Do we need more mmr hosts?

[beam]

There are more relevant threads for ideas surrounding the format of MMR, including the division of teams, but thank you for sharing your suggestions.

Once again, this thread is pointed at the number of mmr hosts, relative to volunteer applicants.

Edit: I dont fault you for that. I do hold feelings as to why I continued to hear recounts of you banning people from mmr, as you attempted to do with me when I lagged out of an mmr game in late Sept. As I mentioned before: I appreciate that you shared you would be attempting to distance yourself from mmr initiatives moving forward.

The 2 issues are tied together imo. If we don't have any sort of plan for an mmr league and no idea the direction the game mode is headed, how can we possibly know how many staff are needed to support it? If you are suggesting that a bunch of people should be brought on to host MMR while it's sitting in an eternal limbo of testing, then I disagree.

[Riverside]

The 2 issues are tied together imo. If we don't have any sort of plan for an mmr league and no idea the direction the game mode is headed, how can we possibly know how many staff are needed to support it? If you are suggesting that a bunch of people should be brought on to host MMR while it's sitting in an eternal limbo of testing, then I disagree.

Mmr on its own, without a league, has increased the number of 5v5 warbird and javelin games in TW. Weekdays and weekends (in Eastern time: evenings & nights, Sundays after noon)

My observation is that the Zones activity has benefited and increased, at the same time of games in ?go twdd3 and twjd3.

More data often lead to a more accurate and shorter period of testing.

Batching potential Volunteers to help the training process is not the purpose of this thread- it was a suggestion.


Maybe i can draw a map to help you get to the objectives of the thread, poll and (ongoing) request for individual & communal feedback?

[beam]

You need to look at things in the bigger picture. Once twl/dt are over, activity will plummet and mmr will be way less active if there is no plan for it. People are already starting to get bored with MMR and numbers are dropping because there's no real purpose or goal. Also you aren't factoring in the basic principle of scarcity increasing value. If we have 30 hosts who are constantly trying to run games, it loses whatever luster it has. An example of this would be when tourny was changed to run 24/7 because it was so popular and then didnt run a single time for like 5 years.

[Riverside]

You need to look at things in the bigger picture. Once twl/dt are over, activity will plummet and mmr will be way less active if there is no plan for it. People are already starting to get bored with MMR and numbers are dropping because there's no real purpose or goal. Also you aren't factoring in the basic principle of scarcity increasing value. If we have 30 hosts who are constantly trying to run games, it loses whatever luster it has. An example of this would be when tourny was changed to run 24/7 because it was so popular and then didnt run a single time for like 5 years.

This is your second or third forum response that centers your perspective on the impact and significance of prestige. Lol.

I dont know how prestige or scarcity fits with data collection, data analysis & systems improvement.

There are more effective ways to increase the value of games (thereby increasing the quality & quantity of games).

One example is increasing access to games. You know. More mmr hosts. More mmr games. More data.

Maybe you can share the overlying strategy that's being executed behind less games = more value?

----

If you want to explore the bigger picture, including the timing around TWL/TWDT, its noted in the MMR League Proposal thread.

There are gaps in next month, re the TWDT & TWL playoff schedules.

In this thread, I am asking others to share their perspective.

On weekday evenings and nights, I have observed that the number of players online to game is associated with whether or not there are mmr games being hosted.

The objectives of this thread:

1. For these next couple months & overall, do we want to see a few more mmr hosts, from multiple time regions?
2. Why not accept 4 active Volunteer mmr host applicants (multiple time regions), instead of relying on a couple of people to host... every day? From a short & long term POV, wouldn't that be more effective & more efficient?
3. This month, there were over 15 Volunteer mmr host applications / requests to host. This month, 2 (Mythril and Tiny) were accepted as Volunteer mmr hosts, both former Volunteer League Operators.
4. What is the criteria used to accept or reject mmr hosts and/or Volunteer TW Staff members?

[beam]

All 4 of your questions are "do you think we need new/more mmr hosts right now with the current state of the game/game mode" and my answer to that is no. If you need me to break it down and answer them 1 by 1....

1. No.
2. Because we don't need more.
3. Because we don't need more and those 2 have history on staff so it's extremely common for people to be rehired.
4. The first criteria is that we need more, which we do not.

[Riverside]

All 4 of your questions are "do you think we need new/more mmr hosts right now with the current state of the game/game mode" and my answer to that is no. If you need me to break it down and answer them 1 by 1....

1. No.
2. Because we don't need more.
3. Because we don't need more and those 2 have history on staff so it's extremely common for people to be rehired.
4. The first criteria is that we need more, which we do not.

Im glad we could get to a relevant response about this thread together.

I encourage you to vote on the threads poll.

So far, the answers I see:

10 Yes, we need/want more mmr hosts
1 No, we don't need/want more mmr hosts

[LF]

I'm coming into this fully expecting that anything I say is going to be argued but I'll try to stick to the main points.

As a whole, we do not need any more people to perform a single function. In this case, hosting MMR. Yes, Mythril and Tiny were brought on board recently to help with MMR, but both have larger ambitions of contributing to upcoming leagues as well. Both also have experience being prior staff with zero history of complaints or abuse. While those two were brought on, they are NOT the only people that have been hosting MMR. Generally, it runs between 7 and 11pm EST, starting a couple of hours earlier on weekends. Between Mythril, Tiny, Racka, beam, Dwopple, myself (sorry anybody I am forgetting) we have more than enough bodies to keep this running pretty much every night. At the absolute MOST we could use MAYBE one more just to ensure continuity, but I havent seen anything that would warrant me leaning in that direction....yet. I've even seen a few others (Warrior, Cig Smoke) step up on less common, but often enough occasions to reinforce my belief that we have MMR thoroughly covered. If/when a decision is made that we want to take on any more hosts for MMR, we have an abundance of quality names to choose from, such as Cape for example. Cape was not "declined" for any reason other than I don't think we need any more hosts.

We've run into an issue lately that when MMR is being hosted, the rest of the zone has been neglected. I'm fully aware that nobody wants to "babysit" full grown adults, but public is still the busiest arena we have and requires the most attention in terms of staff. If any of these volunteers that want 24/7 MMR would also be willing to take on a little extra responsibility to help keep the zone running as smoothly as possible, then that changes the dynamic entirely.

We sincerely need more help in maintaining the zone. That includes doing some undesirable and often thankless tasks. What we do not need is a whole slew of people who all perform the same single task.

[Riverside]

We sincerely need more help in maintaining the zone. That includes doing some undesirable and often thankless tasks. What we do not need is a whole slew of people who all perform the same single task.

What does your desire to see an increase in Staffs contributions within TW Pub have to do with increasing the number of mmr hosts, games & data?

The volunteers aren't the same within these systems. Maybe they're from a different pool of Volunteers because TWD & Pub serve different serve functions and communities within the Zone?

[Riverside]

If/when a decision is made that we want to take on any more hosts for MMR, we have an abundance of quality names to choose from, such as Cape for example. Cape was not "declined" for any reason other than I don't think we need any more hosts.

The 3 of you, Mark and Willby have a combined 7 games played in mmr games in the last 2 months. Like me, the 3 of you didn't contribute to the creation of these bots.

Why are the primary decision makers and gatekeepers for when we need more mmr hosts made by you, Willby and Mark?

Additionally,

I've read: the success of mmr leads to the neglecting of other parts of the Zone. That seems like a good reason to add support to the success.

We can address the gaps... separately, despite their intersections.

You can try a thread on TW Forums. These are different objectives that contribute to an overarching goal.

Other than TW Pub & ?go twbd (different ships & game modes!), do you mind sharing what factors you're centering when you're making decisions that impact the frequency of 5v5 warbird and javelin games within the Zone?

[Riverside]

We've run into an issue lately that when MMR is being hosted, the rest of the zone has been neglected. I'm fully aware that nobody wants to "babysit" full grown adults, but public is still the busiest arena we have and requires the most attention in terms of staff. If any of these volunteers that want 24/7 MMR would also be willing to take on a little extra responsibility to help keep the zone running as smoothly as possible, then that changes the dynamic entirely.

I dont agree with actively limiting the growth of one initiative because there aren't enough Volunteers for another initiative

in a different arena of the Zone,

for a different population of players.

[beam]

Just for the record I opened your mmr thread, saw you wanted to make jessup staff, threw up a lot, and then x'd out. You owe me a new keyboard.

[Riverside]

Just for the record I opened your mmr thread, saw you wanted to make jessup staff, threw up a lot, and then x'd out. You owe me a new keyboard.

Interesting (but not really).

A scripted response, where you've centered a person that isnt part of the discussion of this thread.

I read that the reason there was an announcement to distance yourself from mmr was centered around your experience of the negativity expressed by others.

Ill note that as interesting too (but not really).

[LeeRomeno]

Isn't MMR just a fancier version of twd ratings and theoretically improved version of twd, where borrows, disappearance of real squads and stacking have made that gameplay to something no-one cares about?
I would see MMR as always on option that is player initiated, similar to elim(enough players have !p in arena, bot then starts game), collects data and has leaderboards and maybe even some seasons with winners, all while ratings can be used to adjust twdt ratings. Always on option and alternative for those who don't pub or to whom elim is too individual.
Don't think it would work as some sort of league, but it definitely can have some cool stats /awards built upon. For example biggest rise/decline over course of time, most games, highest win% etc. Maybe even design some achievements, similar to twdt.

[Rab]

Generally, it runs between 7 and 11pm EST, starting a couple of hours earlier on weekends.

Here to remind you that USA is not the only country in the world..

That's 12am-2am start to 4am-6am finish on weekdays,
and 10pm-12am start to 2am-4am finish on weekends.

[LF]

Here to remind you that USA is not the only country in the world..

That's 12am-2am start to 4am-6am finish on weekdays,
and 10pm-12am start to 2am-4am finish on weekends.

If I thought for even one moment that there was more than a 0 percent chance of having organized games during prime "euro" hours I would make every effort to find able-bodied individuals to cover those times. MMR runs during peak "usa" times because that is when the most people are online, not because that is the only time we want to have it running. I'd much prefer an active zone that maintains a healthy population throughout the entire day but that is not reality in almost 2023