Can we lower the starting rank from 3000 to atleast 1500?

[Asteroid]

I request the joining MMR rank to be changed to 1500 instead of 3000 as we have established tons of games already and most people are below 3000 now.

Honourable mentions for TheSauce for getting his 2nd positive game in over 50 games, this would be a good base of 1500 imo

[TheSauce]

It's cute how obsessed you are with me but I'm taken, sorry to break your lonely, lonely heart. Maybe get one of your cousins in the park to make dem babies hyuh

[Cape]

The bot should sit lowest ranked players as often as possible. IMO its more incentive for them to not be shit and play their role better.

[TheSauce]

i CAN CONFIRM ITS WORKING AS INTENDED FOR LOWER RANKED PLAYERS

[qan]

Mathematically, you must start at the starting value, unless you have prior data to work from. We did have DT stars, but no translation of DT stars to MMR rating before testing began. DT stars also don't accurately evaluate "6*" players (who actually run the gamut from 1 to 6*).

Many games seed starting ratings in a new season with the past season's ratings. We could do that, but only after a reset/new season, and that wouldn't really solve the problem because many players with lower skill levels have a smaller number of games and inaccurate ratings.

Most games also have the benefit of larger populations, which means they can run qualification matches. We sometimes have trouble getting enough players to run a single match, so we decided to scrap quals, though the initial intention was to use them. Quals use rapid ratings changes for the first few matches and attempt to place players at an appropriate level. Some also mix qualifying and normal players, but place new players in lower-rating matches to see how they do and then rapidly raise them up if they do well. All are options we don't really have.

[Jessup]

The real issue is MMR Jr arena. ELO ratings were supposed to be a zone wide rating system with equal play amongst the entire spectrum of players TOGETHER. The quality of EVERY MMR Jr game is insanely bad. It never should have happened and has skewed the ratings system completely. I've said this before, but mediocre players are being pushed up in MMR Pro arenas while mediocre players are being dragged down in MMR jr arenas. I also am TOTALLY against benching lower star rated players because it again destroys ELO true ratings within the zone. If you get benched a game, the next game you should get an auto add the following game for fairness in playtimes.

I personally feel mmr jr arena was the worst idea to ever be implemented during this whole MMR experience. It makes ZERO sense and is a slap in the face to true ratings. I don't care who you are and how talented a player you really are. If you are thrown onto a team with 2 to 3 really bad players and the other team is full of good to mediocre players you are going to lose unless you go 30 plus kill games on your own. It is ruining a HUGE amount of players ratings. We need an EQUAL setting for every game throughout the player base in mmr for it to work properly.

The only fix is to reset MMR ratings and start over.

[qan]

I understand the frustration, but what you're talking about has more to do with players who are not properly rated yet and need more games played to reach a more accurate estimation of their skill range. After enough games played, their rating should be fairly accurate, and then matchmaking will arrange the teams as fairly as possible.

Any team can play any other team with MMR enabled. Grouping players with similar ratings together is exactly what every other game does when matchmaking. The one thing we don't have the population to do is run a number of qualification matches where players are placed more quickly. Instead, we have to suffer through uneven matches while their ratings adjust. Unfortunately, this often means players who are actually severely below 3000 are rated at the starting rating. But again, there's no getting away from this: everyone needs to begin at the starting rating unless past information allows you to seed ratings in a new season. Statistically, it doesn't work any other way without completely breaking the math.

A programming solution for matchmaking could involve attempting to group those with fewer games played together, but I don't have a great solution to that at the moment. It could involve a sorting algorithm that weights GP/uncertainty and rating together, reducing the starting position in matchmaking of those who haven't played much.

In the meantime, I'd suggest trying to work with less-experienced teammates, giving them pointers on how to win together as a team. It's a shame we don't have VoIP baked in to the game as that would help a lot with coordinating strategy.

[Exalt]

In the meantime, I'd suggest trying to work with less-experienced teammates, giving them pointers on how to win together as a team. It's a shame we don't have VoIP baked in to the game as that would help a lot with coordinating strategy.

qan, I think you aren't paying attention to what some of these guys are actually doing to suggest this as an idea. This only works for people that want to win. I believe some of us have lost hundreds of points playing with a very specific few players who throw every game on purpose. You say the system just isn't rating them accurately, but can they be rated below 0? I don't want to name names, but everyone who plays MMR knows who these people are regardless. They are below 1000 rating in every ship and have almost never won a game. Their presence alone turns winning teams into blowout losses. If they actually stay the entire game to play to 10 deaths, which isn't even common for many of them, it's still basically playing 3v4 or 4v5 the entire match.

I don't really know the solution to it, but I do know that these few players are so bad either through purposeful tanking or through simply being mentally challenged that they are basically automatic losses for whoever gets them on their team. It's a literal gamble to !p when you see them logged in, and they log in everyday. Many people just refuse to play at all with them there, the smart ones anyway. The dumb ones like me end up playing 15 straight games with them and losing 1000 points in a single day. I'm not talking about Jessup either.

The issue is that some of these people are so low rated that they are 1000 points lower than any other player in the game. There is no balance with that. It just makes teams so horribly uneven that there is almost no way to win without getting 30+ in a game, which is basically impossible to do every game. It can be done a few times, but you're going to lose over time in that scenario. The other issue is that since people lose/win points at the same rate and the same players play every game, teams don't switch enough, so you end up with the exact same player/nearly exact same teams over and over and over again. It's just automatic losses until that player logs off.

Is there at least some way to make teams change enough to where the same specific players aren't ending up on the same exact teams over and over again over 5 to 10 game spans? You can't say the bot wants a 50% win chance, because I've never seen that happen with these extremely low-rated players playing. It ends up a 60-40% match at best, sometimes worse. The bot is doing this, so that's the best it can do apparently with them. I'd rather the % change slightly up or down in some way and not have that player on my team every single game. If it's only 50% of the time, at least I know I have a likely chance to win 50% of my games.

[qan]

If people are intentionally throwing games, they should be banned. But even if it's not intentional and they're just not capable of winning with any team, almost guaranteeing a loss, perhaps they need to work on their skills elsewhere before they play MMR. That's not a good experience for anyone.

With a really limited playerbase, it can be challenging to create even teams, especially with extreme differences in ratings. Hosts can always override the bot's choice, though they'll need to !add/!addline rather than using the normal method. In TSL there was a slight random factor applied to each person's ratings to prevent the same matches from being made over and over, but that's currently not happening in MMR in order to simplify testing. It's something that should be done again, and is on the list. We should still be dealing with players who throw (or lose) every match, though.

[Jessup]

There is a feature now that is putting higher ranked players in one arena and lower ranked players in another arena. This is bad. We should have mmr randomly matching players in either arena evenly. Meaning guys like Racka and siaxis should be playing in jd4 as much as jd3. MMR JR twjd4 is a death trap where u spiral downward and cannot escape its clutches. We need an even zone wide rating system where the worst play with the best accordingly. The best games atm seem to be single arena games 5 vs 5 where this happens. As soon as mmr jr arena is opened in jd4 it goes to hell and is simply a roll of the dice.

[Asteroid]

For new players reading this I suggest getting atleast 5-10 laps in ?go Training

(hopefully updated soon)

[wiibimbo]

I think I've seen just about enough today.

[mean gene]

is jessup the only person complaining about this? lol..

[LeeRomeno]

is jessup the only person complaining about this? lol..

She is, without realizing she is one of those players dragging her team down. Being so bad you give negative influence on freq is very close to jessups inability to understand the concept of teamplay.
Also her hypothesis is wrong. I got pushed into Jr arena pretty much from beginning of this experiment. My rating was steady 2400-2700. A few weeks back I somehow found better form, still playing in Jr arena I managed to get my rating up to around 3100 and started getting games in main arena. Was not really because I had massive luck in getting no useless players on freq, but rather contributing better myself. But that's something jessup does not get, it's not possible for her to take any criticism.

[Jessup]

She is, without realizing she is one of those players dragging her team down. Being so bad you give negative influence on freq is very close to jessups inability to understand the concept of teamplay.
Also her hypothesis is wrong. I got pushed into Jr arena pretty much from beginning of this experiment. My rating was steady 2400-2700. A few weeks back I somehow found better form, still playing in Jr arena I managed to get my rating up to around 3100 and started getting games in main arena. Was not really because I had massive luck in getting no useless players on freq, but rather contributing better myself. But that's something jessup does not get, it's not possible for her to take any criticism.

My hypothesis is right. Players in mmr jr are dragged down due to the luck of the draw. If you got out you play at times when the player selection is better and have not played many games at all unlike me with like 300 games and 150 of those with TheSauce going 0-10 and 1-10 with 2-10 being a great game for them lol. MMR Jr is a death trap and not a true reflection of ratings. Many people who are better than you Lee are rated way lower.