Which cram should be in TWL?

[SpookedOne]

I agree with my boy ekko on midbursts, plz change it back. Notice the pluralization cause I can think of 4 burst spots now neutered due to that "small" change. Ty for reading my essay.

[Ekk0]

WE NEED THE MAPS IN TWBD TO BE ACCURATE FOR TWL AND TWDTB AND WE NEED TO DECIDE ON THE MAPS BEING USED AND THE PUB BURST SPOT IS NON NEGOTIABLE BECAUSE WE NEED TO PRACTICE ON THE MAPS WE'LL ACTUALLY BE USING AND MINIMIZE LONG CRAMS. WHO DO I HAVE TO BOTHER TO CHANGE THIS AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

[Stayon]

ive always wondered, but didnt really care all that much... why have the two sides always been different? why the block on one side but not the other?

Good existential question Zeeb. Likely reason being the map creator couldn't get rid of his masturbation habits, hence, righty on the mousey, lefty on the mandigo.

[Zeebu]

ive always wondered, but didnt really care all that much... why have the two sides always been different? why the block on one side but not the other?

[Ekk0]

true, ppl aren't getting caught by that burst but it's still useful to fake it to make them move.

stop revealing my 10* secrets

[Rab]

true, ppl aren't getting caught by that burst but it's still useful to fake it to make them move.

[Ekk0]

Hello,

Regardless of what cram is used for DT/TWLB, please bring back the blocks that allow the pub burst to happen here in twbd arenas. The whole reason for changes being suggested was to try and find a way to reduce cramming time. This burst spot is an effective tool to help break cram.. not sure why it was edited out. ty.

[Riverside]

Holay molay ty 4 this biet

[BIET]

I believe the lack of a visual progress bar on when doors are about to open is holding this variant down as it currently opens without warningsudden and becomes reaction based which results in it feeling slightly chaotic.

There is also no comeback mechanics which definitely could be included such as disabling doors when a team is losing by a certain amount and holding the cram, or perhaps disabling the function after certain conditions are met. Alternatively there could perhaps also be a scaling timer (from 90 seconds up to 5 minutes) which would depend on current time difference between two teams when holding cram.

I did add graphics to show when doors are going to open, but they might've never worked in practice (didn't catch a match after I changed the graphics). There's the progress bar counting up to 60s (added a 30s delay in the last version), and an opening graphic for the doors in the last 10 seconds.

I personally don't like having the doors open at different times based on the teams' score, especially in a DTB/LB setting. In my opinion the doors should be a part of the map and should behave the same, regardless of the game's progression. Perhaps it could come back as an alternative map in BD with settings that make it a shorter wait when your team is behind by a lot. It could provide better games between teams of different skill levels. Having said that though, the door logic itself and the big change it brings in entering/defending the flagroom doesn't make it very update friendly (the graphics need to be tuned every time the timings change). So for now I've removed it from TWD.

The new BD arena map list is as follows (previous map in parenthesis):

TWBD: wide cram w/o camp spot (cram doors)
TWBD2: wide cram w/o camp spot (cram doors)
TWBD3: twl map, old cram (wide cram w/o camp spot)
TWBD4: wide cram w/ 10 min timer
TWBD5: wide cram w/ attach mode

[Vehicle]

I don't like the doors but I do agree with Turban. The best UI would be one that changes the door color 10 seconds before they open and 5-10 seconds before they close. They also need to stay open longer, like a full 20 seconds, after Terr gets in. If they escape back out, that's fine, think of it as a Terr bursting cram. I still don't like them in general though.

The bd3 map works pretty well. It remains to be seen what good spids can do with practice in terms of new angles. Terr drops into cram are in a way safer and easier now too. All that being said the bd3 map seems to pretty effectively nerf both cram attack and defense.

[Rab]

twbd3 cram is good, I say use that for upcoming TWDT.

No need to spend any more time on doors right now, which it sounds like 90% of ppl don't like.

[Turban]

I believe the lack of a visual progress bar on when doors are about to open is holding this variant down as it currently opens without warningsudden and becomes reaction based which results in it feeling slightly chaotic.

There is also no comeback mechanics which definitely could be included such as disabling doors when a team is losing by a certain amount and holding the cram, or perhaps disabling the function after certain conditions are met. Alternatively there could perhaps also be a scaling timer (from 90 seconds up to 5 minutes) which would depend on current time difference between two teams when holding cram.

[ogron]

nice work BIET, thanks.

TWLB

i don't see there being much (if any) support among TWLB contenders for changing the TWL map, which has been the same for 12 years. i think the map used for TWLB 2010-2021 should continue to be used.

Basing Cup

same as TWL, as the quality of lines is similar. same map as always. breaking isn't an issue in either league the last few years.

TWDT-B

the doors seem great in theory, but so far in play have felt bad.

1) it feels too powerful for the breaking team... they swarm through all 3 doors and the cramming team gets overwhelmed
2) the cramming team keeps trying to greed and hold cram, when it's impossible. the only way to test the true merit of the door map is if they back off and fortify 1 side and try to hold a 60/40 advantage over the FR
3) cramming teams keep ignoring the door on their side. enemy spiders keep sneaking into it and wreaking havoc and trapping the enemy team on all sides
4) when you're losing and get a cram, it feels bad having the doors open when you're down 12-4 and the opposing team gets a free pass into base, like it's crazy hard to come back
5) sometimes you get a tek so fast, the other team has open doors and you don't get a cram

i think it warrants more testing, and hopefully cramming teams improve their reaction to the doors opening, but as of right now i think my preference's would be:

1) TWL map
2) Doors map
3) Wide cram map

if players can't adjust to the doors, maybe just 1 door open would be better? the 2nd door just seems to get pounced on by a cram-breaking spid and destroys your side. i think if cramming teams played it less greedy it might not be an issue, but we'll see.

wide cram should be 100% scrapped though, the new strats have somehow made that map the worst. any map replacing the TWL map of the last 12 years shoul have to conclusively prove it's significantly better than the standard TWL map, and i don' think any of them have. the wide cram showed early promise but clever players outwitted it.

TWDT (updated)

1) TWL map
2) Wide cram w/o block in TWBD3
2) Doors map
3) Wide cram map

BIET this bd3 one feels better than doors and the current TWDT-B map

i thought doors would be amazing but in practice bd3 feels quite solid

[Rab]

these should be made symmetrical imo

[Rab]

I'll pop this in here, defo think these corners should be blocked off to prevent this spid hitting this terr: