New MMR League Idea

[beam]

I had an idea for an MMR league and was looking for feedback. I have seen Dwopple making an attempt to revitalize base via his hype posts for mmrb, and I believe that is a good start, but I would like to see more of a push for bringing people back to wb and jav as well. We are clearly missing a competitive aspect in the zone and I would like feedback to this idea from people.

The most important thing is we can NEVER reset people's MMR ratings. This includes people changing alias, resets between seasons, resetting on the end of "beta". Resetting people's MMR ratings will undo over a year of balancing. With that being said, we need to implement a second rating system purely for leagues within the current system.

The league would be ran some number of days a week, which would have to be played around with to make it available enough for people to participate in, but not too often that it causes burnout. There would be approximately 2 games of each league so wb, jav, base a day and regular MMR can continue to be ran as often as people would like. Teams would be made using your current MMR ratings and winning or losing would not contribute to your MMR rating, but your personal performance in these games will contribute to your secondary league rating following a formula similar to TSL. The leagues would be broken up into 4 seasons a year similar to Elim and the top 3 players in wb jav and some # in base (base is more complicated so that would have to be figured out with more planning) would be awarded Gold, Silver, Bronze medals on their TWD profiles. At the end of the year after 4 seasons all 12 of the players who won medals (if there's duplicate winners we could take the 4th place player in that season) to play in a championship playoff where the top 2 statistical leaders of the year would be captain and select their teams of the medal winners throughout the year and winning team would receive an additional all star medal for winning that game.

Ideally we could line these MMR seasons up with other leagues like DT or TWL etc so it's not a hassle trying to get people online as they would be playing in those other leagues already.

Again if anything strikes out as being unreasonable, any input is appreciated. This is just my initial thoughts on a fun way to make MMR more interesting and I am very open to any feedback and improvements or questions if I can clarify anything.

[Rab]

You spent all night trolling Dwopple's basing event.
And months before that trolling mmrj.
So I can't take you seriously.

[beam]

You spent all night trolling Dwopple's basing event.
And months before that trolling mmrj.
So I can't take you seriously.

thank you for your input

[LeeRomeno]

beam the zone-killer, who allowed you to come up with some idea?

[J-B-Inc]

MMR Killed twd

[beam]

As an update to this I offered to manually do literally everything to make this league work since I have a good amount of time currently and staff said they would rather have nobody run an mmr league and let the arena rot than have me volunteer my time to help the zone so unfortunately this will likely never happen.

[Cape]

We need a league that takes high level TWL matches (all players in-game rated 9+) and makes them a common occurrence.
Optimally, we'd have a rating system that rewards more points for wins in matches where the average player rating is higher. Otherwise it'll just become a grind.

If top level players are interested in playing multiple high-level dick swinging piss matches, then an MMR league would be awesome.
It should be hosted once a week, and the secondary MMR rating should reflect your tier rating.

Personally, if I was a mid tier/low tier player, I'd rather play in games with no 10*s so there is more opportunity to do well and gain confidence.

So to summarize. An MMR league works if top players want to play vs each other and test their SS IQ, ability and luck. The secondary MMR rating should reflect your rating in high,mid and low tier games.


Something like that. I dunno. Thanks for trying Beam, we definitely need some sort of MMR league in the future.

[qan]

As an update to this I offered to manually do literally everything to make this league work since I have a good amount of time currently and staff said they would rather have nobody run an mmr league and let the arena rot than have me volunteer my time to help the zone so unfortunately this will likely never happen.

No, Dwopple and I actually talked about it a fair bit. It didn't end in anything happening, but gears are turning. IIRC you can't code, beam. If you want to code, that is great, but ideas alone need fucking saturation of detail. People who can do things aren't your slaves just because you can't do them.

Negotiating technology vs utility, probably the easiest thing is to do comp vs casual. Current rating being casual. And then using that to seed comp, possibly. To play comp, you'd need a group in a reasonable range of your skill level. We need people of the same skill level playing one another, whether that's low, mid, high or ebin. That's what pushes competition forward, to be that +1 of the people who are near you in ability.

TWL-level players could decide on a time that works for them and run games, for instance. So could anyone else. Would need a queuing system expanded beyond our concept, which is just trying to get X players together.

If this worked, ideally the normal way to play would be to open the game and immediately queue. You might play pub/javs/etc while you wait, but then you jump into a game. (Or you stick around pub if it doesn't work out. That's fine.) We could absolutely modernize, but also we're still playing a game that doesn't allow you to use the mouse inside it in 2023, and it would be a lot of work and nobody's paid.

[beam]

Nice try Qan acting like you guys aren't the problem. The fact is when I pitched the idea to Dwopple I offered to run literally everything myself manually because I'm aware that none of you dev guys have a ton of time or desire to spend the limited time you have on a game that none of you log on or play. I needed 0 support from you or anyone really I just requested the bare minimum of being able to type !start to the mmr bot and was refused. I told dwopple my hope was that after running it manually for a season that you would be motivated to come out of your hibernation of 15 months with 0 mmr progress to automate some of the things I was doing manually once i had a proof of concept, but that was never a requirement for me to run the league.

[Jessup]

MMR ratings were a great idea, but it is a broken system now that shouldn't ever be used to quantify teams off of. The "rerole" travesty implemented, the rage quits, the purposeful team kills and game throws along with the awful low population game lines have allowed ratings to become a jumbled mess not reflective of anything truly specific. I still support mmr but think it should be cleared and restarted.

PS. Bring back TWD

[qan]

Nice try Qan acting like you guys aren't the problem. The fact is when I pitched the idea to Dwopple I offered to run literally everything myself manually because I'm aware that none of you dev guys have a ton of time or desire to spend the limited time you have on a game that none of you log on or play. I needed 0 support from you or anyone really I just requested the bare minimum of being able to type !start to the mmr bot and was refused. I told dwopple my hope was that after running it manually for a season that you would be motivated to come out of your hibernation of 15 months with 0 mmr progress to automate some of the things I was doing manually once i had a proof of concept, but that was never a requirement for me to run the league.

Seems like you bailed on this idea before you started, for some reason. I had to convince you to post this thread. Dwopple thinks the idea is great, and some others are on board. But things move slowly. If you want them to move faster, grease those wheels. If you're having trouble getting bot powers back (maybe had something to do with your attitude last time? You're kind of a punkass), partner with an existing host, and run your manual as proof of concept. You don't need anyone's permission, so don't ask for it. Just do it.

[beam]

Seems like you bailed on this idea before you started, for some reason. I had to convince you to post this thread. Dwopple thinks the idea is great, and some others are on board. But things move slowly. If you want them to move faster, grease those wheels. If you're having trouble getting bot powers back (maybe had something to do with your attitude last time? You're kind of a punkass), partner with an existing host, and run your manual as proof of concept. You don't need anyone's permission, so don't ask for it. Just do it.

I realize that you have extremely poor social skills and similar to Tower like to use long drawn out paragraphs with useless filler words to try and sound intelligent, but even a guy like you has to know it is impossible to run an MMR league without being able to at a minimum operate an MMR bot. You can try to shift blame all you want but nobody here is dumb enough to think this is not entirely on you and your team. You can go ahead and admit you'd rather let the zone die than let me have the ability to type !start, and that's fine you are in charge and have the authority to run the zone into the ground but I will absolutely not let you act like you aren't kneecapping the vast majority of people offering to volunteer at this stage of the game and causing a downward spiral.

[qan]

I realize that you have extremely poor social skills and similar to Tower like to use long drawn out paragraphs with useless filler words to try and sound intelligent, but even a guy like you has to know it is impossible to run an MMR league without being able to at a minimum operate an MMR bot. You can try to shift blame all you want but nobody here is dumb enough to think this is not entirely on you and your team. You can go ahead and admit you'd rather let the zone die than let me have the ability to type !start, and that's fine you are in charge and have the authority to run the zone into the ground but I will absolutely not let you act like you aren't kneecapping the vast majority of people offering to volunteer at this stage of the game and causing a downward spiral.

I don't decide who gets MMR powers. I decide very little of what happens in Trench Wars these days. You seem to think it's some top-down dictatorship. (It has been somewhat that way in the past, so I can understand why you'd think that, but one of my long-term goals has been progressively hobbling the role of sysop.)

Have you tried talking to anyone who's currently hosting? If you've angered someone in the past, maybe start off with an apology. I don't remember why you were removed from staff, but I think it was along the lines of "does not play well with others." I remember you saying to me that you were honestly surprised we let you be staff. If you've adjusted your attitude, maybe things will be different between you and those who would stand in the way of you getting back MMR powers.

You absolutely could run a league without powers, though. It would be much more of a hassle, and you would need to work tightly with someone else to make it happen, but there's nothing in there that'd require you to actually run the bot.

As for the dig at my diction: people talk in different ways. There's no right one. It's communication. I'm not putting on a pretense. People are different, and you need to get over yourself.

[Rab]

see post #2