**POSSIBLE** changes to TWLB. Feedback required.

[Voth]

didn't know Falconeer had an alt account.

unfortunately I have no logs, but I can speak to people in-game to post their thoughts on the forums.

that's pretty funny - it's a solid attempt to silence people who don't just accept whatever your thoughts or whims on this might be, but as you may already know, i don't really give a shit. you'll always just be KunkKuE hiding in elim to me (did i get the caps right? seriously asking.)

that would be nice - i'd like to hear from all the vets who love your ideas. it would certainly bring more weight than one person deciding what will happen with regards to sweeping changes to settings while we are roughly two weeks away from starting TWL.

[Turban]

didn't know Falconeer had an alt account.

unfortunately I have no logs, but I can speak to people in-game to post their thoughts on the forums.

[Voth]

these kind of comments tend to hurt my brain, and I sincerely hope you do realize there have been several big changes over the years. to name a few but not all, here you go:

- removal of point races in basing
- removal of a tile in basing map layout
- removal of resolution limits in TWLJ and TWLB
- removal of random damage in bullets
- removal of random shrapnel patterns
- removal of full charges in TWLD
- complete rework of lancaster
- several league structure changes over the years (regular season changes, removal of conferences, multiple playoff formats)

now rest assured I am not calling myself an expert on everything despite being one of the top performing players (and basers) in the past 10 or more seasons. I am not ignorant enough to ignore other players opinions and feedback, and I have spoken to many players because these changes affect all ships. I am not going to only listen to what terriers have to say, and I hope you do realize how flawed that would be ..?

I remain confident these changes will be met with more positive feedback.

those changes are all obviously widely known - thanks for the history lesson. i was speaking specifically of terrier settings, obviously - which is why i point to most of the relevant terriers of the last decade telling you that this is a bad idea.

your performance as a baser means nothing more than the next person who performs at your level, whatever ship they may specialize in. however, the general sentiment since changes have been implemented has been negative, yet you continue to act as if you can make changes that everyone will be satisfied with. not so far, at least judging from these comments here - though i can't comment on the apparently extensive discussions you've had in-game with all of these veteran basers. would be nice if they chimed in here and not in a private format - even if you just asked if you could post logs of their comments for the public to view. perhaps it would help others understand why arbitrary decisions are being made despite a reasonable amount of rejection publicly on forums.

[Turban]

true heef... not sure how running a TWL evolved into a full fledged overhaul of settings that have been the norm for decades.

turp: i'd caution you on making arbitrary settings decisions while ignoring the opinions of established players who have been basing for longer than you have. i'm not including myself in that statement, btw - though i do think the new terrier settings are pretty dumb.

these kind of comments tend to hurt my brain, and I sincerely hope you do realize there have been several big changes over the years. to name a few but not all, here you go:

- removal of point races in basing
- removal of a tile in basing map layout
- removal of resolution limits in TWLJ and TWLB
- removal of random damage in bullets
- removal of random shrapnel patterns
- removal of full charges in TWLD
- complete rework of lancaster
- several league structure changes over the years (regular season changes, removal of conferences, multiple playoff formats)

now rest assured I am not calling myself an expert on everything despite being one of the top performing players (and basers) in the past 10 or more seasons. I am not ignorant enough to ignore other players opinions and feedback, and I have spoken to many players because these changes affect all ships. I am not going to only listen to what terriers have to say, and I hope you do realize how flawed that would be ..?

I remain confident these changes will be met with more positive feedback.

[Voth]

This is so true. Sharks are the most important and we all know there are like 4-5 topsharks. I believe ogron said it before, a cram with mattey and zidane is almost unbreakable if they dont fk up themself.

he would know - he only became relevant because of the two of them.





that being said, i've never been relevant, so good for him!

[Majorcrisis2]

TBH the biggest issue with basing over the last 4 or so years has been the dwindling numbers of good sharks which makes all the difference. Not sure how you counter that other than running Sharking schools or as mentioned before, making it easier to break cram.

I've never seen a huge issue with the terr as it is, but then again I'm not as experienced as others in that realm.

This is so true. Sharks are the most important and we all know there are like 4-5 topsharks. I believe ogron said it before, a cram with mattey and zidane is almost unbreakable if they dont fk up themself.

[Voth]

I have spoken with many players in game and pretty much all agreed that it is not fun when the opposing terrier is having a lucky streak and gets to fire multiple bursts in a row.

interested to know who you've consulted besides Ogron, as i've yet to see a terrier who has been an impact on any competitive league in the last 10 years besides him chime in to support this.

[Voth]

.. because it is broken, good sir.

terrier in its old form had a very high potential to win flag room skirmishes alone by firing multiple consecutive bursts in a short window of time, and it all boils down to luck of the draw. I daresay all players with some experience in the ship have experienced those moments where you seemingly are unable to get a single burst or portal for several minutes while the opposing side seems to get every single item, and this is one thing we really wish to eliminate from the basing experience.

we accept the fact that basing should still retain some elements of randomness which is why we brought back greening for repels and full charges, but terrier was most definitely the biggest offender and requires changes.

you say it's broken - but a chorus of veteran terriers disagree with you. those veteran terriers have no doubt been both the victim and the aggressor with regards to random greening of reps/portals - yet nearly all of them are telling you that the uncertainty of this is an established and critical aspect of the game. standardization of the settings further just contributes to less excitement and more boring gameplay. all due respect for what you've done for the zone (and continue to do now), who exactly are you to say that this is a detrimental aspect of the game? you are entitled to your opinion of course, but what makes you the sole decision maker with this while the majority of the remaining active, league level terriers tell you it is not a good idea? it is one man's opinion versus many others who have based much longer than you.

[Turban]

if it isn't broke, why fix it?

.. because it is broken, good sir.

terrier in its old form had a very high potential to win flag room skirmishes alone by firing multiple consecutive bursts in a short window of time, and it all boils down to luck of the draw. I daresay all players with some experience in the ship have experienced those moments where you seemingly are unable to get a single burst or portal for several minutes while the opposing side seems to get every single item, and this is one thing we really wish to eliminate from the basing experience.

I have spoken with many players in game and pretty much all agreed that it is not fun when the opposing terrier is having a lucky streak and gets to fire multiple bursts in a row. It is as far as being skillful as possible. I personally feel confident that the next set of changes will be pretty close to being the perfect solution as it promotes team greening while strengthening the terrier for guaranteed returns, but we will have to see. Try it out.

we accept the fact that basing should still retain some elements of randomness which is why we brought back greening for repels and full charges, but terrier was most definitely the biggest offender and requires changes.

[Voth]

true heef... not sure how running a TWL evolved into a full fledged overhaul of settings that have been the norm for decades.

turp: i'd caution you on making arbitrary settings decisions while ignoring the opinions of established players who have been basing for longer than you have. i'm not including myself in that statement, btw - though i do think the new terrier settings are pretty dumb.

[Heaven]

Nope, at least not for the duration of TWL as it is important to have all commonly used arenas share same settings.

okk yeah true.

"This is due to the fact that there has not been a single player who has yet to give proper feedback for Terrier changes to revert back to their old state. All responses wishing for the changes to revert are based on emotion rather than logic. Terrier in its old form was far from being balanced and many of the games were won or lost by sheer luck."

as for this it seems like you're placing your perceived logic over everyone elses opinion. seems like you believe it to be the right course of action but barely anyone wants it so it doesn't make sense to make the edits based solely what you believe. a case could be made to nerf all ships. and as for proper feedback you're changing the style of play for terrs without the random burst/port/double port aspect so it's much harder to give proper feedback as to why is worse now than previously; it's just easier to state our opinion which is the old settings are better and mass majority seem to agree. Sheer luck and randomness exists for all ships, it's part of the game and it's what keeps us cautious and prudent.

[Turban]

are twbd and go base going to be kept at old settings?

Nope, at least not for the duration of TWL as it is important to have all commonly used arenas share same settings.

[Ricko]

TBH the biggest issue with basing over the last 4 or so years has been the dwindling numbers of good sharks which makes all the difference. Not sure how you counter that other than running Sharking schools or as mentioned before, making it easier to break cram.

I've never seen a huge issue with the terr as it is, but then again I'm not as experienced as others in that realm.

[RoDNeY]

As a quick update to the community, very soon (likely tomorrow) there will be some changes to Terrier.

Instead of getting prized every bursts and portals every 60 and 120 seconds respectively, Terriers will instead get prized bursts and portals every 15 and 30 green eaten by their team. These numbers are very close to the old drop rates. This promotes teams to actively pick up greens to empower their terrier for guaranteed returns and brings back the greening aspect of basing which was a minor complaint brought up by some players. We hope to add a counter for this at some point in the future.
.

I think this is actually a good idea, no clue how it will play out but sounds worth a shot. Only thing that could weigh heavily is how it impacts the cram. Spids and sharks dying inside the cram make for lots of easy green pickups. Cram terr could see that 15 green trigger hit quite often resulting in more cram bursts. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, just more incentive for your team to green you

[Voth]

if it isn't broke, why fix it?

you're looking for reasons to mess with settings when no one cares about terrier settings. as you can see, every active league-level terrier has been adamant that settings should be reverted to normal. a few of them are not necessarily for it or against it, but really? what's the big problem? why are we making the game more predictable and removing the aspect of mystery?

do i think some aspects of basing could be improved with tweaks on settings? yes. is terrier one of them? absolutely not... shouldn't be much of a debate.


edit: and as a side note, yes... make the settings consistent across twl/twdt/twd/base, whatever arbitrary decisions are made. as we saw this past twdt, the differences/inconsistencies from one base arena to the next can make a huge amount of confusion when it comes to things like subbing players back in after they are subbed out, and the appeals that stem from those issues.