Announcement: The Return of TWL + New League Ops

[Lock]

Everythings else sounds pretty good except roster limits, they are still way too high imo. I would give 2 league squad maximum of 9 player slots.

We are going to look at this further in our upcoming talks. Initial thoughts on this hinder around who can actually show. You also have to take into consideration that using 9/14 will give the opportunity to have rock solid subs for each league. And lets face it, not everyone can make it every Sunday, it isn't easy these days.

But if you have suggestions please continue to post your thoughts in this thread. We want as much input as possible from the community!

[Tiny]

Will splitting the lj/ld from the lb not have the opposite effect? This will allow teams to pick up 1 leaguers to stack ld/lj, then drop them and pick up basers? By they, i mean core group of players. Are we not trying to get people to branch out, less stacking, more folding in lower skill players with potential in other leagues into competitiveness? Yea great, we all want a high level, but we are totally missing the point here imo and will kill the point of twdt, which is closer playing fields and the potential of winning any game. This will of course lead to 3 teams of 8, stomping everyone.

[Majorcrisis2]

Will splitting the lj/ld from the lb not have the opposite effect? This will allow teams to pick up 1 leaguers to stack ld/lj, then drop them and pick up basers? By they, i mean core group of players. Are we not trying to get people to branch out, less stacking, more folding in lower skill players with potential in other leagues into competitiveness? Yea great, we all want a high level, but we are totally missing the point here imo and will kill the point of twdt, which is closer playing fields and the potential of winning any game. This will of course lead to 3 teams of 8, stomping everyone.

The not stacking really has to come from players themself imo. It doesnt matter if we go 2 or 3 league, big or small rosters. For example thunder will most likely stomp most squads if they 'keep' their old core. People keep staying together often and i dont think you can do much about it. Unless you force stuff like in twdt.

[zidane]

Thunder has a 20 man roster and half haven't logged on in years. I don't see the powerhouse gg 3 league squad some of these comments are implying. Lot of people are spreading out.

Strict limits are great but some common sense needs to be used, your whole team can't log on every Sunday.. just not realistic. Off the top of my head I'd say something like 8 for one league, 12 for two league

[Elven]

hi friends

[MHz]

If base is not included in TWL we might as well kiss good bye to 2/3rds of the population we've recently attracted.

[Turban]

rest assured, we have no reason to exclude TWLB from this season. to enlighten you, here's the condensed version of what we are thinking of doing this season (still very much subject to change):

we are planning on allowing players to join a TWLB squad while still being able participate on another TWLD + TWLJ squad. as an example, dreamwin could play as spider for Thunder in TWLB, but is having second doubts whether he will actually get to play javelin or warbird leagues on that squad. instead, dreamwin opts into joining a more specialized squad with his friends to play dueling leagues on that team instead of Thunder. in the event of Thunder winning either TWLJ or TWLD, dreamwin would not be eligible for a medal as he was not part of their allocated dueling rosters.

additionally we will also require players to play in enough games during the season (in both playoffs and regular season) to retain their eligibility for earning an end of season medal. we feel these changes will encourage many players to spread out and join a variety of squads, or create their own. we want to discourage the "content benching mentality" in leagues.

[afghan]

1. allowing players to still practice with their basing squad should they be playing TWLD and TWLJ on a different roster. there are a few options available here to solve his dilemma.

2. stricter roster limits for squads. this is to encourage more teams to form, but we still want to leave some leeway as most of us can not commit into logging on a Sunday every weekend. initial numbers are somewhere around 9/14 for one and two league squads.

3. amount of participating squads per league. we are currently leaning towards a minimum of 8 squads in TWLD and TWLJ, but this number is subject to change and could increase with enough interest from the community.

4. qualification will likely be an open invitation to all squads with minimum amount of games played required to filter out squads with no actual intention of participating in the league.

5. rewarding players based on participation while greatly discouraging benching on a squad by removing a players eligibility for medal should one not meet the participation requirements which are to be announced.

6. various game play changes to TWLB to further increase the competitiveness to the league by eliminating certain random factors from the equation. in essence this means normalization of basing similar to what happened to other leagues many years ago.

1. Seems like this would be hard to do. What are the thoughts on making this possible?

2/3. Strict roster limits are obviously agreed upon but I don't think it should be too strict to the point of expecting a 10 man roster to play/show for both wb/jav every week. 8 team minimum is a good goal for sure. I think that it is unrealistic to think that all 8 teams will be able to compete for the title and there will be players/squads interested in competing/playing without necessarily expecting to compete for the title. I think there could/should be more generous roster limits for squads considered "mid tier" or "low tier" such as squads like paladen and others that will form. You can't expect high % show rates for squads primarily consisting of newer and below average players.

4. I strongly disagree with a minimum amount of TWD games for a squad to qualify. Even with the recent surge in population, most players are older and do not play much on weekdays but will show for the most part on Sundays. The qualifications should only be that a squad is sincerely interested in participating and has the roster number to field a team every week without no shows.

5. Good idea. Maybe requiring playing time in at least 1-2 games?

6. What does this even mean?

[skyforger]

Liking everything turban. Keep it up this is going to be fun

[Turban]

afghan

1. Seems like this would be hard to do. What are the thoughts on making this possible?

one simple solution is allowing players to be on two different rosters under the same username. we are also looking into the possibility of removing the requirement to wear squad tag to participate in practice matches in TWD.


2/3. Strict roster limits are obviously agreed upon but I don't think it should be too strict to the point of expecting a 10 man roster to play/show for both wb/jav every week. 8 team minimum is a good goal for sure. I think that it is unrealistic to think that all 8 teams will be able to compete for the title and there will be players/squads interested in competing/playing without necessarily expecting to compete for the title. I think there could/should be more generous roster limits for squads considered "mid tier" or "low tier" such as squads like paladen and others that will form. You can't expect high % show rates for squads primarily consisting of newer and below average players.

this topic is something we really take our time to think about carefully as too strict of a limit will punish teams without enough so-called "multi league talents" on their rosters looking for a more specialized approach.my personal opinion is that the absolute minimum is 13 players for a two-league squad as it ease the pressure on players to show every single weekend.

we are currently aiming for a minimum of 8 teams in TWLD and TWLJ, however given the current state of the game and growth with many willing to create squads and spread the talent, we might bump this number up to 10 or even as many as 12. we are closely monitoring the situation and will have several backup plans in terms of regular season and playoff formats/structure.


4. I strongly disagree with a minimum amount of TWD games for a squad to qualify. Even with the recent surge in population, most players are older and do not play much on weekdays but will show for the most part on Sundays. The qualifications should only be that a squad is sincerely interested in participating and has the roster number to field a team every week without no shows.

the minimum amount of games required to be qualified would be something ridiculously low as 5 which is pretty much the least you can expect from a committed squad willing to participate. nothing has been set in stone, of course. one thing is for sure and that is we do not want a standard qualification period of any sorts like in olden days.


5. Good idea. Maybe requiring playing time in at least 1-2 games?

see above for already slightly more information, but initial idea is that a player has to play in a few regular season and playoff games with at least few minutes per round for it to count as a full game for eligibility reasons. this is to prevent last minute substitutes to boost the play counter.


6. What does this even mean?

we are looking into some rather major changes to game play in basing as a whole. one could almost call it an overhaul, but i would prefer to call it an improvement.

to give a short example, without going too much into detail about statistics and average of item drops, we are looking into potentially removing greens from the equation and thus normalizing the game from its random factors. there would be no more full charges/shrapnel, bursts, portals, or repels randomly found in greens, however the lack of item drops would be compensated in other ways.

yes, greening is technically considered a skill however it adds a layer of randomness that is not necessary in competitive play. this is my opinion and could very well change in the coming days or weeks.

we will be asking experienced players for their thoughts and compiling a list of their answers, and decide from there. everything about this is still very much subject to change.



EDIT: we will post an announcement thread in the coming days hopefully regarding most changes we have in mind, with tentative starting dates and schedules, formats, et cetera. stay tuned.

[MHz]

rest assured, we have no reason to exclude TWLB from this season. to enlighten you, here's the condensed version of what we are thinking of doing this season (still very much subject to change):

we are planning on allowing players to join a TWLB squad while still being able participate on another TWLD + TWLJ squad. as an example, dreamwin could play as spider for Thunder in TWLB, but is having second doubts whether he will actually get to play javelin or warbird leagues on that squad. instead, dreamwin opts into joining a more specialized squad with his friends to play dueling leagues on that team instead of Thunder. in the event of Thunder winning either TWLJ or TWLD, dreamwin would not be eligible for a medal as he was not part of their allocated dueling rosters.

additionally we will also require players to play in enough games during the season (in both playoffs and regular season) to retain their eligibility for earning an end of season medal. we feel these changes will encourage many players to spread out and join a variety of squads, or create their own. we want to discourage the "content benching mentality" in leagues.

So Dreamwin could play on Thunder for basing and Spastic for wb and jav? So if Thunder and Spastic were in finals for base and jav - he'd play on opposite teams?

Don't really like this because it erodes all the team solidarity that is great about TWL.

I don't know any player that would want to play on separate teams for separate leagues.

[Lock]

So Dreamwin could play on Thunder for basing and Spastic for wb and jav? So if Thunder and Spastic were in finals for base and jav - he'd play on opposite teams?

Don't really like this because it erodes all the team solidarity that is great about TWL.

I don't know any player that would want to play on separate teams for separate leagues.

I was thinking a sort of a "subsquad" system for TWLB. So everyone has their main squad (TWLD/TWLJ) and their subsquad would be for TWLB. If you want to make a TWLB squad you can go ahead and have anyone you want join.You will be teammates with some people you may normally vs, but that just makes things more interesting. In all likeliness, any core you play all leagues with will most likely be on your both your main squad and subsquad.

[Dabram]

Will splitting the lj/ld from the lb not have the opposite effect? This will allow teams to pick up 1 leaguers to stack ld/lj, then drop them and pick up basers? By they, i mean core group of players. Are we not trying to get people to branch out, less stacking, more folding in lower skill players with potential in other leagues into competitiveness? Yea great, we all want a high level, but we are totally missing the point here imo and will kill the point of twdt, which is closer playing fields and the potential of winning any game. This will of course lead to 3 teams of 8, stomping everyone.

I think I agree with this.

The great all-rounders could join together with some great 1 leaguers as a LD/LJ squad and join in another formation with great pure basers as a basing squad. And have much better shot at 3 titles, than they would if they could stack less (have to make roster decisions between 1 leaguers for ld/lj/lb).

The only reason to split LD/LJ from LB is so enough 'non basers' will still participate and play in LB, without having to create a squad good enough to perform in LB? Could be worth a shot if otherwise TWLB only has like 4 teams.

[Ricko]

I think roster limits of 9 for 1 league and 12 for two league squads should be plenty. There really is no way of separating people who want to squad together without taking away an element of competitive gaming with people you like (loyalty, motivation to win for teammates you like etc...), so stacking will always be an issue.

It really is up to our player base to acknowledge this and try to spread out a bit where possible, but lowering roster sizes will at least lead to a greater number of competitive line ups, so the likelihood of one team completely dominating will be reduced.

[Dabram]

afghan

2/3. Strict roster limits are obviously agreed upon but I don't think it should be too strict to the point of expecting a 10 man roster to play/show for both wb/jav every week. 8 team minimum is a good goal for sure. I think that it is unrealistic to think that all 8 teams will be able to compete for the title and there will be players/squads interested in competing/playing without necessarily expecting to compete for the title. I think there could/should be more generous roster limits for squads considered "mid tier" or "low tier" such as squads like paladen and others that will form. You can't expect high % show rates for squads primarily consisting of newer and below average players.

this topic is something we really take our time to think about carefully as too strict of a limit will punish teams without enough so-called "multi league talents" on their rosters looking for a more specialized approach.my personal opinion is that the absolute minimum is 13 players for a two-league squad as it ease the pressure on players to show every single weekend.

we are currently aiming for a minimum of 8 teams in TWLD and TWLJ, however given the current state of the game and growth with many willing to create squads and spread the talent, we might bump this number up to 10 or even as many as 12. we are closely monitoring the situation and will have several backup plans in terms of regular season and playoff formats/structure.

Of course deciding beforehand if a squad is 'high' 'mid' or 'lower' tier is an option, but when/who decides this? Before/after TWL qualification? What to do with roster locks etc?

Looking at TWDT ratings, the 'top' players are TWL starting quality for 2 - 3 leagues. But the lower you go in rank, the less capable players are at holding their own in more than 1 league.
TWL needs clear roster limit rules which A) make it more difficult for the elite core to stack-up but B) without hurting the 'lower' level squads like Paladen in being able to participate (not being able to sign up enough players for TWL to compete in 3 leagues)
I'd suggest something like this (these numbers are a mere suggestion of what I've been reading in this thread).

League(s)	Type	8* max	<7* or <21* total	max total players
1	TWLD or J	6	6	12
1	TWLB	8	6	14
2	TWLD+J	10	6	16
2	TWLD or J +B	12	8	20
3	TWLD+J+B	14	11	25

Meaning: you sign-up for only LD, you can have max 6 players with 8* in LD. You sign-up for TWLJ+LB you can have max 12 players with 8* in either LJ or LB. (so you could stack for LD and play with weaker line in LB). Same for 3 leagues, you can have 14 players with 8* (in any league), so you could max out for 1 league and be weaker in the others.

- This requires that after TWDT a team of Ogron, mythril etc. re-evaluates all ratings of those who signed up for this TWDT season (or keep it as is). Any player who doesn't have a rating yet and wants to play in TWL, contacts TWL staff for a rating (looking at the team it's more than capable enough to set good ratings). (Maybe have *ratings visible on your TWD-profile? not a must).
- There obviously won't be a *limit for lineups in TWL, but a squad like Paladen could realistically need 25 players to be semi-competitive in LD/LJ/LB while Thunder could win all 3 titles with a core of 14 (yet we don't want Thunder to fill up with 25 elite players, however it's okay if they fill up their roster with players ranked <7* (if they want to have backups)).
- This could also still apply if you'd split TWLD/J from LB. Which I'm not against, but I'm siding with Commodo/Tiny, it just feels a bit weird/complicated and wouldn't go against stacking at all..?

5. Good idea. Maybe requiring playing time in at least 1-2 games?

see above for already slightly more information, but initial idea is that a player has to play in a few regular season and playoff games with at least few minutes per round for it to count as a full game for eligibility reasons. this is to prevent last minute substitutes to boost the play counter.

I'd say 25% of games played and/or playing in the finals. If the team needed you for less, than you weren't important enough to get a medal. (don't take away my TWLD medal in retrospect though.. )

6. What does this even mean?

we are looking into some rather major changes to game play in basing as a whole. one could almost call it an overhaul, but i would prefer to call it an improvement.

to give a short example, without going too much into detail about statistics and average of item drops, we are looking into potentially removing greens from the equation and thus normalizing the game from its random factors. there would be no more full charges/shrapnel, bursts, portals, or repels randomly found in greens, however the lack of item drops would be compensated in other ways.

yes, greening is technically considered a skill however it adds a layer of randomness that is not necessary in competitive play. this is my opinion and could very well change in the coming days or weeks.

we will be asking experienced players for their thoughts and compiling a list of their answers, and decide from there. everything about this is still very much subject to change.

Oh boy, I already disliked when basing got changed from pointrace to timed race (I loved those milking strategies back in the day.. :P)

In short: Keep burst/portal/FC greens but not as team greens for terr OR only keep FC greens but not as team and give terr a timed new burst @ 1 min alive) / port @ 2 min alive). No strong opinion on greening shrap/repel (except would hate to play shark without it)
Long:
- For spider: I agree FCs are a strategy for (aggressive) spiders, and I think they're very important for breaking the cram. Pushing together, so you can pick up a green (hopefully extra rep / fc) can be vital to have a chance to breakthrough. Obviously attacking team dies a lot more than the defending team (+ for defending team usually the shark = green for attacking team). I think without FCs you'd see very long and boring crams, camping becomes an even more important strategy.
As for FR-battles I really think it's important to give the aggressive spiders this 'bonus' of picking up more greens = more FCs = better chance at making a decisive move. Again camping will become more popular other wise.
- For Terr: I really dislike the team FCs for terr. It's such random luck, and has nothing to do with the game. As for team burst/portal, 2 options: 1) no more team green ANYTHING for terr, so terr has to start picking up greens itself (new focus for terr, I'd really like this) 2) standard 1 portal @ 2 min alive and 1 burst @ 1 min alive (if possible). My favorite terr of all time was Mythrandir, who played terr as an attacking ship. Having less burst / portals really hurts the terr, the game already has no terrs left who dare to play like Mythrandir would.. Less bursts/portals/fcs = more focus on 100% defense/safe play = booooring. I think no team greens for terr would be a great idea.
- For Shark: I really dislike when a shark has a ton of shraps, but on the other hand, a shark who changes it's gameplay the moment it's loaded with shrap and starts mining/bombing the shit out the FR/base is a proper element of basing to me. The extra rep pick-up, meh, can be a game changer at times, yes/no I wouldn't mind it gone.