and let regular elim be for wbs again. If nobody wants to play wb still, then so be it. At least give us the chance. Javs far outnumber wbs at this stage in trenchwars' life, and it isn't fair that you let javs continue to ruin elim for players like me, who prefer only ship 1. I simply don't have fun in trenchwars playing ship 2, and nothing you do to force me to play it will ever change that fact. If I enjoyed the ship in 1999, I would've played it in 1999. I didn't like it then, and I still don't like it now. The same goes for everyone else that doesn't jav.

Remove the merger in elim. THEN focus on TWD. There is no point in focusing on bringing new "talent" into the TWD pool when none of those players have any opportunity to learn the ship. They simply will get destroyed 50-20 in every TWDD game (for instance) and just quit. TWD isn't a place to LEARN the ship. It's a place to learn teamwork. Elim was the place I LEARNED how to play ship 1, back in the day.

[Fork]

it's about time someone laid down the law to staff.

stop trying to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. instead of coming up with all these convoluted ideas that would effectively ruin TWD, we should rather focus on fixing what is currently broken before even considering any major additions to the game. once everything has finally settled down, that's when we can sit down together and consider any major improvements to the current twd structure. what we currently need are simple adjustments to the current rules, such as removing the twd roster limit. however, now is the wrong time to even consider any bigger projects. get your priorities straight, friends.

luckily our current head TWD op has an ounce of common sense. it seems likely that the current roster limit will be gone soon enough unless some upper staffer screws up his plans.

horray.

Ideally we should gather up opinions from regular twd players regarding what needs fixing... Then simply address these needs. You've highlighted removing roster cap... Anything else that needs fixing when this simple fix is done?

[Exalt]

Ideally we should gather up opinions from regular twd players regarding what needs fixing... Then simply address these needs. You've highlighted removing roster cap... Anything else that needs fixing when this simple fix is done?

I stick to fixing elim first and foremost. You can't get new players when those new players don't know how to play the ship. Unless of course, the only TWL/TWD we want is TWJD and TWLJ. Base and WB players have no way to learn. .?go base needs revamping to make it active, and wb needs a seperate elim again. I speak from experience. I would never have joined TWD (or squad dueled in .?go #spoon and #paladen etc before twd was created) if I never learned how to get good at the ship in elim first.

Personally, I find it ridiculous that staff haven't taken notice to the 99% jav voting in elim in the first place. Also, what's the point of that top 10 list when you never see those players actually play, at least on the wb side? They managed to play 20 games and somehow make the top 10, because they got lucky and FOUND 20 actual games (or however many it takes now to get rated) of wb to play. I've yet to have the patience to wait through 100 jav elims to play 20 wb games, 5 deaths, with 3 players max in each.

Edit: Wait, im on the council. Why am I wasting time posting on forums. I'll get this shit done myself.

[kthx]

Im on council, going to fix elim myself, beams a giant faggot. Twcouncil already mad productive on fixing the game. See this is what im saying does the council or the zone undrrstand cooperating to solve the most important things first? Who the fuck cares about elim if there are no new players to learn to play competitively there? Are you guys just going to all go your separate ways on issues on be just as fucking much of a clusterfuck as staff was before the council? This zone has no true leadership to steer the boat, were paddling in circles talking about elim and twd when we have no fucking solution to pub or advertising seriously how can you not understand this very fucking basic concept.

[cash.MONay]

This is a rare occurrence but I agree with Exalt. I highly doubt anyone cares about pubbux in this game except for the hardcore pubbers. Most of the people who play in twd/twl do not care at all.

I like kthx's idea of consolidating all of TWs population into one mega zone. But I also fear that it may take away from our league (people switching over to EG or HZ). Who knows? Worth a shot as we are the dominant population by far and everyone has much to gain.

My only concern is competitiveness. I just want to see a league which is more competitive rather than having 2 top stacked squads and 6-8 other ones who fare no chance of beating them other than a miracle. I hope the TW Council can figure out an easy to implement solution for this. We do not need squads like Play or AstroNots in which all the reject players join up. I understand you faggots want to play with your "e-friends" but we really ought to figure out how to improve this serious flaw in the game.

Finally, I just wanted to say good job and thank you to everyone who is a part of our community. This is not said enough yet criticism is rampant. Pat on the back to every one of you mofos.

[Demonic]

The problem is that those other zones are ran by people with egos the size of texas, but with brains the size of rhode island. They would rather go down with their already-sunk ship than merge with another zone like Trenchwars. They are pathetic pieces of trash, because they just help make this game die even faster (although whoever did the DDOS attack pretty much took care of that), but at least they can still claim irl that they are the sysop of Hyperspace and DSB and Mystic Kingdom and Metal Gear and CTF Capture the Flag and... oh wait.

Oh, and I only play trenchwars to twd/twl really too, and 99% of the time, there is either no other squad online to play, or nobody on whatever squad I'm on to play another squad. I then log off, due to having nothing interesting to do.

I used to play elim back in the old days, but of course, you guys merged elim back together because the javs were crying, and so now elim became baseelim. WB is almost never voted for, and I'm not about to sit through 10 jav matches just so I can play ONE WB game, where half the arena specs and its a 3 player WB elim match to 5. Fuck that. You guys ruined elim for all the wb players, so that is out of the question at this point. There really is nothing left for wbs to do, so it's either spec and talk to people if anyone interesting is online, or you log off. I'd like to see baseelim back in it's own arena again. Let wbs actually play the ship they want to play in elim more than once an hour.

Heh since TWD is fairly dead at the moment, and with the exception of twl qualification seems to remain so where are all these people who play with their friends? Secondly TWDT was reasonably popular, on and off so its not too far fetched to try to encorporate the two. As TWLM was also used a fair bit, the utilisation of pubbux (which I agree is useless) then had a purpose. Not saying what I posted would necessarily be the immediate answer or even a viable answer at all; nor do I personally think removing roster caps will have a positive impact but im not adverse to trying things. Fork made a couple of useful suggestions, which is kind of the point. A suggestion comes, people improve over the idea, and ideally you then get a better one? Surely that's the point? If I actually thought the original idea would solve TWD off the cuff I would have implemented it and not put a suggestion out.

Facts remain however:

* TWD is dead - playing with "friends" clearly doesn't work or have any impact to # of twd games.
* Removal of Roster Cap does not suggest any form of positive impact, infact chances are will just have a lot more people sitting in spec chatting instead of playing, which decreases games, which kills games quicker then happening already
* Merging zones just will not happen period, its not as if we haven't suggested the idea to other zones, most would rather die controlling their own zone, which is their choice.


Please also note: This is a discussion purely about TWD, I notice a few references to pub which is a separate issue unless we are suggesting TWD games in pub, which is not possible until the ASSS move. Elim is also a separate issue, although to exalt's point, all we have to do is put a bot in elim2 for warbirds and disable the fighter elim options, not really a change or difficult.

[beam]

twd isnt dead. its just inactive during twl every year. now that twl is over for everybody besides fierce and pandora and people can hop for games, twd has been extremely active. i agree there should be some changes for more competition and rewards for players but a complete overhaul is unnecessary.

[roxxkatt]

why not keep twd the same and just bring back twdt instead

[Turban]

demonic seems to have some misconceptions about the zone and its players.

you need to stop tunnel visioning on the active players. we simply do not have enough active players to even justify a roster limit. in fact, our current lifeline are the old players who log in twice a week to play games. those inactive players are the ones that keep the zone running. if we are going to enforce a roster limit then several of them will quit playing the game. this will lead into a drop in activity and even in population because inactive players will simply have no reason to log in. it's really as simple as that.

even if we do have our competitive leagues, this game is still mostly meant to be a casual genre. you're supposed to make friends and have fun with them, having rivalries with other squads and players and competing against them. that is what makes this game fun for some of us. you really ought to stop with this "sorry, but if you're not active then we do not need you" attitude. we damn sure do need you. without those inactive players this zone will die even faster.

unless your plan was to deliver the killing blow to the zone, then go ahead and do it.

/end of short rant

[Turban]

it's a bit premature to go saying that TWD is inactive.

TWD is actually getting more and more active now that the off season is finally starting. after the TWLD finals are over more squads will form. now is the ideal time to promote TWD activity for new players and mass recruiting them to squads while also having a fair share of inactive players rostered. roster limits prevent this from happening, but thankfully they should be removed soon enough.