5v5 warbird & javelin: do you want to see maps shrink at a certain part of the game?

[Riverside]

Cape has submitted a javelin map. ?go #tsljcape

Would you want to see it in ?go twjd3, and a similar concept in ?Go twdd3?

[Asteroid]

Yoyo

[Cape]

I'm not sure what the scope of work would be for staff to make these changes. The bot would have to close the doors at the halfway mark of match or something similar.

A map that shrinks makes sense to avoid long end games where people have to spectate.

For me, the fast format of MMR is the biggest draw.

To each their own opinion.

[Kassius]

It's not necessary in wb

[Riverside]

It's not necessary in wb

Good point.

I added other options to the poll.

[Jessup]

Is it ok to comment? What about just making games 12 to 15 minutes long? MMR seems like the strategy has naturally evolved to push the tempo and become a faster paced game then say twl or twdt is. Shortening game times would work well and help silence the grumbles of having to wait in spec for 8 minutes or something. Most games are averaging 8-12 minutes unless I was in them . 20 minutes for mmr games is just too long.

[Riverside]

Is it ok to comment? What about just making games 12 to 15 minutes long? MMR seems like the strategy has naturally evolved to push the tempo and become a faster paced game then say twl or twdt is. Shortening game times would work well and help silence the grumbles of having to wait in spec for 8 minutes or something. Most games are averaging 8-12 minutes unless I was in them . 20 minutes for mmr games is just too long.

Shortening game times can give an incentive for players to run from opponents, and play a more passive style.

Im biased as someone who likes to hold forward button. Less time can mean less time to push against players who like to run from enemy ("lure"). And a quicker incentive for a passive player that could encourage them to run.

Running for 1 min at the end of a game is a more enjoyable outcome than running 6 mins in a game.

However, it isn't a rule change that gives enough incentive to speeden the tempo of games. It could do the opposite and we could see more frequent running, imo.

[Jessup]

Hmm .. possible river.. I just wonder. Short clock times I was thinking would perhaps force teams to pick up the pace early because the clock will favor any team who does that greatly. With the 20 minute clock the entire team has the room to slow it down earlyish and drag it out. Life management with shorter clocks will have an even bigger impact on team strategy and greatly incentivize being aggressive. Also, the jav arena examples I've seen so far with box lines still allows some room to run out clocks, especially 1 vs 1 endings. I also worry about boxing down the arena size as creating a disadvantage for beast mode players who carried their teams who will suddenly find themselves 5 vs the 2 beasts in tight quarters. The 2 beasts find themselves at a huge disadvantage during tied games as soon as the box is initiated where with a more open arena with a tied score they wouldn't. Ship control skills and pro aim by beast mode players should be rewarded for carrying the game to make it close which a squeeze box will perhaps punish them.

Test both ideas or a combination of shrinking and lesser times to find out the best approach for quality games. Games ending sooner is what people seem to want the most, so whatever works. I'd love to see it all tested.

[Kim]

I was thinking the other night when sitting in Cape's map about when the bot would close the doors, because in any given moment one player could be outside the walls and could be locked out. If you warped players who were outside the doors, it could cause +1 because the bot would think the player left base.

I wouldn't mind the seemingly harsher option that warped anyone outside the doors with enough warning. Example would be like a 1 minute warning, then would count down from 5 secs. Could replicate the kind of excitement in a battle royale game type. Except you aren't dead permanently, and if you just spawned, you might not even get a +1. Just move the lvz of the countdown to the minimap corner and not cover the player as it does during the start of the round. This would require covering every tile outside the doors with an invisible door tile (?) so that it warps players outside? Unless there's a more elegant way that detects players based on positions (I'm not that map saavy).

A second option would be to warp all players of the same team to their respective sides and restart the round. It would be cleaner, but would take away from the current fight and imo, more disruptive to the flow of the game than my previous suggestion.

Most games don't last past 13 minutes, and if they do go past 15, its considered long and drawn out. My suggestion is to change the map at the 10 minute mark and test it out. 10 minutes almost guarantees the smaller map will be triggered during 95% of games played, and I'm curious if the map is playable even if its still 4v4.

[Cape]

I don't mind people getting +1's if they are stuck on outside of the walls. Its just like getting a +1 for being out of base too long. You get a warning and need to get inbounds.

If the game is 4v4 the doors should start closed.

[Rab]

You can just give everyone +1 occasionally to end the game earlier. Don't need any of this fancy shit.

[Cape]

This map is the future. No need to ban Jessups.

[RageRitual]

What about the map + closing the two entrances as well. This would prevent the whole ring-around-the-rosie that some people do. Or maybe just the middle entrance to limit the movement.

A little off topic but we could do something similar to the base map too, get rid of the mid tubes and just have flagroom + midbase + spawn. This would promote more base action and less screwing around in lower base. If we do that we could probably shorten base from 15 minutes to win to 10 or 12.

[Zeebu]

dont even make the doors close, just start restricting zones and giving +1's if you run into them, similar to if youd run out of base. might give the aggressive javs more of an advantage. now you can either kill a person or just make them run to a section that will give them a +1. so much of running is cutting off angles and bouncing off unpredictable locations. If you take away the physical doors being put up, it severely limits the pathing you can take around the base to effectively run without crossing into restricted zones. in a running person is flying towards a restricted area and is intending on changing directions, they're going to have to make a move or bounce off something before going into it. it should be more obvious what object theyre going to bounce off of.

It also gives the option for other incentives aside from a +1 death. prize something shitty for a moment like a .5 second engine shutdown or an energy deplete, maybe? will likely end in a death, but still makes the other team work for it. maybe even a brief lvz splashes up dicking with your vision.


anyways, doors that close are probably way easier and likely more effective anyway.