twSd = spider division

[RaCka]

..

[Sufficient]

?go spiderdm or something like that

I also don't think this will get off the ground bc the mods are working on Strikeball (tm) which already has a player base and ppl who are dedicated to making a Strikeball league work.

Still I think spider is the most fun ship and spiderdm is def mad fun. In terms of 2v2 or 3v3 teams, there are multiple ways to set it up.

1) Everyone gets 10 deaths (or whatever #), after that they are specced (dd style).
2) Most kills in 20 min (or some other set # of time). So no one can die out.
3) First team to get let's say 30 kills. No one can die out.

1) is currently the way twd and twl are run
2) is a way run in other zones (17th i know)
3) would be interesting way to do it ...

[Trickers]

K, I'll join with racka and we can start working on a map. That's the biggest and probably the most important step. After that, we need to talk to mods and ask for some permission rights. Once we get the map right, and people like it, it shouldn't be much of a problem from there.

What do you say Racka? Get some e-mails going, some sketches drawn and lets do it. From what is sounds like, everyone likes the plan, but they don't think it could happen. And it could.

[RaCka]

;;

[Ewan]

Kinda bringing up a dead thread, but ?go spidduel is up now with a decent enough map and what seems to be wide enough spawn areas.

[ogron]

there already is a spider league, its called TWBD.

Only the most powerful and balanced indoor and outdoor ships deserve leagues, and that's Warbirds and Javelins.

The Spider is slow, thrust is useless...it's a limited ship, where as the WB has the most manoeuverability, is fast, deadly bullets and well balanced. you can rush, run, radar, midrange, long range, and there are multiple ways of counteracting those tactics.

Spiders, you can't use thrust as a tactic, you have to stay in groups, you CAN'T fight alone, you can't kill off a group of enemy ships chasing you, its all about outnumbering and out spraying your opponent while trying to dodge the plethora of bullets fired in your general direction.

It's horrible concept, and even an indoor league is bad, it just turns into campers paradise and more limited battles.

Spider league IS TWBD, 5v5 spiders + a terr and 2 sharks. Stop whining for another one.

[lunch3]

I have to disagree, spider encompasses many things like aim, conservativation, flanking, etc. In duels spiders can tug o war a lot and one spider can take on multiples if good enough. The good spiders can easily defeat mass sprayers.

It would be a good league if they made it.

[Pan]

The league would be a great addition because its another very dependent team league. The best analogy is its a tugawar as lunch said. I am loving the spiduel map and I think it be nice if you guys add it to twd and test it.

[ogron]

I have to disagree, spider encompasses many things like aim, conservativation, flanking, etc. In duels spiders can tug o war a lot and one spider can take on multiples if good enough. The good spiders can easily defeat mass sprayers.

It would be a good league if they made it.

i agree that conservation can be a strong point in terms of spider skills, and that a skilled spider can kill an unskilled one, but I think that it is more due to the fact that a comparatively low amount of TW players use the spider, it's more of a niche, only amplified by its necessite use in TWLB.

An open-ended Deathmatch/TWDD-like arena would not work with Spiders, I just think that spraying, an inability to survive alone on the map and the limited tactics available due to the ships limitations would make it unfeasable.

Having said that, An ingenious map that can allow a single player to escape 4v1, discourage spraying yet prevent camping would make for a great spider league, which I would support. The spidduel is a good start, but it would have to be rigorously tested and I imagine some changes would probably need to be made.

This still doesnt solve the problem of one team sitting together in the spawn area raping the other teams recently deceased, I find the tactics are still limited and that 'skill' in a 5vs5 SD is easy enough to come by due to the ships limitations.

I find it also takes away time/alienates squadmembers/causes more complaining/arguing from other leagues. There is enough division amongst whether to bd, jd or dd in squads, and I think that (what would be the weakest of the 4 leagues) SD would simply aggrevate the problem and also sever what is becoming a healthy league with budding spiders (TWBD).

TWBD is already the weakest of the 3 leagues in terms of participation, but it is slowly getting better imo, and this would not help at all. Spiders is the weakest of the 3 TWEL leagues, spidduel is the weakest of the wbduel-type games, spider elim is the least played elim game, etc...

There is no surging demand for spider leagues, its a select niche that a few people like. I think the 3 leagues are fine as it is, and that spiders can get their fill from TWEL's spider division, TWBD/TWBL, the world basing cup, zombies, etc...

It could work, but the demand and benefits aren't great. Doesn't seem worth it.

[Send]

i agree that conservation can be a strong point in terms of spider skills, and that a skilled spider can kill an unskilled one, but I think that it is more due to the fact that a comparatively low amount of TW players use the spider, it's more of a niche, only amplified by its necessite use in TWLB. Actually, a fair amount of people play spiders in Trenchwars. Spiddueling is kinda like SVS, IMO, its much more complex than a wbduel. You need to dodge more bullets and catch them when their energy is low, and try to team WAY MORE.

An open-ended Deathmatch/TWDD-like arena would not work with Spiders, I just think that spraying, an inability to survive alone on the map and the limited tactics available due to the ships limitations would make it unfeasable.
The spiduel arena has a lot of obstacles and is much smaller then a normal warbird arena ?go spidduel

Having said that, An ingenious map that can allow a single player to escape 4v1, discourage spraying yet prevent camping would make for a great spider league, which I would support. The spidduel is a good start, but it would have to be rigorously tested and I imagine some changes would probably need to be made.Camping isnt looking effective in spidduel in any way, not a lot of good areas you can just shoot a straight line of bullets at without someone coming beside you and killing you, and handling a 4 vs 1 is almost impossible, but 3vs 1s and 2 vs1s seem possible, just dodge a few bullets (since spid bullets are slow) and kill them when they're at low energy

This still doesnt solve the problem of one team sitting together in the spawn area raping the other teams recently deceased, I find the tactics are still limited and that 'skill' in a 5vs5 SD is easy enough to come by due to the ships limitations. I've played spidduel about 10 times today and I've only been spawned once. I like the idea of how you're mostly only spawned near the perimeter of the arena. I don't think spawning is a problem

I find it also takes away time/alienates squadmembers/causes more complaining/arguing from other leagues. There is enough division amongst whether to bd, jd or dd in squads, and I think that (what would be the weakest of the 4 leagues) SD would simply aggrevate the problem and also sever what is becoming a healthy league with budding spiders (TWBD). I think they're a lot of decent spiders out there and a fairly healthy amount of people willing the SD. Also it encourages DSB guys to come over and play a few TWL-SD games to show us TWers how much we sucks :down:

TWBD is already the weakest of the 3 leagues in terms of participation, but it is slowly getting better imo, and this would not help at all. Spiders is the weakest of the 3 TWEL leagues, spidduel is the weakest of the wbduel-type games, spider elim is the least played elim game, etc... Actually, TWJD has the least participation. I know that we only got in 14 squads for TWLB this season but that's because of how huge basing rosters are. 40-50 people in each roster is usually the average amount, the small amount of squads also gives a much more competetetive feel since most of the basing squads worked hard to get to the top 14, so we don't have squads like Ava****** going 0-10 in ld where as a dd or jd roster has about 20-30 people average(no offence)

There is no surging demand for spider leagues, its a select niche that a few people like. I think the 3 leagues are fine as it is, and that spiders can get their fill from TWEL's spider division, TWBD/TWBL, the world basing cup, zombies, etc...

It could work, but the demand and benefits aren't great. Doesn't seem worth it.

Hi, I'm Send stop being nosy you little bastard

[ogron]

hmmm...

maybe you're right, and it would encourage players from other zones to join TW leagues (I hadn't thought of that, but I remember LEGO and a few other squads having a tought time adapting to TW, this would certainly help).

Your other points seem valid, and if there is a demand for it and TWLB doesn't suffer... I suppose I stand corrected

I guess that would prove the old adage "If you build it, they will come." If someone does get it up and running, I wouldn't mind giving it a chance. You spiders sure seem keen on it lol

[Sufficient]

I know traditionally twd has been 5v5 for dueling. However, to me 4v4 works better for spids ... dunno what you guys think tho.

[lunch3]

I think it would actually help twbd and lb because it is hard to practice spider dueling on a massive scale. You could pub, but there are other ships to worry and adjust around. You could ?go base, but then you have to wait a long time to get a game started. Same with bd.

If this division is created, I guarantee RB will be playing like 5 of those games a day, just for the practice alone...cause we need the spider practice.

[Stabwound]

Well lunch3 has a very good point; spidduel and TWSD (if it ever comes about) will be huge in getting new people into base and TWBD/LB. It will be easier for newbies to practice in spidduel or whatever, and once they are at least decent in spider, they will have a much easier time getting into ?go base and all that.

I also agree with Suff that in spider dueling, 4v4 could possibly be the better way to go. Spiders shoot a lot of bullets, and 10 spiders shooting at once just seems like a bit much.

[Rion.]

I've played a fair few games of this now, and I can say that Sweeper's done a great job of the map, and the way he's made it, if you're grossly outnumbered you do actually have a fair chance of escaping 4v1 to find your teammates. It's a very well done map.

Victory does more or less revolve around teaming as one would expect with Spiders, but especially since this will be used a lot as base Spider practice it could help players develop a sense of how to work together with each other.

Imagine how great it'd be if the random Spiders you picked in ?go base all had the sense to push up to break the cram together.