Trench Wars Pub & Zone REVITALIZATION - Need your feedback

[Scar Trek]

Y'know, it's good to think about features that can be implemented/coded into the game. I just think that a good pub environment is most important. It's where people hang out and newcomers learn the game. If it's fun, newbs, as well as revisiting vets, may stick around. That is why I propose things like video tutorials, safe tours, active moderation, maybe a practice arena with bot instructions and quick recharge for practicing positional shots.

If pub goes, you'll only have vets do competition. And that'll slowly dwindle until the game is no more.

Also, if population goes up again, you may have 2 or 3 pub arenas going, like there used to be at one point. You could decide to have a pure basing one and allow LTing in the other. Until then it's good to have some restrictions on LT like there are now (pure pub buy). Also, not being able to buy greens anywhere on map is a disadvantage for levs (repel buys).

A good LT can have a devastating effect on basing. That makes it both fun and rewarding, but also frustrating and disencouraging for basers. But part of the problem with that is that people often aren't cooperating to set up a coordinated hunting effort. If you could set up automated messages to ask for an anti-spid, a terr, some turret ships (wb, lanc) and offer money rewards, that may push people in the right direction. We already have some automated messages and rewards now, like for baseterr, and I think that's a good thing.

Sry for double post.

[Scar Trek]

Hmm yes, maybe some useful answers could come out of a survey.

I'm not knowledgable enough on the game, different views, pros/cons etc. to make one. But I did take a scientific research class, so could take a shot at quality review before release.

To me the spontaneous arisal of a cooperative team that collectively puts its all in to win the round, is one of the most fun things about pub.

Just to emphasize the importance of positive pub vibe, needed for stuff like that to arise. Meaning sportsmanship. Negative vibe is people trying to upset each other and behavior detrimental to (the enjoyment of) the game.

I could start by setting an example myself, but isn't there more we could do?

[Jones]

oh I was just failing to be funny. however, ideas, suggestions, initiatives have been offered countless times in the past. back when there were more active coders we (players) were giving suggestions on an almost daily basis on "neat" new features to TWD and TWL.

I am grateful for the work you have put in and still do, if anything you are one of the few people who have breathed life into this zones of ours and made it more enjoyable. Unfortunately you didn't have as much of an active role back when the zone still had a respectable amount of players logging in. Back when we could easily have 12 squads even in TWLB.

That's when players still gave a damn, that's when people in higher positions in staff just made people quit. PH, Turban... both quit because of some weird in-game politics. They were probably the best TWL op's we had.

Mythril, without staff powers made TWEL Great Again. Claushouse created TSL and with help from you we can all agree that it was a success.

Back when the zone really needed to "drain the swamp" we had some guy named 'oo.oo' banning people instead of doing something useful like Mythril and Claus. Too many people on staff going on "power trips" and players had go through 5 threads of voting if we wanted resolution-limits or not. until some dipshit finally managed to push it through when most wbs stopped playing. (i'm not against res-limits these days, because of the state the zone is in, but back then it was just one facepalm after another). We never got an updated TWL website, we never got a more automated newbie-friendly baseprac arena. we just saw multiple threads of people with the best intentions going literally ape-shit at how upper staff were handling things... Reckful is a good example.

thanks tho, and sorry for the rant

[qan]

drain the swamp

Yeah, but there's no military industrial complex money here to make worth it to pull at the teat. Many things proposed require work. In many cases, bot work. At the moment that's mostly "shit qan should do." (Though definitely some other people have shown interest.) But I'm one guy and do other things with my life. I'm also getting RSI in my right wrist because I'm utterly addicted to computers.

Some of the things that have been proposed can be done by just about anyone, such as new player initiatives. Some of the things are simple policy issues, where if the majority agreed to do something (such as ban private freqs) we could agree. But that's all hardly unanimous. For example, there are very vocal people who build their TW identity around playing on a private freq. Also, a core TW value seems to be freedom of choice ... to allow maximal freedom within the confines of what allows the zone to stay alive. The balance always tilts between the opposing values of liberty vs authority, and where we draw the line is always up for debate. But ideally, we should try and operate from relative consensus. Most of the time on features or policy I have never stuck to my guns. If most of the community says it needs to change, it should change, obviously. (Well, and to be fair -- IF it's easy enough to implement. You can easily spend more time working on or coding for TW in a week than a regular full time job if you wanted to. I once quit my job and lived off my savings to code for TW. Of course, being a lazy bastard also had something to do with that, but it was a great time, too.)

I've been reading zone suggestions for a little over 10 years now, with different degrees of ability to effect those changes. (Oooh, effect as verb, yeah, I took that shot that killed Kennedy) Happy to put in anything the community clearly wants, but if it needs code, we've got to get the code for it, right? Who's going to do it? I'll do what I can with the limited time I have, but I could use help. For example, someone want to put elim or wbduel/javduel in pub? I've got a way to do it but not the interest to take several weeks to code it off and on, maybe a couple months. If you have the will to complete it and you feel you are a competent coder, please talk to me and I can help you get started.

By the way, there's a nice site I ran across at a conference, lets you vote up ideas ... jesus, took 10 minutes of searching. https://www.allourideas.org Could use something like this to figure out zone priorities. If anyone would participate... not sure if there's real interest, or if it's more satisfying to hold onto a feeling of righteous indigantion, Jonesy

[Jones]

drain the swamp

[Scar Trek]

^ I second the tking penalty going to victim idea
You're doing something to deal with tking in the absence of moderation.

Terententen mentioning fun of being on a pub team. To me the spontaneous arisal of a cooperative team that collectively puts its all in to win the round, is one of the most fun things about pub.

Also, people used to do turret terrs outside of base, spraying spid bullets and lanc spreads. You don't see that anymore. Fun times.

[Leland]

What if the -$500 penalty for TKing went to the victim(s)?

yes great idea

[Tone]

Trenchwars must change its image to survive

it must assert its high class and dignity compared to other games and reiterate that it is a place of civil discourse

We must appear like the high society elite clique that everyone wants in on, everyone wants to be a part of and feels at home and comfortable within . . . . .

[poop]

What if the -$500 penalty for TKing went to the victim(s)?

[Zeebu]

I've only been back playing for about 6 weeks now after not playing since probably early 99. I'm not sure I even played TW back then but I'll give my 2 cents. I highly doubt I'd still be playing if not for nostalgia; a lot of people are d-bags. The players don't really provide a friendly environment for newcomers.

As for the gameplay, I'm having a good deal of fun. I'm not sure what the "ideal" TW game is but basing is fun. When you get a half decent team it's fun. When you're on a team that's completely mismatched with tons of experience on 1 side and lots of rust on the other side, it's terrible. I'll enter and if it's ~8-8 i'll get in on action. If it's 3 on 3 I'll sit in spec and wait for people to show because it's nothing but spawn killing when you spawn in the base. If you don't spawn kill, you get killed. Just not fun. But if spectator mode wasn't there, I'd probably just leave and not come back until tomorrow; eventually never. The private frequencies are awful as well. Just get 2 teams and play; why do we need 6v6v1v1v3 etc...? It just makes a crappier experience. The 1s just want to cause chaos. Why do 3 people need to break off? You don't want to play with bad players? If that's the case, if you don't give people time to learn, or better yet, help them, they won't and this place may die. And then those people that just hide and snipe on their solo teams and aren't helping anyone or bringing anything to the table... Lost track of thoughts during GoT. Hope things can turn around here though, I missed a lot of time and this game can be a lot of fun.

you would have enjoyed the purepub years

i enjoyed the purepub years

[Tone]

We could always keep the new special buy - items we have now like thors and super and get word out they exist and demonstrate on video

[Tone]

We Could say that Trenchwars was inspired by the battle of Midway in World War II. Most like hero and patriot and good guys won stuff associated with stuff

[terententen]

I've only been back playing for about 6 weeks now after not playing since probably early 99. I'm not sure I even played TW back then but I'll give my 2 cents. I highly doubt I'd still be playing if not for nostalgia; a lot of people are d-bags. The players don't really provide a friendly environment for newcomers.

As for the gameplay, I'm having a good deal of fun. I'm not sure what the "ideal" TW game is but basing is fun. When you get a half decent team it's fun. When you're on a team that's completely mismatched with tons of experience on 1 side and lots of rust on the other side, it's terrible. I'll enter and if it's ~8-8 i'll get in on action. If it's 3 on 3 I'll sit in spec and wait for people to show because it's nothing but spawn killing when you spawn in the base. If you don't spawn kill, you get killed. Just not fun. But if spectator mode wasn't there, I'd probably just leave and not come back until tomorrow; eventually never. The private frequencies are awful as well. Just get 2 teams and play; why do we need 6v6v1v1v3 etc...? It just makes a crappier experience. The 1s just want to cause chaos. Why do 3 people need to break off? You don't want to play with bad players? If that's the case, if you don't give people time to learn, or better yet, help them, they won't and this place may die. And then those people that just hide and snipe on their solo teams and aren't helping anyone or bringing anything to the table... Lost track of thoughts during GoT. Hope things can turn around here though, I missed a lot of time and this game can be a lot of fun.

[roxxkatt]

shuffles didnt work in dist either

[Scar Trek]

Didn't read the entire thread, but read the first 2 pages. Trying to prevent the scattering of a limited population makes sense and arena integration into pub could lower the barrier for lazy vets like me who just hang around in pub.
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Now for some thoughts & suggestions of my own:


Importance of pub:
This is where players get started. If they have fun here, they may stick around and participate in other activities. Unfortunately, pub isn't as populated anymore, but I think bot automization for flag game is good. There have been in my opinion too many rule and arena layout changes (bot commands, how to buy greens). You learn all these levterr shots, burst spots, jav shots, etc. and then the arena changes and most of it is gone. I don't feel like putting in much of an effort anymore when things keep changing.


Good modding & healthy environment:
I've seen racist comments, bad behaviour and teamkilling going on without any repercussions from staff, even when reported. Actions need to have consequences and it is vital to have a healthy, non-toxic environment for the enjoyment of players and to welcome (and not scare off) newcomers. To do this you'd need a working roster of dedicated staff to be present in the game as much as possible.


Beginners tutorial:
The game at first, with all the different control keys, commands, chat, ships, arenas and zones can be a bit overwhelming. Kind of like you enter an airliner cockpit for the first time and have to fly the damn thing. Too many buttons, meters and whatnot. A tutorial (either in-game of video/youtube) would go a long way to introducing players to the game step by step, so they don't get put off by the complexity.


This is in fact a vital mechanism that game developers know very well. Many games introduce you playfully to its mechanics step by step. Gradually you master the game and you feel yourself improving, creating a positive feedback loop.


Safe tours for newbs:
Expanding on the tutorial thing: this guy took me on a tour once, his nick was Safe Tours or something similar, terring me around pub arena. He explained stuff in a friendly, interesting way, with fun facts and humor. I don't know if he was invincible, or we just got lucky and didn't get killed, but this would be great to have, especially for newcomers. A welcoming gesture.


More events/ activities:
Makes the game feel alive and active and are fun to participate in. Preferably a variety of events, not just zombies…


Advertise:
This game could do with a better trailer to spread on social media. The current one has a nice professional looking intro with the logo, but then it doesn't look that attractive. A lot of gamers are obsessed with graphics and you need to get them over the threshold to experience the gameplay.


I've seen some great looking stuff over the years that would make for a good trailer. Supership duels (unlimited attach), donkey kong event, world wars, special arenas like mario kart, sumo, vortex etc etc and even just regular basing cool moments. Like a high speed lev shot coming in to devastate base/flagroom, a highly skillful jav duel shot/kill, a hunting party getting the LT, terr bullet warp kills, etc.


Unfortunately I never recorded any footage of that, but I know video-editing and am willing to help out if need be.
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Final comments:


I agree that restricting arena is not a good idea. If enough people are active, there's plenty of stuff going on and you can do basing, LTing or LT hunting etc., like in eralier days. Most important thing is an influx of new players and for that you need to lower barriers and get them up to speed. Make sure they have a good experience.


That said, it may be too late for this game and it'll only dwindle down further.