TWBD ideas

[qan]

I wanted to throw out a few ideas for TWBD, to see if anyone would be interested. Maybe not. Here's why maybe not:

Basing is my thing in TW. For the most part, if I'm going to play, it's going to be basing. But usually, it's going to be in pub, because there are a few things I don't like about the BD/?go base structure, stuff I think is pretty old-fashioned in terms of gameplay.

For one, the length of the matches to me turns every single one into a grind. By around the 2/3s mark, especially if it's a bit of back and forth, I'm always thinking: Wow, I wish I were doing something else. Anything else. Getting a root canal. Having my dog's anal glands expressed. I don't even have a dog and I'd rather be doing that than basing during the end of most competitive basing matches. Because either it lasts way too long (because it's very close), or it's just waiting around until the team that's dominating finally chokes off their opponents' last chance and ends the thing.

This is probably not a very popular opinion. For some (most?) die-hard basers, maybe the tension remains. But to me it's usually pretty lackluster. I'm used to this structure, too. I'm imagining trying to get a newbie excited about ?go base or TWBD. I can't really see how, given all the forms of highly-developed competitive gaming available, they would choose to throw their time into BDing.


I'm curious what people think about offering a few alternatives -- not replacements. Basing is arguably the core of TW, but we don't need to have the competitive version of it done in one very particular way. If both squads agree to play by alternate rules, there's no reason it can't count just as much as a normal basing game. Some options:

• Shorter amount of time needed during timerace. 10 minutes, 8 minutes, 5 minutes? You pick.
• Timerace with a short counter, but best 2 out of 3. So at most 3 matches, racing to 5 minutes.
• Unbroken hold: a bit like how pub and Distension both work. Hold base for an unbroken X minutes to win.
• Attack/defense: Team A is given the base to start. Team B starts in safe/spawn/wherever. The clock runs until B breaks A's hold by touching and keeping the flag for a very short time ... say, 5 seconds. Then it restarts, and Team B starts with the flag, with A trying to do the same, but within a shorter amount of time. If they can't do it, B wins the round. If they manage to beat the time, either they win, or (depending on what people prefer) the match restarts again, with B trying to get the flag from A again, to beat the attack time record that A just set. Back and forth until someone isn't able to do it. This would give a much more rewarding victory, I think, than just reaching a time limit, which is usually pretty anticlimactic, IMO, and often occurs while both teams have FR anyway -- there isn't the feeling of complete destruction.
• Ship Limitations: both teams agree to special limitations to keep things interesting. For example, only 1 spider, no spiders, no sharks ... no terrs? BDers like to say they're the best at basing, right? I honestly say they can't really prove that: they're the best at basing with a particular loadout during a timerace situation. Doesn't say much. Why not prove you're a better baser in so many new, unique ways?
• Capture points: this would require its own map. Rather than one FR, you have a series of points to defend. Only 1 is active at a time. The setup and scoring would probably be similar to attack/defend. Each capture point (basically a flag room) is a bit harder than the last to take. Back-capping might become useful/flanking would actually make sense, rather than rushing at the same stupid choke we've had in TW for YEARS, and which has taken down the skill level of TWers in base by focusing on obsession over a single shape. Yes, you can do TW settings & basing with different bases -- maybe even find that spider is not always the best basing ship, because the cram is an extremely specialized tactical situation.
• Push: If you're familiar with TF2, this would be the same as payload. Another attack/defense mode. The attacking team moves the point along a fixed path by being right next to it; the more next to it, the faster it moves. When it reaches the final point within the time allotted, the team wins (or, it would be time attack, and reversed to play for the other team). The path would have a variety of choke points, flanks, etc. Plenty of space to show off a larger variety of skill than typical basing allows.

Any feelings on this? Again, these would just be options for basing. Not replacements for the old tried and true standard. But I think it could revitalize basing competition a bit ... hell, I might even want to base competitively ... heh.

[Zeebu]

find a way to make cramming less effective again. thats the worst part of basing.

[bkgmjo]

Could actually make me try twbd again. Also, why is there no TF on TW?

[fakiiri]

It would be great for people who mostly only pub offer pub playcash on every ?go base, usually money WORD itself attracts people, fake or real.
More people on ?go base ,prob some might start to think "damn this shit rocks" and starts to be more interested of tactics and not just some random pub "solo" basing.

[Fork]

I suggest squads hook up to vent/ teamspeak while play basing- this makes twd games more fun and has actually got me interested in basing for the first time. So while thinking of other ideas- advertise how to join vent/ teamspeak- get people on squads on this and games will become fun/ funny/ and winning will mean more.

[Dreamwin]

Lol, if you can't base more than 5 minutes without getting bored basing is NOT your thing.

If you are thinking of reducing time in ?go base, scrap it. Picking takes 4-10mins depending on caps. Playing 5min timerace after that would make ppl slit their wrists.

[Ricko]

The current basing time is absolutely fine - ?go base is a race to 10 and bd a race to 15, I don't see a need to make them any shorter as it's a 1 round match as opposed to BO3 like dd and jd, I see no need to reduce the flag race time and increase bd to BO3 - it's just trying to shape bd to align with jd and dd when it doesn't need to, it's nice that basing differentiates from the other leagues a bit.

Cramming to me is by far the most boring part about basing and sadly it is also one of the most important in how basing is played these days, if someone came up with a really viable solution to how we could reduce the amount of time spent cramming in basing that would be great but I don't know how this could be proposed to the die hard basers without upsetting them.

[Turban]

if you want to remove the effectiveness of cramming, simply remove one tile from each side of the "under bar" and it will be harder to hold the cram. i wouldn't do it, however, but that's at least an interesting (and creative) way to get more flag room fights going.

however, don't mess with the settings or rules. it'll only make the competitive players (and basers) upset.

[Shaddowknight]

How about designing a few variable flagrooms, putting them into like ?go twbd6-9 and getting opinions. Games could be played there and then deleted from twd records, but woukd give a better opinion from players as compared to ?go base. Again though, I dont agree on it being done, but if its decided to play around with, that's a way to test things without breaking the status quo.

[Pressure]

I kept reading your post trying to imagine myself continuing to play competitively under any of those rule changes. Honestly, they all ruin the integrity of basing. I didn't realize anyone was bored of cram (only like 2 people said in here, of a hundred or more that still play, so that's not a big deal... but still). I still find it one of the most interesting aspects of basing. It's a strategy that has evolved overtime not just to overcome squads that could break through, but also to overcome the one change in tile sets (that probably inspired Turban's post) when the ability to hold a cram was put to the test.

When you said "try ship variations, try playing without a terr," I literally laughed. What a stupid thought.

I commend you for attempting to come up with what you might have thought was a feasible way to spice things up, but your complaints are typical of someone who barely plays the game. To answer your speculation, yes, the tension is still there for players who are involved in that last minute grind to win.

Tradition is what keeps TWD/TWL alive. Fuck with tradition and you'll lose core players.

Stop focusing on revising an art form that players have worked at for 10-15 years. Focus on implementing something new. I played one game of ?go attack2 the other night and I am certain that if that was a TWD-ready game, I'd play it daily. Make the map smaller and allow 10v10 with 2 terrs, 2 sharks, and 6 spiders (spiders with slightly faster ship settings that make the spider slightly slower than terr, but still faster than they are now so they can cover more ground) and you'll have created the best modern game in years. Everyone would play, people would devise new strategies, and you'll have something new for people to strive for. This is solely what is lacking in TW, novelty, people feel that everything that can be accomplished has been already.

[Zeebu]

really? i know the point of a cram and everything, but they are in no way shape or form interesting. watching a game with one team holding a cram and the other trying to break it without success is an eye bleeder. i would just support some very small map tweak that would promote more flag room battles. at least a trial of something. once in the flagroom the watchability goes up massively. it is also way more fun to play in my opinion.

[Pressure]

I don't know, I personally think one of the most important aspects of every ship is the decisions made in attempts to hold or attack a cram.

Flagroom battles are fun too, I didn't say we shouldn't try to promote their frequency. Turban probably had the best idea that could both increase the frequency of flagroom battles and make it harder to hold cram. Just not sure which tile could be removed, don't want to go changing it too much imo. I'll have a look at it later and see what I can come up with.

[Turban]

we updated the TWDT maps and are going to test out the change in ?go TWDTB in the upcoming weeks.

[bkgmjo]

While a different map or setting might not appeal to everyone, what speaks against making those things optional choices both squads can agree on? Won't be an advantage to anyone so could also count for league score.

[Jerome Scuggs]

just to pile onto the anti-cramming crowd here, as an american with an awesome connection i am decidedly at a disadvantage when cramming with euros and people with terrible connections. i'm already pretty bad so it's super depressing when i finally get a stream of bullets on someone and they just eat them and fire one back at me for the kill.

which reminds me fuck u basejav turban, fuck you. scourge of my life.