The Cram.

[Adman]

1:Nimrook> whoever introduced cramming fukked up basing.. =(

Tonight on chat we were discussing spiders and stuff like that. This thought came up. Though i don't entirely agree with that statement, it definately has changed basing.

Many people claim that their squads started cram, but before last season the cram was not as 'super' as it is now. Let's go back to the first instances i can remember of seeing people cram. I used to watch so many base games while hosting and stuff ebcause i really didn't care if i played or not. The game were always filled with top calibre players like Bram, and other diso's, Brookus, Mitch, Wp and the top basers of the time. In these games I myself noticed spiders becoming mroe and more bold and what have you. These games usually ended up up being relatively close because the teams were so even. The 2 tops terrs were usually captains Brookus and Mitch usually because WP is euro and i hosted mainly evenings EST.

When things became automated in #mythrandir is was still relatively quiet and the games still remained close because captains were high quality. I'm not comparing the things to the way they are now, i'm just giving facts the way they were. In these games there would usaully be 3 or 3 spiders ahead of the pack because of something they did. I was still learning the base game and becoming pretty decent myself. I started noticing more and more and ebcoming aware of how other spiders were getting huge kills and i wanted a piece. the first person i noticed pushing into the entrance was Ghost Child (Koan for you who don't know any better, or Triek or whatever the name he used at the time) he would line up prefectly with the two holes on the entrance and jsut fire down when he saw blue on his radar. Not many people were doing this and he constantly got tked or screamed at for not lining witht he team. Not that he says much anyways but he kept it up. I started using this strategy along with a few other notables, Rabbitrapist, and Bram that it doesn't really matter. But this is the origination of the cram. Starting with 1 or 2 spiders shooting from the entrance with no protection, and constant teamkilling from a jav or friendly mines etc etc.

The next TWL season started and Camisade and other squads started using the 'Cram' we know today. Now basically every squads uses it, because as of right now there is no real strategy that beats it.

So if you want to give credit to someone or yell at someone for sort of inventing this strategy, yell at Koan. hehe jk man.

A long winded post for me, GG and g'night.

[Awesome]

EDIT: Deleted

[PaulOakenfold]

The cram we have today is like a river, and the many people who used it and adapted are tributaries... you really can't say one person or even one or two squads invented the thing. I remember with #mythrandir and before that many people would go from line... and once they started pushing them out, they'd go to cram (which people had no idea of the name, or that it was an actual strategy, it was just natural). Cram has developed from a mere line to push method to a go to cram and stay in cram... while lining has gone from the start method of defending the fr, to the last hope, way of defending a cram.

I'm not saying you can't give people credit, but don't give them all, or even a large chunk, because so many people have used it as second nature, and some just took it upon themselves to develop it even more, while some JUST used that strategy to win. Last season was the coming of the cram, with unstoppable crams and very frustrating matches. This season most squads know how to break a cram, but it's still pretty powerful (but become less?). Next season I have a feeling that people will develop good enough strategies to break even the toughest crams... making basing come down to an even more fast paced game than it already is.

[Adman]

you're right, but as far back as i can see that's how i see it evolved, i don't remember seeing you in #adman or #igloo games or whatever othter people hosted was, i'm not saying you're new, no wait i guess i am but i still agree, basing is all about ownage in the FR when your defence has been broken. And as far as that shit goes blame Koan still.

a big FU goes to Awesome for being a dick.. A thread labelled cram should tell you it's about basing, and for someone who doesn't base you got a big mouth about it.

[Pan]

......in other words, yawn

hmm guess its either too late or you don't care since your a javer

This thread is going to turn into a "I started the cram" bs and later end up in flaming not the best choice of making this thread even though i believe that no one single handedly really "created the cram"(only the name) just adapted too it and kind of figured it out playing in #secretbase #mythrandir etc... etc.. Even though I wasn't there during the creation(I was still playing Cosmic Rift off Sony before they paypaled the shit) but I do remember playing aganist for the first time in #mythrandir and really pissed because this was something that would make basing boring;and here today I can say it still makes basing not nearly as fun, but more competitive. I still wish you could just have 15mins of competitive action pack flagroom battles, but its not like thats really possible with a cram. I just think this is maybe the best defensive strategy you can use on this map for trenchwars for guarding the fr. But by the end of this season cram breaking will be not nearly as much as a exhausting irritating time.

[Awesome]

hmm guess its either too late or you don't care since your a javer

bingo!

[CrvenBan]

Myth and his insane agressive style of dropping of spids started it all. It was just a natural evolution of basing on current map and it had affect on all ships (remember when javs hardly ever used rocket ?). But, I don't think we'll see any other major change in basing as long as map is the same as well as ship settings and ship restrictions.

[Fit of Rage]

Za Gophar really takes does take the credit for coining the term "cram" and having the team intentionally huddle around the entrance. Camisade was the first squad to use it effectivly, and slowly in the same time frame it was introduced in #myth and base. I don't think it's important where the cram came from, because now it's the #1 basing stratagy hands down. I haven't yet seen a squad in TWLB this year use the line intentionally unless their sharks had mined the entrance already.

[K2Grey]

I think the cram will only get stronger as people figure out how to ironproof it. I think it's too strong. I mean, the basic premise is that you have 5 spiders and 2 sharks vs 5 spiders and 2 sharks, except that the defending terr is in ideal position, and the spiders can defend retreat and return at will without weakening anything, and the sharks can rotate in an organized pattern. Whereas the nme terr can either be too far away, or it itself can be vulnerable to fire, and the attacking spiders have a harder time hitting the defending spiders than vice versa, and its often too chaotic for the attacking sharks to rotate properly or space out reps, so also the spider + shark teamwork is off. Add to all this the fact that when the attacking team gets to below cram, usually the defenders already have cram set up and are raining down fire, so the attackers start out at disadvantage.

If the attacking team has a jav then it's much the same other than that the defending sharks can't rep quite as freely, but they aren't hampered that much, since they only need to block 4 spiders now instead of 5 so they can afford to save reps. The jav shouldn't be able to get a single shot in unless he has Domi like lag.

There's a huge advantage to defending team and if the cram is done properly I don't think it can be broken. Obviously no one has a perfect cram but if it takes 7 minutes to break it then the game turns into a battle of who gets lucky in FR first so they can hold a cram for 10 minutes at a time and it's boring as hell.

[castromarx]

I think the award for the best spider at the end of the season is going to be called the 'Koan Award'.

[Mitch]

The first time I can remember playing anything that looked like "the cram" (christ, why don't we just calle it butfuck, gayest word ever) was when I was on the Light squadron in season 5. We figured that we couldn't pull it off with 2 spiders on each wing because we often played a warbird or javelin. When we played a javelin we could line fine, but when we played a warbird (Ruby a.k.a. The Fury) it was a little weak. So; ruby, fireballz, and I devised a plan, in a private arena about 3 days before the game, where we could play the base games with a bird when we didn't have a jav. The idea was for me (terrier) to throw all the spiders into the enterance and when they died, the sharks would line mine. It worked with a warbird annoying the hell out of the spiders in lower. The first time we used it was vs. Anti-Scrub and we won nonetheless.

Well, in spite of our ideas, our javelins (2dragons or Domi) decided to show up so we almost completely neglected the ideas from there out.

You people are afraid of the levithian. I think we should take the ban off it and let it be free alas and again.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Za Gophar really takes does take the credit for coining the term "cram" and having the team intentionally huddle around the entrance. Camisade was the first squad to use it effectivly, and slowly in the same time frame it was introduced in #myth and base. I don't think it's important where the cram came from, because now it's the #1 basing stratagy hands down. I haven't yet seen a squad in TWLB this year use the line intentionally unless their sharks had mined the entrance already.

Alright, im going to try my hand at sounding like I know shit about basing, I figure I can BS my way into making a point.

Anyways, from what I gather, 2 purveyors of the Cram are Za Gophar and Windreaper. Za Gophar really has the 'theory' down, whereas Wind can cramshark fairly well. But I'm not here to debate history.

I think the cram is a good thing for basing, and i'll tell you why- because Anti-Scrub utilizes it. No, not like as the skill itself- but as sort of almost pre-game strategy. Why? Because Anti-Scrub is one of the few squads that can successfully line, as well as hold a "decent" (quotes because it depends on lineup) cram. So, what does this mean? Teams don't know what we'll do. We can play a jav- or we can play a spid. We can be flexible either way.

So functionally, cramming adds another strategy option to the table- and from there, several twists. "Crining" is a unpopular but theoretically possible take on this. Sharks could lay mines a bit further down, leave a jav and a spid to hold the mini-cram, and have the rest of the team ready if the jav and spid fail to do significant damage. The obvious downside is the lack of spiders once they enter the entrance, and then the jav, so this tactic usually leads to all-out cramming. To crine would require a godlike jav, and at least 2 killer spids.

So, now the game is not "boring" in any way- because now people have felixble options. They can cram, and if that doesnt work out, they can line- or, god forbid, "crine". Imagine if spastic lined- it would create almost a feeling of shock. The other team wouldn't know wtf to do :P

I think I was going to type more but I was interrupted and lost the train of thought.

[RyanG]

4:koan> I took the initiative in creating the cram.

[a2m+]

ask any oldschool baser... basing was alot more fun when we lined. sharks got mvps for most points/kills, terrs had to be skilled in evening the lines, javs got mass kills and points and spiders got 100+ bounty easily and still had to aim if the line was breached. koan should get alot of credit for cramming but raspi did just as much. raspis always been a premier spider about as equal with koan and he did the same technique at the same time... he just dosent get as much credit because hes a full time dueler nowadays and everyone forgets he started as a baser

[Profound Magician]

Line-up restrictions. Limit the number of spiders, or force a team to be made up of one of every ship or something. BRING BACK THE LEVI YOU BASTARDS! I pushed the twl smods as hard as I could to not let them ban the levi, but they did it anyway. And now the sysops have crippled pub levis. Aw, poor babies afraid of ship 4? Warbirds and weasels exist for a reason.

Yeah, it was cool when sharks and WBs used to be able to get MVP.