TWD ladder system

[Rab]

so will TWD ladder get fixed. It was chaos before TWL when all squads played only vs newb squads. good diea would be if wouldnt gain rating if have played vs. too many low rank squads or vs same squad. example no rating gain if squad have played 5x vs squads which are under rank 5 and no rating gain if squad have played 2x vs same squad.

er hang on a minute, the current system aint broke... why fix it?
It's always provided TWLB with a good selection of squads.

[JeBu]

the last few years, the TWL has been won by the best squads. No squad is lucky or whatever, so i think the TWD system is doing pretty well for itself.

well almost true but league isn't only about winning there should be all top squads.
end of twd wasnt very interesting and with some better system twd would be more interesting right now u can get #1 spot dueling vs newb squads if are really active but it's not very interesting. with some other system squads would maybe find more different opponents.

[Abatis]

Providing I understood current rating formula well - No points are "created" - points are just redistributated. This works well until too many squads played few xDs, lost them and dissolves. This brings new points which usually ends in top squads. This leads in large differences in ratings (from 1500-800) causing point "inflation" of good squads and I am not sure if creators of formula took it into account. Maybe if points would be checked every week or so to secure that there is only

N*1000 points distributed
N = number of squads on ladder

because the sum of total points will be larger it should be balanced (how to not penalise too good/bad squads?)
I dont have any suggestion tho...
Problems I see with current system - newcomers have 1000 points which may catapult them to 1st third of table (twbd now)
Too simple redistribution - one gains all. Perhaps if looser would get few points... but it may be too easy to abuse.
Match is not worth the risk for squad which has like 300 points more than its oponnent. End this happens often because of point inflation.
Lot of up/down move. Maybe more inertia wont harm - squad may be on top for 1 month than lose few matches (lets face it - you dont have your best lineup on 24/7) with some mid point squads and voila - you are in the middle of the table. I think it should be more slow. (not stopped ofc).




As i said - i have no suggestion at the moment. and its easy to see problems, but harded to fix it.
Feel free to explain where my mistake is - even I can do errors.

You could change the amount of points new squads are created with. They could either be created with the mean average of points, but I think that would lead to them being created with more than a 1000 points and wouldn't help or they could be created with the median amount of points, which is the amount of points in the middle. And the only time squads would start with a 1000 points is at twd resets.
This would solve the problem of point inflation, I think, but I'm not sure if that's the real problem.
Another solutions I've heard of, which I think would work, is a qualifying tournament using seeds from twd with single-elimination.

[Zingy]

When I think about this. One squad comes to mind. Militaris.

Methinks Kid Kaos needs an education.

Unlike FU Inc., Militaris was built from the ground up WITHOUT calling in "connections" and collecting all of the best players from last season's twl squads packing them into one squad and having an elite squad ready and created in the timespan of a few days.

In fact, a lot of the people I have recruited in the past have been completely new talent, and i'll admit I have even spotted some exceptional players in pub.

To think that he is trying to "insult" this squad, affects me not. What does matter to me is that he is making a judgement of us without ANY knowledge of us. Looking at our TWD history he would see that we don't have a problem playing against good squads, even when we don't have a decent lineup on.

In fact i've noticed that, PLENTY of what you might call the "top squads" do not accept matches against other squads if they don't have their very best lineup on.

Your response to this will probably be "Oh, but you guys don't accept challenges we send out so you are retards". To that, I won't say anything, because its clear that some people have attitudes that aren't very pleasant to deal with.

TWD is messed up. But not in the way that it acts as qualifications for TWL, because that system works fine. When points and "ranking" are involved, everyone gets competitive, and sometimes this affects the fun in the game.

For Example: Today we played a game against unite. We lost round 1 49-50 (by 1 point, if you can't count) and we won round 2 by 50-40 (by 10 points if you cant count). For the third round they didn't have enough people so we got the third round. After the game, here are the responses I got:

waXy> Well, enjoy your free win
waXy> enjoy the points now
waXy> because they mean so much bfore the next reset :<

I responded:

Zingy> points dont matter... twd resets before twl quals
waXy> then why are you taking a win,zingy?

Ok. Lets pause for a second. This was a "FREE" win? He is acting as if they "owned" us first round. He thinks that them getting lucky because of a stray when the score was 49-49 at the end of the first round means we got owned? Laugh. Second round we made up for the first round by winning by a margin of 10 points. Even funnier was that he was questioning why I was taking the win in round three. Lets pause for another second. Would they have taken a win if we didn't have enough people in round 3? YES. Conversation Over.

Moving on...

It's this kind of attitude that is invoked when points and rating are used to "judge". Obviously there is no way around this, but I hope I made the point clear.

The moral of this lesson is: Some people (this may or may not include Kid Kaos) have egos, and having egos in a 2d spaceship game that is over a decade old, is retarded, just like the people with the egos.

[Rab]

squads who play like crazy the night before twl are those who know willingness. those are the kind of squads we want in twl, right?

[Fit of Rage]

When I think about this. One squad comes to mind. Militaris.

who?

[semenfaze]

I thought kid did teached how to robber banks

[Volny]

squads who play like crazy the night before twl are those who know willingness. those are the kind of squads we want in twl, right?

one night > whole season ?

[Pressure Drop]

Ok to be honest i didn't read alot of this thread Booo @ Pressure

But after reading Volny's first post the jist seemed to be with new squads being created and giving points to the first decent squads that b/d/j-d them leading to a slightly biased leader board which is also open to abuse.


A part solution to this (but it would need some coding) is to simply set a limit of games for the squads rating to "normalise" until they start giving out points to other squads. Have it so they must complete n (maybe 10 for example) games before they are placed on ladder. Whilst playing these games they can lose points but the squad playing them cannot gain any.

If you allowed them to gain points and other squads not lose any when playing a new squad it would make sense, but it would also be open to abuse... say a squad lost 10 games on purpose giving the new squad a high rating and on the ladder then beating them 10x and gaining all there points.

However this type of abuse would be a bit obvious so maybe its ok as the staff could see it?