Discussion appended to Basic Information thread

[Star Fox]

You should update this thread and also clear your PMs, here's my reply to your most recent one:

Sure thing, and yes it's down for everyone if you hadn't been keeping up. Everyone went to T3, then when that went down to Powerball, now everyone is in some zone I hadn't heard of until today called Omega Fire, 80+ in there. Apparently it's not part of the SSC datacenter so it's not affected, BUT the owner did receive a notice from his ISP that he was being targeted by a DDoS.

If it is a DDoS, we need to figure out what kind of DDoS it is and act accordingly. I said this in the "rip tw" thread, but if it's a SYN flood, change server settings to kill half-open sessions much faster should mitigate it. If it's low-level, need to contact the upstream provider. Of course, DoCk> probably already knows how to handle this sort of thing, but just in case.

The site was down a day or two ago; I figured it was a continuation of the DDoS that happened during TWL and gave up, but it seems like it's getting worse. Whoever is doing this is being very persistent, it doesn't seem like it will just go away/they will get bored. We need to act. The timing of this is horrible being right after TWL finals debacle. Right at a time when population falls off a cliff after TWL is going to end, this happens. Really could be the last days if we just say "we are working on it" and hope whoever is responsible for this just gets bored.

I hope PriitK doesn't have e-mail from TW blocked.

[Crescent Seal]

TWL: Tiny
TWD: Nurse.

LOL what a fail

[Exalt]

LOL what a fail

lols wow, what kind of person has that much time on their hands to be DDOSing subspace? probably the loser of twl finals


BY THE WAY: Who the fuck won the Council Elections? Where can I find out who even won? Did anyone win? Did we just vote and then nobody won a thing? Kinda confusing. Did Qan quit?

[Turban]

think the list of people will be announced after these server issues have been fixed. voting has already ended as far as i know.

[Exalt]

think the list of people will be announced after these server issues have been fixed. voting has already ended as far as i know.

Ahhh I just saw the link. I'm kinda dumb.

Speaking of which, how in the world did I get in with only 4 votes? What a lame turnout! Also, it kind of doesn't make any sense, when weak/zizzo ended with 18 and the bottem spectrum, me and sleepyjoe got in the cutoff with 4. Although I heard some people got negative votes.

[Mango.]

I just don't understand what the fuck they were thinking when they set up this voting scheme here (sorry qan). Why are players allowed to vote for every single member? I've never seen an election, or any type of poll, conducted in this manner.



Players should vote for their single favorite candidate, the candidate that they think will best represent them.

Just look at the people who got the most votes... Zizzo deserves it in my opinion, I respect him as a player, but still, hes never been a pubber, but he's still been around long enough to know something. But just look at Star Fox. Who the fuck is he? He has no history in this game, he has no real opinions. He won't change anything. The only reason he got +1 is because people don't dislike him. Nobody would've wasted their vote on him if it was their only vote. The only players that I would deem qualified are zizzo, weak, and exalt. But still, they're all primarily twd players, I can't trust their judgment when it comes to pub settings. Wazzaa, I can honestly call you my spaceship friend, but you haven't been around that long from what I remember. When it comes to the staffers on council... I think thepap knows whats best. M_M god has fucked the settings when he had the chance, he never should've made any changes. Nobody should've.

Meanwhile sleepyjoe and drosophilia have no place in this council. They have no history in this zone. They should not have the power to change this zone. They don't know what Trench Wars used to be, since they've only have a glimpse of some shitfucked settings in pub. They have no experience of what it was like in the glory days of trench wars.... before they started fucking around with lev and weasel settings... Why should they be in charge of the future of trench wars when they have no recollection of the past of it? (when it was so much better than it is now.)


I'd really like to see what the results would if remove all -1 votes...



I'm not bitching because i didn't get onto TW Council, you all probably know I don't give half a fuck. I think its fucking retarded that random no-name newbs get to make zone-changing decisions without having any clue what the fuck they're doing. Its the same old shit over and over again. Some random ass kissers keep getting put in charge of pub that just log into the zone to chat and bullshit. Its no fucking wonder you get raped by lev and weasel when you play for 5 minutes every week and don't know what the fuck you're doing.

The zone has gone way too far off track of the original TW settings. Weasel is worthless now, theres no debating that, its just a fucking shame. L3 bombs got nerfed so hard its ridiculous, they're hardly stronger than jav bombs now. Weasel and lev have been reduced to novelty ships, they can get a few lame kills, but overall theyre severely underpowered now.

This zone is still heading down (yes, down) the same path its been heading the past few years. I really hope these new councilmen look into the past, into what made trench wars great in the first place, and try to restore the settings that sustained an awesome fun pub for years and years.


I can try and be cool and pretend I don't give a shit about this zone. But I've put in well over 10k hours, as most of you probably have. Apparently I care enough to type this whole forum essay, so I hope all you trench warriors take my words into consideration in your future council meetings, and try to keep this shit alive.



Thanks if you bothered to read all of this shit,
Mango.

[Shaddowknight]

votes were on a +1/0/-1 setting, so 4 means you had 4 more people +1 compared to -1. You could have had 60 people vote +1 and 56 vote -1. Other people just had more -1 votes.

[bkgmjo]

This is how I imagine the council work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

[Ephemeral]

Truthfully I didn't understand the 'negative' vote intent; perhaps Qan can further explain the purpose of doing it this way.

But that said, and what is probably in best interest of this moving forward, having the actual full data from the voting would seem appropriate. How many people voted in total? What were the total votes for each candidate?
eph

[Turban]

i'm having a hard time shaking off my fears about this council failing miserably before actually accomplishing anything. only time will tell what will happen in the future, but currently i see a lack in both experience and knowledge overall in the tw council. problem was that there wasn't enough "quality candidates" applying for this, meaning almost anyone who applied had a great chance of making it to the first council.

can't really agree on the way we handled the voting either, but at least we learnt something once again. surely qan will give us a full run-down soon enough.

if this succeeds, perhaps the next election will have a greater number of applicants. fingers crossed.

[Shaddowknight]

Now that we finally have the player portion, I beleive some of the staff positions will be rechecked, as its been months and some people have lost interest/become busy IRL/moved departments/whatever else.

[Exalt]

i'm having a hard time shaking off my fears about this council failing miserably before actually accomplishing anything. only time will tell what will happen in the future, but currently i see a lack in both experience and knowledge overall in the tw council. problem was that there wasn't enough "quality candidates" applying for this, meaning almost anyone who applied had a great chance of making it to the first council.

can't really agree on the way we handled the voting either, but at least we learnt something once again. surely qan will give us a full run-down soon enough.

if this succeeds, perhaps the next election will have a greater number of applicants. fingers crossed.

I kind of agree with you, although I knew there was going to be an issue almost from the start, due to the negative attention this council election thing got from players like Kthx, LF, etc who basically used it as a venting tool to state how much they hate staff. I looked at it as a NEW way of doing things that might actually have a chance to work, even if it is a long shot. I kind of saw it as a new thing that wouldn't be popular at the start, because established players don't usually throw their names in the hat of things that might fail. They will join in the 2nd year though, definitely, assuming this doesn't fail so badly that is never has a chance at another election.

Honestly, I also didn't expect to be voted in either. I remember I had to urge Weak to add his name to the council list, and I did so assuming he would easily win, which was another player that would probably be voted in above me. I kind of took the approach that if I wanted this thing to succeed, I needed to put my money where my mouth was and add my name to the list, but I didn't really expect to be voted in. I'm sure I have made more enemies in trenchwars than friends over the years lol.

Anyways... my thoughts are basically to keep this thing afloat more or less and to establish ground rules for future TW Council versions. Basically, as a group of people who are starting a completely new thing, I don't think there will be a whole hell of a lot of groundbreaking changes that will occur. I kind of assume that things will be eased into it and everything will have to be ironed out more or less so that future editions can take over like staff does right now, where they are trained and made up to date on what is expected of them and how the system works in a fairly quick manner.

Basically, we are guinea pigs for better versions of the TW Council in the future. I accept that and am OK with that. Also, I never saw any rule where it is illegal to attempt to join the council a second term as well, which may help for players like Zizzo/Weak/myself/etc who might end up re-applying another year, and who could help future TW Council members learn the ropes fairly quickly.

It's a learning process, but assuming this works, I view this as a test run more or less until we get things ironed out on what is expected, how things are going to happen, and all the rest. I mean, I haven't even been contacted by anyone, so I didn't even know the results were in until demonic gave me the link lol. That being said, there isn't a TW Council chat yet, which I think would be a good starting point. Assuming the DDOS attack stops soon, that's the first order of business in my opinion. Council members need to get to know each other and find some kind of common ground. I for one don't personally know half the people on the council, and some of the members I have never seen in the game or ever heard of period. It's kind of like Mango. said about Star Fox... I have seen Star Fox before playing on Wolf, because I was in that squad for a while, but Star Fox logged in like once a week at most, and for like 20 minutes at that. I don't know about the rest of them, but I certainly never saw those players around in game. Then again, I don't spend much time in public either, so that's another issue. Obviously, the council couldn't be full of all TWD/TWL players, or it would have been biased and not well-rounded, so I am glad that players voted for some of the more... dedicated... pubbers.

I'd really like to see what the results would if remove all -1 votes...

I agree. I kind of want to see the results minus the -1 votes as well. It also is a lesson learned on the voting system. I think it needs to be overhauled a bit for future elections. I dislike the negative vote system. Either vote someone you like, or don't vote for them. Adding in negative votes just lets people be haters, and it also allowed people to give essentially 2 votes at once. They could have down voted everyone except one player, and then up voted that player. Essentially, it gives that one player +2 votes.

[bkgmjo]

I dislike the negative vote system. Either vote someone you like, or don't vote for them.

That would be the same system in use for new staffs and promotions. One plus vote is enough to get someone in a position to break stuff apparently. I suspect the same thing will happen here, since the whole thing was based on twd accounts with an annoyingly complex voting bot. Nobody really bothers making an account for unsilencing a few people in an open discussion round nobody really believes in with unclear rule in the game. A poll on forums would have been enough as it is already illegal to multi-account in them.

I still wish you elected discussers good luck on proving me wrong.

[Star Fox]

I just don't understand what the fuck they were thinking when they set up this voting scheme here (sorry qan). Why are players allowed to vote for every single member? I've never seen an election, or any type of poll, conducted in this manner.



Players should vote for their single favorite candidate, the candidate that they think will best represent them.

Just look at the people who got the most votes... Zizzo deserves it in my opinion, I respect him as a player, but still, hes never been a pubber, but he's still been around long enough to know something. But just look at Star Fox. Who the fuck is he? He has no history in this game, he has no real opinions. He won't change anything. The only reason he got +1 is because people don't dislike him. Nobody would've wasted their vote on him if it was their only vote. The only players that I would deem qualified are zizzo, weak, and exalt. But still, they're all primarily twd players, I can't trust their judgment when it comes to pub settings. Wazzaa, I can honestly call you my spaceship friend, but you haven't been around that long from what I remember. When it comes to the staffers on council... I think thepap knows whats best. M_M god has fucked the settings when he had the chance, he never should've made any changes. Nobody should've.

Meanwhile sleepyjoe and drosophilia have no place in this council. They have no history in this zone. They should not have the power to change this zone. They don't know what Trench Wars used to be, since they've only have a glimpse of some shitfucked settings in pub. They have no experience of what it was like in the glory days of trench wars.... before they started fucking around with lev and weasel settings... Why should they be in charge of the future of trench wars when they have no recollection of the past of it? (when it was so much better than it is now.)


I'd really like to see what the results would if remove all -1 votes...



I'm not bitching because i didn't get onto TW Council, you all probably know I don't give half a fuck. I think its fucking retarded that random no-name newbs get to make zone-changing decisions without having any clue what the fuck they're doing. Its the same old shit over and over again. Some random ass kissers keep getting put in charge of pub that just log into the zone to chat and bullshit. Its no fucking wonder you get raped by lev and weasel when you play for 5 minutes every week and don't know what the fuck you're doing.

The zone has gone way too far off track of the original TW settings. Weasel is worthless now, theres no debating that, its just a fucking shame. L3 bombs got nerfed so hard its ridiculous, they're hardly stronger than jav bombs now. Weasel and lev have been reduced to novelty ships, they can get a few lame kills, but overall theyre severely underpowered now.

This zone is still heading down (yes, down) the same path its been heading the past few years. I really hope these new councilmen look into the past, into what made trench wars great in the first place, and try to restore the settings that sustained an awesome fun pub for years and years.


I can try and be cool and pretend I don't give a shit about this zone. But I've put in well over 10k hours, as most of you probably have. Apparently I care enough to type this whole forum essay, so I hope all you trench warriors take my words into consideration in your future council meetings, and try to keep this shit alive.



Thanks if you bothered to read all of this shit,
Mango.

I've been around since '97, and I've seen most of the changes (I wasn't an active player the whole time) and know what's up. I'm not the best player by any means, but I've dabbled in almost every aspect of the game. Meanwhile, who are you to talk shit? Are you good at anything in the game besides fervently advocating "free speech" with your ASCII drawings, being so annoying in game that I had to add you to auto-block? I didn't expect to do as well as I did, because I know not everyone knows me, but I'm pretty certain I could do better than you.

That said, if you want my spot that badly and you can get enough people to agree with you, you can fucking have it. I applied only because I want to contribute any little bit I can to stop this game from dying, and all I remember from your application is shit about how everyone should be able to say niggers freely. But I'll leave it up to TW.

[field]

@Mango., why don't you put down one of those racist macros so people may actually take your rant seriously?

+1 for Star Fox.