NO ANTIWARP IN CENTER

[Frightful]

There has been confusion about it and Azov has been misinformed and been told to make this statement, which was not really the official stance of staff. Since lower staffers are supposed to do what upper ones say, he just did his job as lord of public relations.

So Azov is just a humble yes-man? Good thing since that's exactly what TW needed!


My name is Azov, no mind of my own
My only job is to do as I'm told
I created a title, fictitious it may be
Doesn't matter, it gives me a sense of authority
But I have no real power, so think nothing of it
I am, quite simply, staff's little puppet
I come here today, conclusions foregone
To mindlessly fight against antiwarping spawn
You may ask yourself, aside from regurgitating staff's words
What is my particular fight is in this war?
Well, you see, I often LT
I hate when spiders antiwarp me
So as a pseudo-staffer with limited power
I came up with a sob story for real staff to devour
"It disrupts the game" and "It's unfair" are excuses I used
"Antiwarp is being continuously abused"
So I pleaded to people with titles of meaning
That I can continue in spawn, peacefully greening
Once I hit twenty bounty and attach to a terr
This is when the hypocrisy appears
We fly around roof, bombing, warping, being lame
Now it is I who is disrupting the game

[Azov]

So Azov is just a humble yes-man? Good thing since that's exactly what TW needed!

Not at all. As mentioned, the players concern was brought to Beasty's attention and discussed. After which, I made a statement indicating that staff does consider antiwarp prohibited in spawn, the rule is less than clear, and enforcement inconsistent as a result. Further, we are working to clarify this rule. If anyone tells you anything to the contrary, I'd ignore it. My role is to facilitate the SysOp's and staff as a whole in speaking publicly as they direct me to so that official positions of staff can be known. My statements, as directed by them, are the official stance of staff, period. Any other opinions on the matter are simply opinions and should be accorded as much weight.

[Pardon_You]

Antiwarp rules are a grey area is more made up rule 13 bs.
Antiwarp is so bad.. u got a 3 in 20 chance of spawning next to someone if they are running it in spawn.
Its range is so huge. it takes so long to get away from it all of 3 seconds.
I think steam reviews might be a better place to complain about rule 13 and non rules becoming rules so pricks can harrass players.

[fiS]

Dear Turban, by all means I know what you mean by that this got out of proportions, and yes it did. But yet I can't let this go uncommented because it is simply false and we had this debate. Especially because this isn't about Antiwarp in spawn anymore but instead about missinformation, who said what, and false communication.

Hi Azov, thanks for letting us know that a new rule about this is now being established.
I do still think you are not well informed about TW Pub's rules. To have claimed and to still claim that Antiwarp in Spawn has *always* been prohibited as an *unwritten* rule and just not enforced is a really weak argument, I hope you understand that. As you have said, you can consider my reply as an opinion or whatever you like to, I don't care, but I have been staff for quite a while now and I also have been through exact this same discussion. As a former head of Pub, I guess ideally, as this was my task, I should be informed about pub's rules in and out - and even after I retired I have been in the loop.
As you are "just" (no offense here pls) the communication guy and I have heard the term "sysops" and "Beasty said" quite often in here, I think hearing them would be about time instead of just sending you to tell us what they said.

A former TW Sysop, recently demoted, made a statement about exact this issue in 2013. I'll quote it here. Also, to be found here on the forums, there are comments from staffers about this rule who have never before heard about it.

[...]
Izor, I don't agree with what you did, however at the time you did it, it [antiwarping in spawn] certainly was not illegal as I would suggest it wasn't something considered, I know I certainly didn't write a rule for that specific scenario. Assuming this is fixed, ie. you cant use in spawn, then this ban is now irrelevant in my eyes. [...]

To read the full post, in context: this was posted here.

The "fix" that Demonic was talking about in that post was this here:

well, the bot will now remove it if you activate it in spawn. No warning, no refund.
[...]

Posted here by our former PR guy.

This feature was quickly implemented by Wingzero and/or KrynetiX. It would remove antiwarp as soon as a spider got close to spawn with it. This feature then soon was removed again for a reason: it was STILL not made a rule, the bot just prevented it from happening. Also it was crap because LTs were harder to keep in check. And because it just removed AW without a warning but instead leaving a "scolding" note to the player using AW in spawn, even though this wasn't written down anywhere and players had no chance of knowing it.

While I was writing this I wondered why I actually care about these details. Well, you know, it's simply because you stated wrong information here while your position demands that you are being taken seriously and that you are honest. Eventually, these small details (as you can see in this very example here) backfire and you're suddenly a scapegoat for everything and a liar with intentions to betray the public (even if you're honest and this isn't the case, this is what people see you as... just try to see it from their perspective to understand me). These apparently "small" things are what makes it a whole. From past experiences I can safely say that our community likes to go apeshit over "small" things and after all this is why staff as a whole is shining in the bad light it is right now.
And of course I kind of find it a personal insult that my comment gets "labelled" not important by you even though clearly I had my reasons to point out that you were wrong in my first reply in this topic.

I think my personal opinion on the actual matter is clear.

Thanks for reading, have a good day.

[Zeebu]

what about reducing range by quite a bit? could reduce the drain too on it i suppose. reduce the range a ton but allow more thrust while its activated.

[Fork]

I think most people are going way over the top. If Azov is doing this for free why the extreme harsh critism? In a bit noone will be doing anything in fear that if they do they'll get beaten up by this bad community.

[Pardon_You]

Thank you fis for pointing out there there is no antiwarp rule and there never has been even tho several ppl on staff including Beasty have been using rule 13 to say that there is or should be.
Messing with spiders aw as it is could unbalance stuff.
its range already small vs spawn area which is huge.
Its slow and cant fire many times before being empty as is.
How about a new rule sayin its legal like it has been for 15 yrs so ppl dont get confused.

[Jerome Scuggs]

wow did it rly take us as a community this long to simply look up precedents in the form of old twforums posts

i feel dumb for not doing that day 1

[LF]

The person in charge of rules and discipline is aware of the antiwarp issue and made it clear in this thread that it will be addressed reasonably soon with a clear and concise resolution. If that doesn't happen you know who to go after (Left_Eye).

New issue that was already well known but made apparent again in this thread.... Azov and/or beasty both have no clue what they are doing. You would think as a pure pubber for 15 years beasty would know what the rules were in pub but apparently that 10 year break in the middle and spending the last 2-3 years hiding in the shadows and touching everything he should never have been touching has clouded his memory.

Conclusion: Azov is a clueless, "yes man" puppet and beasty is a clueless puppeteer. Blind leading the blind so to speak. I'm going to have a field day proving the incompetence since ya'll refuse to work WITH me

[Mango.]

How about you just make antiwarp a bit more expensive, so guys cant afford to buy it every single life.

Anti in spawn has never been illegal, just lame. Azov is a newb and a lying toolbag.

I don't think anyone here is actually opposed to such a rule, if its enforced in the right situations. And I don't think thats even the main issue in this thread.

The issue is all the powertripping mods interfering far too much in the game, pissing players off by enforcing unwritten (made up) rules. It seems that mods interpretations of the rules have gotten more and more creative recently.

[Wormhole Surfer]

Turban, by the way, your idea to not add a rule to the official rule list because it might motivate people to purposely break that rule is probably the most idiotic statement I've seen on this thread yet.

"We expect you to follow the rules, but we're not going to tell you what they are."

By the way guys, in case you're wondering, Beasty does spend a lot of time reading this thread even though he can't be bothered to reply personally.

[Turban]

i never said it shouldn't be added to the rules because of that reason? although, i do see how it could be interpret as such due to a slight misphrasing mistake.

[fiS]

Zeebu, Mango, your ideas could really help. There is a downside to every idea though because AW balances LTs, too, we shouldn't forget that. It will be up for these in charge of pub to decide.
Personally I don't think reducing range and drain would be good... Would rather stay away from playing with these spider settings.
Making AW more expensive would be ok - but how much? People with enough cash will buy it anyway, so does it really help? Unless you want it to cost 5k or more... but then which LT is worth multiple thousands assuming you don't succeed with your first purchase, which is likely.

Pressure, Eph... I understand you when you express your anger about AW in pub. But it has always been a part of pub, just as our leviathans. Pressure, I know you like the ?go base style of basing but pub will always be different. Pub is what people make out of it and what they want to play, it doesn't have these restrictions. As Turban said, different players prefer different things and no matter what topic: I doubt anyone will be ever able to make everyone happy, so one has to compromise.

It is obvious how the buy system has affected pubbing. If spiders, same as before the pubbucks system was introduced, had to buy while in safety zone, that coul already take a lot of heat: no longer spiders would be able to consequently keep AW on in base (since after death they can just attach to terr and buy it again) but instead they would have to fly to a safe in between deaths... Same with spawn area. This, as we know from the past, will not affect LT hunting much. So if the buy system doesn't get removed alltogether soon anyway, this solution should help a bit (maybe alongside making it a tad more expensive too), at least temporary as it would be an easy fix.

[the block]

I like the idea of spiders having to go to safe to buy AW. It keeps them from constantly having it on. Like fis said, most of the people who are going to bother buying AW for their spiders already have more money than they know what to do with, so cost is really no hindrance at all, even if the cost gets raised. Making them fly to a safe to buy it seems like a modest way to encourage only buying it when you really need it, not to just be annoying with it for the sake of pissing other people off.

IMO the only buy that makes any sense outside of the safety zone is for terrs to be able to buy a burst. The base terr obviously isn't going to warp out of base, fly to a safety zone, and then fly back to the flagroom just to buy a burst, as that defeats the purpose of being a base terr.

[Turban]

making antiwarp available only in safety zones would definitely be a step in the right direction, and while we are at it every other ship item should get the same treatment for balance purposes while removing super and shield from the list altogether.

no idea what the public teams plans are at the moment, and I'm pretty sure fiS is one of its members, or at the very least a contributing member. there will be official an announcement soon of some sorts.