SSCU Gestapo

[Tigerex]

Originally posted by THE PUSHER
How many times do you people need to be reminded that you have no fucking control whatsoever over what is deemed 'appropriate language' for these forums and the zone of Trench Wars?

You can sit and try to argue this until your blue in the face, all it will get you is a big fat pile of NOTHING. The sooner all of you understand that these terms and phrases are inappropriate, the sooner we can all move on. Perpetuating this argument is a tired pasttime, one that I think everyone has outgrown after the billionth time that it's been brought up. Then again, the youth must feel the need to utilize their new found desire to run their mouths about issues they have little experience with outside of textbooks and what mommy and daddy taught them at the Klan rally. The sooner you realize you know nothing about this world, the sooner you will have learned a most valuable lesson.

If you really really need to express your racist side, I suggest you go play in the zone SSCU Klan Kastle. A zone where you can feel free to speak your mind with all the rest of the loads that should have been swallowed.

Yours in eternal disgust,

PUSH

Alternatively i can bitch and whine about the way in which an oversensitive group of staff who are so eager to use their power that they will ban you for saying "I speak hebrew". People wouldn't complain if there wasn't a problem, the sad shame is that people who have no real problem decide to make threads and complain when they are blatently wrong. This leads to a general staff belief that any complaint has no merit and consequently people begin to victimise and talk down at anyone who has a complaint about discrimination. Can anyone else see the real discrimination there? i guess Pusher Can't.

[THE PUSHER]

I'd also like to add for those of you think this is a 'free society', you may want to think again. The only rights you have here are the ones given to you by those who operate this forum and the zone of Trench Wars. You do not own any part of this game. You do not own/operate these forums. Your donations (if you were kind enough to make one) do not give you ownership in any way. Your long commitment to playing this game gives you no voice in the operational structure.

It is highly appreciated that everyone comes here to play and have a good time. But you are kickin it in someone elses playground, and that means you have to play by their rules. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. We don't need you.

(Closed Circuit to Tiger - Don't worry lad, you'll understand someday. Save a copy of this thread and come back to read it in 5 years, you'll see what I mean then.)

[Zerzera]

Someone wet my rug...

[yung]

ha ha ha Pusher.
These forums where originally stripped from CoT because he was doing the same thing you guys are doing now. Hypocrit. At least he was streight forward about it, stop being such an overbearing egotistical dickslap of a fag for a change and return to the way you where before epi gave you the oppurtunity to become a upper staffer. Don't talk to me in a condesending manner, who do you think you are? Keep moderating you tool, and shut the fuck up. For someone who's supposed to be so "different" and "unique" (Pallies dogma) you sure are a conservative fucking douche who likes to push his "power" over 14 year olds. And Oh, i find your name very offending, stop eliciting drug use and drug husseling, that is wrong, you should be The ******, on these forums.

And what playground? Your playground? What makes YOU think you have any power or say? You staffers under Priitk and DoCk> think you have any real power? Your're in someone else's playground as well my friend, don't forget it, and don't talk like you're not. The hours you spend "serving" this zone aren't shit and don't mean shit- I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU.

Talking to me about reality? In reality not only will I call you a honkey, I'd slap the shit out of your keyboard punching ass too, internet warrior. Big words you got there, some big insults, tough man, i bet you fucking run shit in your part of town. What do you mean we have no control? We are the player base, of course we have control, the changes you make effect us directly and if i dont like them im gonna let you know, understand? You have a problem with that? Take stress relief classes, tell them your TrenchWar Obligations are driving you crazy and you can't deal with all the CAPITAL letters.

I know nothing of this world? You angst-ridden vain "rebel" child of a rich family, what the fuck do you know? Go read a newspaper, it'll keep you the #1 authority on real life right?

You also turned this thread into trash talk now, so do your job, keep your mouth shut, and push the buttons necessary to move this thread there, sweetcheeks.

P.S: Well said tigerex.

P.S.S: Nothing personal Pusher, It's just that your policy sucks and so does your overall attitude. That's what I'm angry about, I'm sure you are a fine gentlemen (not a douche, altough your policy is douche).

[SEAL]

fuck it im tired of this forum

[yung]

I thought you made a pretty good post there seal, why'd you erase it?

[SEAL]

beacuse when i read your post (we probably wrote at the same time) i realised something. You and the pusher confirmed it.

We are playing in "their" garden with their tools by their rules. They have the right to alter their rules at their wiches, at any given point simply "because this garden of is my daddy and it's my birthday".

im sick and tired of staff's hypocritical behaviour. The best thing i can do is let those tools work for me while i log in the game when i please.

in micky mouse language: as long as your garden is open, ill play in your garden when I WANT TO, NOT because you alow me. It's not a priviledge to play, it's illigal to bann me over nothing. Get that straight.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

What a beautiful way to be greeted by a Wednesday morning. Oh well, time to dive in.

Originally posted by yung
These forums where originally stripped from CoT because he was doing the same thing you guys are doing now.

That's a wide swath of allegations you're throwing, there. I'd suggest you stop before you even start. There's big differences. But since I'm not even qualified to say anything on the subject, I won't.

Originally posted by yung
At least he was streight forward about it, stop being such an overbearing egotistical dickslap of a fag for a change and return to the way you where before epi gave you the oppurtunity to become a upper staffer.

There's no reason to get personal about this. None at all. Nothing of what Push said was in any ways a reckless, pointed, personal jab at anyone.

Originally posted by yung
Don't talk to me in a condesending manner, who do you think you are? Keep moderating you tool, and shut the fuck up.

For someone who wants to be able to say whatever he wants, you're setting a fine example.

Originally posted by yung
For someone who's supposed to be so "different" and "unique" (Pallies dogma) you sure are a conservative fucking douche who likes to push his "power" over 14 year olds.

First off, roll your "Pallies dogma" ideology into a tight roll, soak it in vinegar, roll it in sea salt, then insert it into your butthole. It means just about as much there as it does here. I thought we were cool again, but every now and then you just fucking lose it like you're doing right now.

Second, and this isn't just aimed at yung, but everyone: NO ONE'S TRYING TO EXERT POWER HERE EXCEPT TO ENFORCE THE (ALREADY SET IN STONE) RULES. Yes, in a perfect, Utopian, butterfly-filled world, people would self-regulate their actions and speech. But as illustrated here (forums and TW itself), some people can not make that connection. So, you have a small group of people that do their best to regulate the rest. And, for what it's worth, they've been doing a good job. If it's such a problem that people are feeling verbally repressed, how come I've played this zone for almost three years now and NEVER been warned?

"Hmmm, Conc, you raise an interesting question."

Yes, yes I do. There IS no problem here, people. Stop playing the victim and just start taking some personal responsibility.

Originally posted by yung
And what playground? Your playground? What makes YOU think you have any power or say? You staffers under Priitk and DoCk> think you have any real power? Your're in someone else's playground as well my friend, don't forget it, and don't talk like you're not. The hours you spend "serving" this zone aren't shit and don't mean shit- I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU.

The playground thing was an analogy, in case you missed it. And I don't think Push is trying to say that he, himself, has any say in the regulations of TW. We all know that the original by-laws were laid down by Priit and DoCk>. However, like I stated above, someone has to enforce these rules, otherwise they don't have any meaning as rules.

To abuse the playground analogy, didn't your school's playground have "recess monitors"? You know, you went out to recess and there were adults standing around, making sure you didn't do incredibly stupid shit like jump off the top of the slide, or beat up little Jimmy McCracken? Well, that's essentially what TW (and forum Mods) are here to do--regulate people (who they're responsible for) and make sure they don't do incredibly stupid shit because they're too thick to discern right from wrong.

And don't belittle what Push has done for TW. Push has spent more hours making this game "just a little better" than you've spent yelling pointlessly at people.

Originally posted by yung
Talking to me about reality? In reality not only will I call you a honkey, I'd slap the shit out of your keyboard punching ass too, internet warrior. Big words you got there, some big insults, tough man, i bet you fucking run shit in your part of town. What do you mean we have no control? We are the player base, of course we have control, the changes you make effect us directly and if i dont like them im gonna let you know, understand? You have a problem with that? Take stress relief classes, tell them your TrenchWar Obligations are driving you crazy and you can't deal with all the CAPITAL letters.

Physical threats on the Internet are funny as hell. Go getem, Hulkster!

Yes, the player base gets a say in this game, but ultimately not the final say. This makes sense for a lot of reasons, but the paramount one is just an extension of the point made so many times above: There's a lot of people in this community who can't regulate themselves--what makes you think they'd do a better job regulating what you can and can't do? But fuck it, right? We should just give everyone SMod and let them turn TW on and off at will. That way, we can all be equal assholes to each other. Perfect harmony.

Originally posted by yung
You also turned this thread into trash talk now, so do your job, keep your mouth shut, and push the buttons necessary to move this thread there, sweetcheeks.

I do so love the "move this thread" demands.

Originally posted by yung
P.S.S: Nothing personal Pusher, It's just that your policy sucks and so does your overall attitude. That's what I'm angry about, I'm sure you are a fine gentlemen (not a douche, altough your policy is douche).

Nice whiteout.

[yung]

pff, whatever conc
you yourself should know best the way I am -> stubborn and hotheaded.

On the other hand, I wasn't about to delete my entire reply because it took too long to write, so i added a nice P.S.S, i coulda easily deleted it without worry.

Lastly, nothing personal about pallies, we dont have problems and shouldn't... but everyone on pallies is a character (thats not a bad thing), and they usually fall within similar characteristics, so i called that a dogma, dont see the big deal in that.

In Conclusion, I know the playground thing was an analogy, I agree that not everyone can control themselves, "Monitors" are one thing, parents are another, I don't need parenting, specially not from staff. So blah blah this and blah blah that, feel free to quote and respond to every section of my reply, just promise you'll use that undying wit of yours, cuz really, 3 years, and it's still not getting old.

Oh yea, and I didn't make any physical threats whatsoever... I do not know what you are talking about, i either wrote something in a manner which you misunderstood, or you just misunderstood what I was saying. Beyond that, im not giving this much more thought or argument, it doesnt deserve it, it annoys me, stresses me out, and altogether makes the problem a larger one than it is.

Keep in mind though, that it was not me who threw the rock at Pusher, it was him who threw it at me, no matter what you say, he intended for that to be personal, and he said everything he said in the rudest most condesending tone I have yet to see on these forums. An obvious attitude change from a year ago. I'm a stubborn hotheaded asshole who is nice, at least im true to that. Others act completely different every other month, i keep my shit consistant.

"That's a wide swath of allegations you're throwing, there. I'd suggest you stop before you even start. There's big differences. But since I'm not even qualified to say anything on the subject, I won't."

^ I'm glad you keep in touch with the rest of my posts, makes me feel special, really it does. And yes, im making allegations. When CoT was stripped of the forums we where promised more freedom to say what we wanted on these boards without being silenced and banned. It started like that, and its gone down hill.

"Second, and this isn't just aimed at yung, but everyone: NO ONE'S TRYING TO EXERT POWER HERE EXCEPT TO ENFORCE THE (ALREADY SET IN STONE) RULES."

The rules have been modified and changed many a times, which is a problem, because they are modified and changed without the input or even knowledge of the public. That bot is one example, in a sense its a spy tool. There is absolutely no need for it whatsoever, it is what you would call OVERKILL.

About the belittling thing, I honestly do not think that push and many of the other staffers are god's gift to TW. There are Hundereds of people just as capable and just as willing to do what he did and what he does etc. There is nothing special to it, just like there is nothing special in "my many long years spent playing and supporting this game."

I didn't mean those as physical threats, i meant them as an example of reality. In reality, I wouldn't be having this discussion with Pusher and/or you. Just making a point of how brave people get behind a monitor, neither one of you would say any of this to my face, right? right.

There is alot to be said for being social. There is nothing wrong with getting public input on a proposition that is going to directly effect all of TW. I'm sure that if tomorrow staff outlaw'd squads for whatever reason without first asking for public opinion, u'd be pissed, and staff would be lynched with regards to flames and complaints. When they proposed to change pub map, they tried a few out, got public opinion, and the original map was kept because that was the popular opinion. That worked beautifally, I dont see why it cant apply to other aspects of the game.

"There's a lot of people in this community who can't regulate themselves--what makes you think they'd do a better job regulating what you can and can't do? But fuck it, right? We should just give everyone SMod and let them turn TW on and off at will. That way, we can all be equal assholes to each other. Perfect harmony."

It doesn't even go that far. You wanna censor? You wanan regulate? fine. Let us know exactly how you plan on doing it, what youre using to do it, and how youre gonna do it. Don't develop and intiate policy behind our backs, let us know, I personally believe we have the right too. We have just as much stock to this game as the staffers, no matter what they think. Of course everything needs a level of regulations, laws, rules, and order, but there comes a point where you get carried away and overregulate, do not tell me this newest addition is necessary. I'm not even allowed to type k-k-k on these forums. Since when is that a racial slur? I don't like the kk, they dont like me (jewish), but I dont want the abreviation of their klan name banned from use... ridiculous.

P.S: When i saw "concreteschlyrd" as last poster, i was like "meh, not again" :]

[Awesome]

where did yungLOVESyou go?

[Epinephrine]

To clarify, the racism rule is made by none other than PriitK himself. PriitK made continuum, PriitK has paid and is paying almost all of the costs for running Trench Wars. PriitK runs the zone, PriitK IS the zone.

He set the rules, and it's the job of staff to enforce these rules along with all the other things that staff needs to do. We don't all agree with every single rule, but it doesn't mean we don't enforce it.

Want an analogy? If you're speeding say 15 km/h over the speed limit on a street with absolutely no one on it in the middle of a desert where you know nothing will jump out for you to hit cause you can see both ways for kilometres and kilometres each way, and a cop who is on duty catches you speeding... Guess what? You're busted. Doesn't matter that it didn't harm anyone. Doesn't matter that it's sorta stupid. Hell the cop might think it was alright... but you know what you're still speeding and it's his job to enforce that. The cop might have signed on to protect society from murderers, or because he had civic pride but not necessarily because he thinks speeding in that situation is bad. But once he takes the job, it is his duty to make sure it is done to the best of his ability as it is laid out to him.

The rules are made by PriitK, and the rules will be enforced. Racism is not permitted in Trench Wars. People who feel like they need to be racist inside Trench Wars will be banned. Bots are a way to help automate this procedure, but like all automated systems they are not perfect. Just because they aren't perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make them or use them. We have a perfectly good staff to enforce the times when a bot can't be around.

Finally, not everything staff does requires public opinion. Indeed, Trench Wars is not a democracy. Sure people were asked for map changes, but people weren't asked when the server moved to North America. Not everything is up for a vote here, and it is up to PriitK to decided what he wants input on. Remember in Trench Wars, PriitK is the supreme leader and he can do whatever he wants to do.

-Epi

[Verthanthi]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
Yes, the player base gets a say in this game, but ultimately not the final say.

I'm not entirely sure I agree. I mean, if every player in TW said "Let me be racist or I'm fucking quiting" and then actually followed up on that, I think Priitk would relax the rules.

Of course, that won't happen since not the entirety of the player base is retarded.

[yung]

That's just fine and dandy Epi, the problem isn't when PriitK makes a change or decision (trust me, i love the man to death), it's when someone in upper staff makes that decision for him, as though they have the right to do so. Basically, they are acting as the Supreme Leaders, when they are not, leave the supreme leading, to the supreme leader... A court jester can't decide to behead the chef when the king is on vacation.

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by yung
That's just fine and dandy Epi, the problem isn't when PriitK makes a change or decision (trust me, i love the man to death), it's when someone in upper staff makes that decision for him, as though they have the right to do so. Basically, they are acting as the Supreme Leaders, when they are not, leave the supreme leading, to the supreme leader... A court jester can't decide to behead the chef when the king is on vacation.

No one in upper staff is making decisions for him... what are you talking about?

-Epi

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Since you've given me the blank check, I'll cash the fuck out of it.

Originally posted by yung
On the other hand, I wasn't about to delete my entire reply because it took too long to write, so i added a nice P.S.S, i coulda easily deleted it without worry.

Or, you could've just taken a little bit of time and re-write the parts you reconsidered. Doesn't matter how much time you spent writing the original post, authors do it all the time. It's called "revisions."

Originally posted by yung
In Conclusion, I know the playground thing was an analogy, I agree that not everyone can control themselves, "Monitors" are one thing, parents are another, I don't need parenting, specially not from staff. So blah blah this and blah blah that, feel free to quote and respond to every section of my reply, just promise you'll use that undying wit of yours, cuz really, 3 years, and it's still not getting old.

First, you're not really concluding, since there's quite a few paragraphs of stuff after this. But that's a pedantic argument. Second, the use of sarcasm here is smothering. Your writing style is *awesome*. It's influenced me to drop everything and go into a life of public service. Someday I'm going to erect a 35' statue called "The Champion of Justice" and dedicate it to your hard work pioneering freedom of speech for the spaceship game. I'll wander the West Indies and sing songs about your fanciful trips through TW with my $35 Casio keyboard. I'll sponsor little kids in their annual "Walk for the Downtrodden" in your name.

Originally posted by yung
I'm a stubborn hotheaded asshole who is nice, at least im true to that. Others act completely different every other month, i keep my shit consistant.

Consistently inconsistent, maybe. One day you're nice and joking, the next you're lashing out at anything that might say something polar to your statement.

Originally posted by yung
And yes, im making allegations. When CoT was stripped of the forums we where promised more freedom to say what we wanted on these boards without being silenced and banned. It started like that, and its gone down hill.

This is just bullshit, plain and simple. Who exactly are you talking about who has been banned and/or silenced? Because as far as I know, there's only like two people who are currently banned: Annux and poop juice. I shouldn't need to break this down (since you obviously have such a supreme grasp on forum admin activities), but I'll do it anyway since you're not getting the message:

Annux started off being able to do whatever he wanted here. No one had any problems with him until he started violating the forum policy. The same forum policy that everyone agrees to when signing up for an account. He was actually given quite a few reprieves, and kept violating. So he got banned. I don't see the mystery and/or injustice here.

Poop juice was banned for a similar cause. He was also masquerading under a different name and having long conversations with himself. And, if you want to talk about "majority rule", which you're so fond of, nobody liked him being here anyways. No big loss there.

Originally posted by yung
The rules have been modified and changed many a times, which is a problem, because they are modified and changed without the input or even knowledge of the public. That bot is one example, in a sense its a spy tool. There is absolutely no need for it whatsoever, it is what you would call OVERKILL.

I'll agree, I don't think the bot is really time well spent, but what the shit are you talking about with the rules? First, it's not staff's responsibility to take everyone individually by the hand and walk them through the policy. It's stated in black and white (for both TW and the forums) on web pages that everyone can view. Plus, wouldn't this constitute the "parenting" that you "don't need"? Secondly, I don't know about you, but when I logged into TW about 5 minutes ago, the news blurb told me about a change in TW's rules. If you need more than that to tell you about a rules change, I don't know what we can do apart from sending you a candygram.

Originally posted by yung
About the belittling thing, I honestly do not think that push and many of the other staffers are god's gift to TW. There are Hundereds of people just as capable and just as willing to do what he did and what he does etc. There is nothing special to it, just like there is nothing special in "my many long years spent playing and supporting this game."

It's guys like Push, Mythrandir, 2dragons, Bleen, castromarx, Randedl, and Epinephrine who make TW (and it's associated games/leagues/etc) what it is. People always talk about this wealth of programmers who are just itching to do stuff for TW--I don't buy it. My guess is that 99% of the people out there are just regular people who want nothing more than to blow up some spaceships every now and then. Have you ever been on upper staff, Yung? No? So how are you supporting this game? By playing it? By being a warm body connected via a keyboard and computer? Have you donated to the server fund? If so, good, but don't act like you've come here and been TW's Mother Theresa. Truth is, there is something special about these people. They have put in countless hours making this game better for you, me, and everyone.

Originally posted by yung
I didn't mean those as physical threats, i meant them as an example of reality. In reality, I wouldn't be having this discussion with Pusher and/or you. Just making a point of how brave people get behind a monitor, neither one of you would say any of this to my face, right? right.

The door swings both ways.

Originally posted by yung
It doesn't even go that far. You wanna censor? You wanan regulate? fine. Let us know exactly how you plan on doing it, what youre using to do it, and how youre gonna do it. Don't develop and intiate policy behind our backs, let us know, I personally believe we have the right too. We have just as much stock to this game as the staffers, no matter what they think. Of course everything needs a level of regulations, laws, rules, and order, but there comes a point where you get carried away and overregulate, do not tell me this newest addition is necessary. I'm not even allowed to type k-k-k on these forums. Since when is that a racial slur? I don't like the kk, they dont like me (jewish), but I dont want the abreviation of their klan name banned from use... ridiculous.

Again, no one's trying to hide anything from you--the rules are out there in plain English. But it's impossible to write iron-clad rules, because as soon as you put something down about "what words are okay (and not okay) to say", someone will be a dick about it and do something that's just outside what's stated. That's why the rules are somewhat flexible, to make room for the minority who can't help but be assholes. There's no "magic bullet" for this problem. The best thing to do is just worry about your own actions, and it's not going to be a problem. Again, I've played this zone for three years, and have NEVER been warned or banned.