Hmm, an idea

[lil mo fo]

Yah um...I seen a shit load of typing from people which i don't really feel like reading So I say just leave it sounds a lil too high maintainance to perfect that n such.

[JacKieChan>]

Exactly

I'm not sure what you're saying. All you do is take (total kills)/(time played). I assume it wouldn't be hard for the bot to record how long each person was actually in the game. It would really only be accurate though if the stats were recorded so it could keep track of kpm over a large number of games. Like Sleepy weasel has gotten 10,000 kills in 1,000 minutes of playing spider so he has 10 kpm, while Mattey has 1000 kills in 1,000 minutes of playing spider so he's at a lowly 1 kpm.

It actually would be the most accurate way to get a stat on how many killls each player gets in spider, it's just a question of whether anyone cares or not. A lot more useful than kpg, because then if someone only plays like 5 minutes of a game their average is destroyed.

Exactly. Kpm would be great for better spider averages. B/c you nailed it right on the mark...anything less than a full game distorts the stats. Kills per game is flawed unless it ONLY uses full games.

Now kpm for only used for mvp would be interesting but pointless. Like, I could be subbed into a match in jav for only a few mins and go kill crazy in a FR fight milking the N-im-E. And then get mvp b/c i have a crazy high kpm for only a few mins. But then say Lunch has 30k in total point. Who should get mvp?

So It'd be cool for all matches, ?go base, twbd, twlb to include both mvp (based on highest points) and also another kudos for the person with highest kpm. Because that would be a cool stat to see who kills the most base dupon the time they played...after the match is played, and recored in stats on the sites.

[Jason]

I'm saying it won't tell you all that much. There's too much room for one or two stellar games to totally fuck up your average. And what about ship changes? They'd fuck up the average too. I don't think a kpm stat is worth the time it would take to code into the bots.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Rand pretty much covered what I was going to reply to you with, Jerome. What's the point?

good spiders get alot of kills.

[lunch3]

I think both should be recorded, mostly because 1) mvp should be recognized, and 2) someone like me is looking to break the record in kpm....so far mine is 6.5kpm. Wanted to do it old fashioned way by getting 200 kills in a 30min bd, but with time or point race kpm would be a good substitute for others that play to break their limits.

[Sleepy Weasel]

I'm saying it won't tell you all that much. There's too much room for one or two stellar games to totally fuck up your average. And what about ship changes? They'd fuck up the average too. I don't think a kpm stat is worth the time it would take to code into the bots.

Your first point doesn't make sense. If you have stellar games your average should go up, it's perfectly fair, that's how averages work. The only way this system isn't fair is if the system was only used for 1 game to pick an MVP or something, but if it's keeping track of time and kills over every game you play it's perfectly fair if used as a sort of ranking system similar to !rank in elim and belim.


Ship changes wouldn't affect anything at all, the whole point is to determine the amount of time and kills you got during the time you played in spider in that game. If you got ship changed, lagged out, or subbed out your stats are locked until you get back into the spider. I'm pretty sure the bots are perfectly capable of knowing if a person is in the game as a spider and from there the programming is cake. Just set a recordstats flag true if the person is currently spider, mark it false if they ever get unspidered.

I think it would be a cool stat for TWL to add in to the current stats it already records. I mean if we're going to be recording and displaying stats... we might as well record and display stats that are accurate representations of how each player is doing over the season. Put a minimum like 60 minutes played limit until this stat gets displayed and it's perfectly fine.

[Jason]

I'm sure you've taken a prob and stats class, Sleepy. A few stellar games would create outliers, throwing off the mean. You could play pretty much the same all season long and then suddenly have one outrageous game. Your average would then be misrepresenting what you're capable of because of the one fluke game padding the stat. Another thing that bugs me is spids have been getting taken care of forever. They've always gotten MVP because of the "most points" system. We need to worry about other ships, and to hell with the spider.

Honestly, this stat won't do any better at showing who's the better spider than simply looking at who's consistently scoring the most points and/or getting the most kills. It's an overkill stat that will only be put to use by dudes, such as yourself and lunch3, who primarily play spid and want to have a pissing contest.

[Malladrin]

Actually the number of kills in a timed game doesn't matter at all, all that counts is that you hold flag. I don't care as much for kills in a time-race game as in a point based game for the simple reason that there is no need to do it. Keep the enemy out of flagroom and I'm happy.

[Jerome Scuggs]

im not saying it has to be the only stat. it can be used to gauge spider skill, nothing more. MVP could be a combo of TD's+kpm+flag touches, or something.

[Zerzera]

I want a mod you can install on your PC that will calculate your accuracy.
Bullets shot: 1235365
Hits: 1235365
Accuracy: 100%
Kills: 0

[Sleepy Weasel]

I'm sure you've taken a prob and stats class, Sleepy. A few stellar games would create outliers, throwing off the mean. You could play pretty much the same all season long and then suddenly have one outrageous game. Your average would then be misrepresenting what you're capable of because of the one fluke game padding the stat. Another thing that bugs me is spids have been getting taken care of forever. They've always gotten MVP because of the "most points" system. We need to worry about other ships, and to hell with the spider.

Honestly, this stat won't do any better at showing who's the better spider than simply looking at who's consistently scoring the most points and/or getting the most kills. It's an overkill stat that will only be put to use by dudes, such as yourself and lunch3, who primarily play spid and want to have a pissing contest.

I don't really care whether the stat exists or not, and I don't even like playing spider or care about my stats in it. I'm just arguing your points because they seem unfounded mathematically and based on personal feelings about not wanting the stat so you're trying to come up with some reasons about why it's a bad stat mathematically... which it's not, at least compared to the current ones we have and without getting incredibly complex in our stat keeping. That's fine if you don't like it, I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that it is an accurate stat.

Correct me if I"m wrong, it's been 2 years since I dealt with statistics, but aren't outliers typically defined as numbers that are greater than 3 standard dev's from the mean... it might even be 4? Assumming a standard dev of like 10-20, you'd have to break spider records to really produce an outlier. Say we have a 10 game season and you hit 140 kills ever game. Your kpm is 4.666 Then you play an 11th game, and break the spider record and hit 210 kills. Your kpm is now 4.87. So yes, there will be games against crappy squads that will produce potential outliers, but the exact same thing happens with the kpg statistic, which is one we currently use, and these outliers aren't going to be far enough from the mean to really mess with things an inordinate amount. Plus in a league system, everyone is going to get to play that crappy squad, so everyone has the chance of getting that 210 kill game when they play the crappy squad.

Obviously there is no perfect statistic, I'm just saying this one is better than any of the current ones we have for long term stat keeping. If you want to say it's overkill fine, a number of people would say recording any stats at all is overkill.

Now I'm going on spring break for 10 days, so I'm done here on this forum for awhile.

[Jason]

I was thinking of time race games. If you play a regular game, then you're right. The math works out fine. In a time race game though, kills are much lower, but if it's a tight game, and it gets dragged out, isn't there a chance for a few blowout games (as far as number of kills goes) that would fuck with the average?

Either way, I wanted my point to be more focused on the fact that I don't think we need the additional stat, irregardless of the math and accuracy behind it.

[bloodzombie]

I was thinking of time race games. If you play a regular game, then you're right. The math works out fine. In a time race game though, kills are much lower, but if it's a tight game, and it gets dragged out, isn't there a chance for a few blowout games (as far as number of kills goes) that would fuck with the average?

Either way, I wanted my point to be more focused on the fact that I don't think we need the additional stat, irregardless of the math and accuracy behind it.

doesn't matter how long the game is, your stat is kills per minute.. and like the name says, it's going to average how many kills you get per minute.. wheether you play 1 minute, or 40 makes no difference. which is exactly why it's a better stat than the "kills per game" stat that we currently have.

[Jason]

Yeah, you're right. Man, my brain just shut off completely yesterday. I suppose I'm just more interested in seeing stats/rating formulas put together for other ships, leaving the spider for last. I finally do realize that this stat will work though. Score one for Jerome. Maybe someone should direct FoN to this thread so he can consider working it into his time race bot?

[Randedl]

i think the important thing, basing statistic wise, is to find a way to make it so that, if your ship is changed from spider to terr halfway through, you don't have a terr average of 90-60