--Long Read-- The TWL problem that's also a TWD problem and how we might fix it

[Grasps]

[ Deleted ]

[Rab]

I've always said that TWL kills the zone. Squads break up and that totally ruins the social aspect of the game. Back in 2000-ish the whole fun of the game was building a squad with people you liked. If you can't have a squad survive more than a year (because TWL will show up and kill it) what's the point even trying.

Stuff I would do:
- Throw TWL in the fucking sea. Delete all websites/bots/medals/everything. Remove it from history.
- Run TWDT 2-3 times a year.
- Make MMR work in all 3 divisions and not require staff to play it. (a replacement for wbduel/javduel/base)
- Keep TWD but focus on squads as social entities, and fix the stats so borrowed games show up.

[Tanzu]

I got past the bold headline.

But if you think I'm going to read this whole bloodcaut novel you're outta your gord alie. Man's tryna gurkie my brain with schupidness first thing in the morning alie. Calm yourself bawty boi. Holy.

[Rab]

He posted a tl/dr, but at the bottom so you don't notice it

Here it is:

TLDR version:

My assessment: TWD Health = TW Zone Health. Historically & Currently TWL = Unhealthy Zone/Unhealthy TWD.

I suggested ideas for to make TWL less damaging and giving TWD new life.

Mainly those ideas are as follows..

• TWL brings back requirements for competing (50 to 100 games to be played, being in the top group of squads on ladder at season end) and also implementing tools from TWDT to reduce stacking.
• TWL Regular Seasons (qualifiers) run longer--3-5 months for bi-yearly TWL or 9-11 months yearly TWL which increases activity and makes TWD matches more meaningful.
• Post season is very VERY short (ideally 1-3 weeks tops).
• After the TWL season concludes, another immediately starts like the next day. There should be zero down time for TWD! No more waiting to know when TWL starts either. Let's get some consistency so people can plan out months/years in advance to play games.

Suggested some other tweaks like how borrowing players for games should not give points but still count towards total "games played" so there's still incentive for activity but playing with squamates is always the best and most rewarding way to tackle TW games. Essentially "ranked" and "unranked" matches.

[Vehicle]

Yall are missing the point. Everyone knows this is what TWL does to the zone, that's the point of TWL. We're bit players in 30 people's attempt to cling to glory they had when they were teenagers. TWL isn't supposed to help the zone, it's not supposed to be competitive, it isn't meant to be a good time. TWL exists so that the few dozen players who revolve their lives around this game can have a three month period to talk shit, create drama, crank the douche meter to 11 and ultimately end where they started and do it all over again.

Stop with the suggestions. Literally anything would be better for the majority of players and the zone than TWL. But that's not the point of TWL.

[Riverside]

Literally anything would be better for the majority of players and the zone than TWL. But that's not the point of TWL.

I reference these reasons TWL remains a recurringly used structure from forum posts that have been written these past few weeks by players who advocate for the league:

1. "Prestige" is a concept & word cited (l o l).
2. The Trench Wars community has been participating in this league every year for 15? 20? years.
3. The top x players (2 out of 120 players? 5 players? 10?) will stop playing the Zone without TWL.

[saiyan]

You guys get the kind of match you like 1000x a year.. And I get the kind of match I like 3-4x a year. But apparently that 3-4x must become 0.

No problem.

[Rab]

UK/EU players do not get 1000 games a year.

Pretty much the only games we can rely on are scheduled Sunday games.

So it's really important that those events don't exclude us.

And TWL caused it anyway by wrecking the population. Your 5 games a year cost us the entire viability of the zone in UK/EU time zone. So get fucked.

[bike]

You guys get the kind of match you like 1000x a year.. And I get the kind of match I like 3-4x a year. But apparently that 3-4x must become 0.

No problem.

Saiyan likey the 40-40 void match that takes 35 minutes?

[saiyan]

Saiyan likey the 40-40 void match that takes 35 minutes?

You got slapped by Ram Ranch. How do you have any time to be focusing on other teams? Get your shit together.

[Jessup]

For me TWL is over. Most all my friends who were good that I'd make squads with and go to TWL with have recently or long since retired. There are not enough players for TWL anymore imo and it seems every squad has a few toxic players who have it out for me that I'm not even given the chance. I was going to try to make a squad but realized my best option was to stay on Divine and we all know how that worked out with a sudden mass axing like 10 days before closing. I asked around and had a few nice replies and a few mean ones, but nothing stuck. L-a-s-e-r had to head for a long euro vacation and the options of playing with pawner and j-b again was too much. Both always quit or get grumpy. What I'm saying is that social fringe players are literally being pushed out sadly. There is no room for new squad comradery, and long-standing history has people set in their ways. TWL was great when we had 50 squads competing for spots and like 18 going and rosters could be as large as you wanted because there was a large population and a real sense of controlling your destiny.

Not trying to take anything away from the points you made ixador because I get what you are saying about priority being activity and bringing back meaning to TWD/TWL. I just personally know it's over for me and there are many others I've talked to who realize it's a closed small group thing now and the numbers just aren't there anymore. This game should be much more popular, but we all know it can't seem to be bought out because of Prittk. It needs a corporate boost if it will ever have a chance to become popular again, but at this stage I am convinced the chances of this are next to nil.

On a positive note, MMR could possibly lead to a fairer and more exciting blip in the final sunset days of Trench Wars. I see the data collected as being the future for MANY TYPES of up-and-coming new leagues. By the end of TWL and TWDT we should start accruing much more accurate stats that are easily transferred to make things happen automatedly. We could do stuff like use it to even make squads for the next TWDT. We could run fully automated leagues from 2 vs 2 to even 10 vs 10. We could use it to also revamp and automate even TWEL and so much more.

I personally really think next twdt we should use MMR to generate squads. LET'S SMASH MMR GAMES A LOT PEOPLE!

[Riverside]

You guys get the kind of match you like 1000x a year.. And I get the kind of match I like 3-4x a year. But apparently that 3-4x must become 0.

No problem.

What about a four week tournament?

12+ weeks for 8-14 or so players to get the 3-4 matches a year they rly want to participate in is the league structure right now.

[Zeebu]

id imagine the reason they are running twl and twdt side by side is to try and keep twl related deadness to a minimum. changing twl to some capped system to ensure parity is pretty dumb. it goes against the point of twl: to crown the best collection of players on the winning roster, a roster that is allowed to be assembled with no constraints other than size.

im not on a twl squad so i havent got a dog in the fight. twl seems worn out at this point, but enough people still demand it, i guess.

[bike]

You got slapped by Ram Ranch. How do you have any time to be focusing on other teams? Get your shit together.

Have you tried communicating in a way other than ad hominen attacks?
You spoke of playing games that you like that you only get to play 4x per year...
I'm wondering if the 40-40 voided game after 35 minutes was one of those games that you really enjoyed and want more of.
If not, why not?
Is there a way to make it better?

To me, an ideal warbird game is probably something something like 46* teams, and of course it isn't fun playing against the same people over and over again,
so it would be fun to play against different 46* teams. How many 45-46* teams could the zone currently put together? My guess is 5. Could be fun.

Something like an 'all-star tournament' would also be fun. Let 4 of the top players draft teams - so you'd get the top 20 players competing in a somewhat balanced way.
(Separate drafts for each dueling league.)

Love

[ogron]

You guys get the kind of match you like 1000x a year.. And I get the kind of match I like 3-4x a year. But apparently that 3-4x must become 0.

saiyan because the game is full of selfish, bad players who only care about themselves.

that they get 3 TWDT leagues per year to have their fun and TWL players get 1 (if any; it wasn't run 2017 or 2018) doesn't register. every league has to be about them.

*Note: none of this even affects me since i base and we have 4-5 contenders every TWLB for that 49* feel, Basing Cup for that 46* feel, and TWDT-B for that 42* feel, it just irks me watching Bike and Exalt cry constantly on forums about warbirds.

TWLD isn't in a good place this season due to bike's terrible capping and Ease/Creature/Turban/Spartan/Trasher removing a whole core, but many TWLDs have had only 2-3 teams that can win, even in the prime of the game. That were were more middle-tier squads creating the illusion of a healthy/competitive league is irrelevant, only 2-3 teams could win and only the semis/finals matter.

What's infuriating is a crybaby on a dark horse 45* line having constant tantrums about stacking, as if everyone on Rapid and Evil never played against stacks or on a 45* line. Even worse, warbird is a flukey league and you can win TWLD with a 45* line if you play well/have some luck.



Nearly everyone on Evil and Rapid has either won or nearly won on 45* TWLD lines against contenders.

bike stop fucking crying, get your shit together, practice with your line full of TWLD champs/finalists, and stop playing your horrendous non-firing rushing style... you're not Apok, you're not on voice chat with Deez Nuts/Lasenza/Skepsis... you're not creating value for your team with your dogshit play, you're just being useless.

Play normal, team up, and get into long straying matches against teams that should beat you, and watch them start to panic and get nerves and choke as it's 30-30 20 minutes in and everyone's watching. You have such a pathetic loser attitude about TWL it's hard to see you succeeding, but you have 45* worth of talent on Divine and could in theory make finals.