TWL + TWDT ruin TWD + TW

[Shaddowknight]

Twd ran during twl this year if i recall correctly. I beleive the bots used for twdt this year use the same Matchbot names, just diff coding loaded up when they log in.

[Shaddowknight]

I am guessing that using the same logins would cause an issue when trying to spawn a twd bot, knowing a little about how the bots are setup/spawned. Other than that, it was fine during twl and I dont see any other reason to stop twd if we could avoid it (speaking as a player and squad captain for that last line)

[beam]

Already beat twl. Do as you wish.

[Crescent Seal]

only thing u beat is ur meat

[Oranje]

Already benched twld final. Do as you wish.

:kiss:

[squallFF8]

F*ck that shit. TWL is when all of twd's top players consolidate to have some of the best competition in the game.
It's tradition, has nostalgic value, and has been going on for a decade or more. Let's say twl was removed, I'd probably stop playing altogether. And countless others. Ppl who have been in the game 5+ years are what keep the game alive, they introduce newcomers to the game.

Some ppl may think it's boring. Others only try to build squadrons through the regular season solely to qualify and do well in the league. Why do you think hundreds of people flock in spec ONLY to watch a final? Because they enjoy it maybe?

[Ephemeral]

Squall, you have identified the fun that a small minority of player have in playing TWL. Your entire justification is built upon a single premise, that the TW zone is alive and has players. TW has been ‘bleeding’ players for years and this trend is not reversing even with attempts at marketing and increased exposure.

I am interested in hearing opinions that show how keeping TWL helps bring new players into the game. I don’t see TWL games packed with newer players watching, and aspiring, to play in the zone more. What I see is a bunch of vets trash talking while the same two squads play each other for the 12,345^th time.

I have little doubt that it is ‘fun’ for a small handful of players and I do see value in keeping these players involved in the zone. But are they really? Or does a large percentage of players just show up for TWL?

And are you really saying that TWL inspires people to build new squads? It is the exact opposite. It is completely impossible to build a competitive squad in any league in this zone. Every single thing is setup against a new squad, and new players, from ever becoming competitive. This is why ‘vets’ rarely go to a poor squad. A handful will play on a poor squads during the off-season but as soon as thing get serious the ‘vets’ all quick run and hide on the squad they know will reflect well on their reputation.

Look at the hockey zone, it has suffered from the same fate. It has a terrible time trying to bring in and hold new players. The existing player base now has years of experience and holds nothing back when it comes to belittling new players. The leagues and tournaments have moved far beyond anything that a new player can aspire to playing in. Their championships also bring in a lot of people to watch, but few would say that the toxic trash talking environment is conducive to gleaning new players.

When we all cut out teeth on this game we may have struggled at times but we had ultimately a far better chance to improve and enjoy this zone than new players today. And when you measure the value that TWL brings to the zone; it simply no longer contributes what it once did. IMO, reduce it to a 2 weekend nostalgic tournament. This would allow the vets who don’t contribute in any other way throughout the year to have their 15 minutes of glory. But IMO to let TW erode into another hockey zone, complete with it meaningless and poisonous league play, is a death of a thousand cuts. Slow and painful to watch. I would rather see TWL go out with the memory of it being the premier league and a good thing for TW than watch it suffer a mid-age crisis.
eph

[Steep]

Ppl who have been in the game 5+ years .. .. they introduce newcomers to the game.

hahahah

[squallFF8]

Eph, alot of valid points. Everything is set up against new squads competing. Everyone would rather play on a good squad, so nobody comprimises.

I dont understand though, how you can attribute the declining population to TWL. Maybe people in this day and age would rather play Xbox , and don't relate to 2d spaceship games ?

Twler's are also not a 'minority' .. Lego, enemy, life, dice, plade.. are the most active in twbd right now, and their rosters are primarily made of people who compete in twl year after year. Theyre the ones who keep things going. Who were the people that started training squads like trauma+ , mellow, etc. Started with players like royst. They didn't start it amongst themselves .

How would removing twl benefit activity ? I guarentee if it was removed, you'd lose a bigger portion of active twd population than you would expect ..

[schope]

F*ck that shit. TWL is when all of twd's top players consolidate to have some of the best competition in the game.
It's tradition, has nostalgic value, and has been going on for a decade or more. Let's say twl was removed, I'd probably stop playing altogether. And countless others. Ppl who have been in the game 5+ years are what keep the game alive, they introduce newcomers to the game.

Some ppl may think it's boring. Others only try to build squadrons through the regular season solely to qualify and do well in the league. Why do you think hundreds of people flock in spec ONLY to watch a final? Because they enjoy it maybe?

Most of the Top players quit playing tw after season 6/7 when World of Warcraft was launched.

I see some people care a lot about leagues but I personally dont give a shit to twl. mainly because i like to have fun at my weekends. I go out. travel a lot and stuff.

twd is cool because i can play whenever i'm online. Dont need to schedule a time to play.

[squallFF8]

Well, it's a good topic of discussion to get the ball rolling anyways. If you did a poll i'd think both sides of the argument would get alot of votes. Maybe TWL could use some alterations, but it's too drastic of a move to get rid of it altogether. I'd hate to see an entire Penetrate roster (for example) disappear, - comprised of players who mainly get active amongst eachother prior to TWL season. It seems to drive their activity...

Staff don't get enough credit either, the zone would be long dead by now if they didn't sacrifice their personal time for the game. Would be cool to hear suggestions about how twl could be runned differently in order to allow for a better flow of things. Whether it's a shortened season, or having multiple league competition for lower tier teams. (ie. like hockey or soccer irl, with 1st division / 2nd division etc.) .

[Jerome Scuggs]

didnt pandora win twl? isnt it over?

[Ephemeral]

Squall,
I do not think that TWL is the sole problem to the Zone. TW’s evolution has rolled along for years without much oversight or direction. Leadership occurs in a vacuum and without any meaningful context from year to year. Basically people step forward (to staff) with their own opinions on how to improve whatever they have been given control over, implement about half of what they thought they could, and then burn out. Their ideas all are meant to help but as each wave of individuals has recycled through the TW staff no one has been overseeing the overall health of the zone.

The over-riding primary context has been missing; the need to keep new players in the game. Gone are the days where any idea stood a good chance of many players trying it out. Gone are the days when multiple leagues could be supported. Gone are the days when league play motivated new players to become good enough to be join a well known squad.

Now the zone population is in or near critical mass. Changing a few Pub 0 settings, putting someone new to run a league, or fixing Distension has had little impact on retaining new players. It is nuts to think that trying to fix the primary issue with TW ‘from the bottom up’. TW is huge, there are 10,000 ‘features’ that could be debated and argued about. But at the end of the day all that really matters is if TW is able or not to retain new players. ‘Top down’ thinking puts ‘retaining new players’ has the primary context in which all decisions are made.

A case can be made to retain any of the existing ‘features’ of TW (more ‘bottom up’ thinking). None of them is solely responsible for the population decline but most of them are now contributing to it. Current leaders now have an incredibly obvious yardstick to measure every decision they make, with TW is on life support every decision regarding expending time and energy has to pay off. Every decision has to pay off by contributing to retaining the new player base. It has to be understood that with such a low population base every ‘feature’ is robbing players from other ‘features’. In other words, running an event may have traditionally been good for TW now kills off Pub 0; if so then it shouldn’t be run.

Current staff seems to understand that TW days are numbered. But every time they try to make the hard decisions many of us start bitching about ‘bottom up’ things. Like our own personal pleasure is more important than TW even surviving. What fucking good is a little icon ring when the Zone is dead or looks like the current hockey zone? Do we really want a TW where at any given time there might be 6 people playing but a few times a year much time/energy is spent on a league where the same players always win the same iconic rings?

We need to support the current leaders and stop being so selfish in our actions. We have to understand that we need to give some things up, things cannot be the way they used to be.
Or we can ride this ship to the bottom of ocean and all drown while using kill macros and being proud that we used to be able to own up Pub 0.
eph

[Shaddowknight]

to be honest, TW is one of the worst zones for new players. The 'super' ship settings of other zones is much easier to get accustomed to, and easier to get some kills with random luck and bullet spam. Im not saying tw needs to become that, but perhaps more cohesion between zones would be plausible.

[Turban]

how's that shitty greenlight project going with subspace?