[DISCUSSION] Proposed changes to MMR/league/week schedule

[Dwopple]

NOTE: THIS IS A DISCUSSION AND NOT AN OFFICIAL CHANGE. THE CURRENT TARGET FOR AN OFFICIAL CHANGE IS THIS SUNDAY AFTER TWDT MATCHES COMPLETE.

Here is a proposed change to the weekday MMR schedule. The goal of this change is to improve the quality of matches during the most-active times and encourage lower-rated players to maintain a minimum MMR to participate without completely blocking/targeting specific players.

Key:

Label	Description
MMR - Open	Open to all registered MMR players; Players can vote in a !poll for d/j/b MMR
MMR - 1500+	Players with a minimum rating of 1500 MMR can !p for the match type (duel/jav only); Players can vote in a !poll for d/j/b MMR - rating limit only applies to wb/jav
MMR - 2000+	Players with a minimum rating of 2000 MMR can !p for the match type (duel/jav only); Players can vote in a !poll for d/j/b MMR - rating limit only applies to wb/jav
MMR - 2500+	Players with a minimum rating of 2500 MMR can !p for the match type (duel/jav only); Players can vote in a !poll for d/j/b MMR - rating limit only applies to wb/jav
WED. NIGHT BASING	Time block for MMRB; No !poll or MMR restrictions

For context, the https://www.trenchwars.org/mmr/ site shows which players fall under each minimum MMR. At the time of writing, there are 5 players who fall under 1500 MMRD and 17 who fall under 1500 MMRJ.

~70 players who fall under the 2500 MMRJ and ~50 who fall under the 2500 MMRD (most competitive MMR 2-hour timeslot on Tuesday & Thursday)
~50 players who fall under the 2000 MMRJ and ~20 who fall under the 2000 MMRD (1-hour timeslot on Tuesday & Thursday)

During the MMR - Open timeslots, all players should be striving to achieve and maintain a minimum rating of 1500 to be able to play without restriction for the majority of the week. Again, the goal of this is to hold all players accountable for their participation in MMR and how they contribute to the match quality for other players. Failure to maintain a 1500 MMR in each league will exclude players who aren't taking MMR seriously or aren't putting in the effort to improve.

OPEN FOR DISCUSSION!

[beam]

As a player who gives my absolute all every single time I take the pitch to maintain my 3000 rating and strive for nothing short of perfection I am all for setting these limitations to get rid of the feeders/pubbers/trolls/etc. Great idea Dwopple!

[Rab]

Apart from Saturday it doesn't change anything for EU. I think the limits need to be for whole days, it isn't right that USA ppl get a better quality of life than EU ppl.

I don't really think all the different limits are needed, just limit some days to 1500+, maybe Fri,Sat,Sun to begin with.

[cubone]

Would be nice to implement some statistics to aid in banning people who are either extremely bad or clearly throwing games. Something quick I came up with to look at people who have shot less than 15 times in a round or went out in less than 5 minutes:

Sorted by % of games with < 15 shots fired:



Sorted by % of games out in less than 5 minutes:

[Dwopple]

Apart from Saturday it doesn't change anything for EU. I think the limits need to be for whole days, it isn't right that USA ppl get a better quality of life than EU ppl.

I don't really think all the different limits are needed, just limit some days to 1500+, maybe Fri,Sat,Sun to begin with.

Since MMRJ is the most-active, those 17 players under the 1500 limit are quite frequently the difference between playing and not playing. What are your thoughts looking through this lens? I understand where you're coming from, but is there an overwhelming preference where EU / early NA MMR players would rather not play if there aren't enough 1500+ MMR players?

The different limits (2000+ and 2500+) are targeted towards higher-skilled players to get their higher-competition/"better" match-quality fix in. This can be adjusted based on how the player base respond to it, much like the (now-scrapped) TWD blocks and (successful) Wednesday Night Basing blocks.

I'm not entirely against set days of Fri, Sat, Sun, however, I don't believe that will bring enough consistency to the player base to enjoy weeknight MMR and retain higher-skilled players.

[Rab]

is there an overwhelming preference where EU / early NA MMR players would rather not play if there aren't enough 1500+ MMR players?

Yes I would rather not play than play with shitters. I think that's what everyone has been saying.

On the weekend there's plenty of 1500+ people, which is why I mentioned those days as good days to start limiting. If the shitters are going to play any time let it be during the week when their attendance might be useful. (tbh I'd just ban them, but w/e).

It's basically the same thing as saying it should be legal to not play jd4 - because there's no way of knowing which arena you're getting put in when you !p - I'm sick of getting put in jd4 and needing 30 kills to overcome shitters. It ruins the whole concept of mmr when wins/losses are nothing to do with how you play. I lost 1k jav rating this twdt season despite playing better than when I earnt that rating to begin with, always 3 morons on the team going 2-10. Rather just quit the game.

[LeeRomeno]

I would look at it this way, maybe one of the reasons why those players are difference between having a game or not is one of the reasons better players do not bother showing up at EU times. I would say 90% of games at EU time involve at least 1 if not 2-3 of the players mentioned. So top players rather not play or do something else as having those players in will automatically lower the quality of game and make it less enjoyable.

[apt]

Would be nice to implement some statistics to aid in banning people who are either extremely bad or clearly throwing games. Something quick I came up with to look at people who have shot less than 15 times in a round or went out in less than 5 minutes:

Sorted by % of games with < 15 shots fired:



Sorted by % of games out in less than 5 minutes:

I love stats. Thanks.

Anyways I support this clause. I'll get my jav up above 2500 MMR soon. maybe. neways thanks for the charts.

[Dwopple]

Apart from Saturday it doesn't change anything for EU. I think the limits need to be for whole days, it isn't right that USA ppl get a better quality of life than EU ppl.

I don't really think all the different limits are needed, just limit some days to 1500+, maybe Fri,Sat,Sun to begin with.

For more data behind your proposal, here's the last 2 months of TWD (including MMR) matches. Red arrows are Saturdays.


Again, though... restricting the 1500+ limit to F/Sat/Sun still leaves the weekday as a vet-deterrent.

[Rab]

That graph isn't remotely representative of EU activity.

I agree with Lee. The lack of quality control makes people not log on.

On weekends it's popular enough to push the bottom half into jd4, which is actually lower quality than the times when there's only jd3. I just log off.

[Grasps]

MMR is cancer for TW. Just get rid of it and allow TWD to rebound. I have yet to have a single MMR game that was remotely as good or as fun as when playing a TWD match. Don't get me wrong, it has all the necessary components for success but it's without soul. Plus, I just can't get over the fact that points are only awarded for wins. You can go 20-5 and if your team loses, you still walk away with negative points. It doesn't value your time or your dedication. The whole thing seems like a lost cause and all I see it doing is nothing but bad for the zone's health. It needs to go back to the drawing board I think.

[cubone]

MMR is cancer for TW. Just get rid of it and allow TWD to rebound. I have yet to have a single MMR game that was remotely as good or as fun as when playing a TWD match. Don't get me wrong, it has all the necessary components for success but it's without soul. Plus, I just can't get over the fact that points are only awarded for wins. You can go 20-5 and if your team loses, you still walk away with negative points. It doesn't value your time or your dedication. The whole thing seems like a lost cause and all I see it doing is nothing but bad for the zone's health. It needs to go back to the drawing board I think.

Not sure where people get the idea that TWD was thriving until MMR came along. People were lucky to get 3s and usually needed borrows for a full game. Also, maybe it's not necessarily ideal to only base it on wins/losses, but if you go by rec, you reward people who hide and lob to the detriment of their team. At least you offered some solutions to go with your criticism. You gotta hate when people knock something without any ideas as to how to improve the thing they're knocking.

[Jessup]

MMR is cancer for TW. Just get rid of it and allow TWD to rebound. I have yet to have a single MMR game that was remotely as good or as fun as when playing a TWD match. Don't get me wrong, it has all the necessary components for success but it's without soul. Plus, I just can't get over the fact that points are only awarded for wins. You can go 20-5 and if your team loses, you still walk away with negative points. It doesn't value your time or your dedication. The whole thing seems like a lost cause and all I see it doing is nothing but bad for the zone's health. It needs to go back to the drawing board I think.

This is true! MMR is really bad and abuse is rampant too with purposeful throws, teamkills and host abuse.

How about we make squads based off ratings like we do in twdt except make it for TWD. We could make new teams every month or something so it doesn't get stale. Even have little mini playoffs and stuff to make competition better.

[LeeRomeno]

MMR logic overall is, that once you reach your average rating, the amount of games you win or lose will be pretty much the same for everyone. So at some point both Ease and stinging metal will win 50% of their games. For those, who have played many games, this is already happening. For example stinging has won 6 out of last 10 wb games and 4 out of 10 jav ones. He has gotten wins with scores like 1-10, 2-10 etc. At the same time ease has won only 3 of his last 10 jav games.
MMR concept is to provide 2 equally skilled freqs and competitive games without much hassle. This means at times someone will go 20-10 and lose, because how the frequency was put together by bot. So in essence it is totally different from twd concept, where very strong team can theoretically go for a year without losing a match. Unfortunately pre-mmr, squads were still pretty much dead and setting up a game needed at least 2 squadleaders to be present and challenge/accept. At least for euro timezone, mmr has done miracles, there is pretty much some games every evening vs periods of weeks, where nothing apart from elim was going on.
Biggest problem MMR has is that with low population, it is frustrating for top vets to carry their teams over and over again, this is where continous leagues come into play, where they can play on better quality freqs. Second issue is aliasing and throwing games, last can be solved by extensive bans, first one needs clear set of rules. 3000 rating for aliased bad player means very lopsided freq.