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Squadless bencher or valiant loser: My opinion

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  • Squadless bencher or valiant loser: My opinion

    In response to an ongoing discussion in this thread, I'm going to throw this out there to echo violence and others who are stating that there is indeed value in participating on squads not favored to win. This is for those up-and-coming players who are unable to join a contending squad and who are growing tired of losing season after season with non-contending squads.

    I also want to briefly mention that there many valid reasons for sitting out for a TWL season and this is in no way an attack on or judgement of people who choose not to play for a season. This is primarily geared toward the up-and-coming players who are in the specific situation where they are at the crossroads between starting for a squad destined to lose most TWL games versus not joining a squad and spending the entire TWL season on the bench.

    Squadless bencher or valiant loser: My opinion

    I wasn't always a TWLB finals contender. Not even close. That only happened over the last 10 years. Before that, there were some seasons that I struggled to even get recruited, and this was during a time where there were 15+ basing squads.

    Practice makes perfect, however, and whether it was No Surrender, FlagOwners, Brainwave, Defrost, Fuse, Hillpeace, Rejected Basers, Tenure, Juice, Disoblige, Sweet, Expert, Raid, or Fierce, I always worked hard to put together a solid group of borderline talented players who had great rapport with each other and always had fun. I've been asked before how I got so efficient at breaking cram in terr. I never thought about it, but the funny thing is I probably got so good at breaking cram because I spent the first 10-15 years of my terr career getting smoked 15-5 BD after BD for 12 hours a day on bad teams and having to essentially break cram on my own. Sure, at the time when I was playing for these squads I definitely looked over my shoulder and wished I could be leading the way for some of the contending squads, but I'd never trade my time playing for these lower-tier teams to play for the better teams because I wouldn't be half as good today had I sold out to play for squads that didn't need me.

    To give some of the lower/mid-tier players an idea of how the evolution of low/mid-tier to high-tier can come to fruition for someone, two seasons in particular stand out as impactful to my career in terr. The first is during a limbo period in my basing career in 2008 when the squads that would recruit me weren't going to qualify for TWLB (yes, in the past you had to qualify), and I literally could not find a qualified squad that would take a chance on me. With one day left until soft lock, Jeenyuss pulled through for me with Penetrate and recruited me to play as backup to Dead_Rain and Sauro (ray J) in terr. If he didn't stand up for me and recruit me I would have sat out for an entire TWL season against my will. Thanks to Jeen, I played roughly 1,000 BDs over the course of that TWLB season and got to play one TWLB game, my debut game for an actual TWLB contending squad, and as a squad we went on to win TWLB finals (I didn't start). Sure, I didn't get much direct TWLB experience that year, but had Jeenyuss not stepped up for me I wouldn't have been identified with Penetrate and wouldn't have played 1,000 BDs with that year's TWLB winner, both of which got me recruited by another squad the following season. I also built a ton of friendships and made relationships that impacted recruiting strategies and squad formation 5-10 years later.

    The next crucial season for me was in 2012. Although at the time I had already broken out of the mid-tier and was playing at a high level for pretty bad squads for about 4-5 years, it was only when my performance during pre-season on Raid became undeniable that my co-captains (Reaver and Best) told me that they'll take Raid to TWLD and try to win and that I should go win TWLB somewhere since Raid was unlikely to win TWLB that season. At the time, Hydride was performing poorly as starting terr for a TWLB contender, Revenge, so I joined them, made finals, made my mark, and have been contending ever since.

    This is something I think a lot of people forget when they look at groups of elites conglomerating and developing squads together behind the scenes. We all build strong relationships over the many months of each TWL season, and we learn to identify with those people with whom we've competed or played casually with in the past. For example, putting Royal together was easy because it was just a bunch of old friends from early 2000s pub/low-tier basing who wanted to try to win together (cripple, Dwopple, wbm, etc.). For the vast majority of players, getting to the point where other skilled players start to form teams with and around you begins by making an impact in the mid/low-tier, trusting the process of the game, and hard work. Some serendipity is necessary as well, such as Revenge needing a terr at the exact time that Reaver and Best decided to focus 100% on TWLD and tell me to go find somewhere to win TWLB. Some mentorship and support from guys with more power than you is also important (thanks Jeen).

    As much as it may suck to watch the same people compete year after year with only a few unexpected players/squads willing their way into the semi-final/finals every couple seasons, the transformation of TW pub newb to TWL title winner is a process that has been ongoing for roughly 20 years. If you were meant to win a title you have to trust that, with the above attributes (friendships with other similarly ambitious players, engaging the game by joining squads and competing, working hard), you eventually will. I can assure you, however, that sitting out for an entire season out of spite for the aforementioned process will only get you scorned by the squads and players who win titles. Hint, as someone who season after season has recruiting power on a top squad, I'd rather watch you put up 110-60 per game in spid for a struggling team than sit for the entire season. The following season, I'd definitely be more likely to try to play with the guy who was playing like a finals contender on a shitty squad than with the guy who benched the whole season because he knew he wouldn't win. The only acceptable alternative to joining a non-contender is broadening the depth of a contender's bench and learning how to play with the best. Not only will the zone learn to identify you with that squad, making you an "elite by association", which can set you up to get recruited in future seasons, but you may also make an impression on these players, and if you become an undeniable talent you may even earn TWL starting time that season (or the season following).

    Most high-tier players have similar backstories of working hard on less skilled squads and eventually having their talent recognized and used in TWLB due to serendipity or good mentorship. Cripple sharking for Syndicate, renzi spidering for Pandora, Everest terring for -FINAL-, Chief Ustav terring for dicE, Ogron terring for Pandora, TABARNAK sharking for dicE, minkmink spidering for Spastic, Ricko undering for Cobra, kado on Thunder, are all stories that come to mind and are worth asking the mentioned players about if you are an up-and-coming player hoping for something similar to happen to you one day.

    Those of us keeping a close eye on the younger generation have already taken notice of people such as morph, WillBy, Markmrw, afghan, SpookedOne, Banks, and many more who continue to improve and are almost at the point where they either evolve into future TWL contenders or plateau at a level around where they are currently playing.

    In my opinion, pursuing the valiant loser route and working hard to earn a title down the line is more fruitful than not playing at all and hoping one day you can play as a TWL starter for a contending squad.

    Hope this helps the more contemporary up-and-comers. Would be a cool place for people to share similar stories.
    Last edited by Pressure; 04-30-2020, 01:34 PM.

  • #2
    Like you pointed out, people may end up on a plateau of level they are playing. I think the people you are pointing at, they all played as long as you are. Whats the chance of them suddenly improving by playing another season on a low level squad? I really think those chances are small. Someone like afghan doesnt play tw for that 'long' and yea he gets the chance on gun now. I hope he will do great. He has been underrated in twdt a long time too.

    Back in the old days you could create a squad easier. The playerbase was bigger, we all had more time. I played lots of bds with brainwave back then and enjoyed it big time. In those days u learn a lot indeed. Sage picked me up after that, but it was most likely my own fault that I never grew farther. But what I am trying to say, the group is smaller and not everyone is as dedicated to improve anymore. Ofcourse if you WANT it, you can still do it. The best example might be kado. The guy went from a simple 7 to one of the best unders in like 2-3 seasons. He is dedicated to improve insanely. On that side I admire him.

    Its mostly in people their own hands yea. But lets not forget the chances get limited by lower playerbase.

    Comment


    • #3
      It’s also difficult and frustrating to try integrating newer or less skilled players now because most of the “elite” player base whines and cries about playing with them. Just yesterday we had a bd where a certain borrowed player was whining because my players weren’t “elite” enough and should be playing in pub instead. Save that attitude for TWL where it belongs. That mindset doesn’t help the current smaller player base whatsoever. I can tell you for a fact that while they’re still not “elite”, players like panty, Helly, and Dad have shown huge improvement since I first picked them up months ago and they genuinely love playing with and learning from the better players.

      It feels more earned and is more proof of skill to play with these kinds of players rather than worrying about playing with the “selective elite”.
      Last edited by renzi; 04-30-2020, 05:53 PM.
      J-B-Inc> i ddi that duel while doing coke of pawner moms ass

      8:Riverside> UPDATE FOR WEEK 1:
      8:Riverside> I go 4-60 and we lose 0-6

      2:saiyan> [Dec 22 21:22] Rough: yo just came on to tell you, can you go on a real date with a girl (need to be specific here lol) instead of talking to claus on forums about calcs and formulas for a league? Happy holidays btw

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      • #4
        Its no secret I tried sharking in ? go base and I got switched out for Turban because we went behind by a single minute. People ultimately want to win time and time again with trusted methods than take risks, I have noticed people can't stand to lose a single base or dd or w/e in this game and would rather bench and idolize people better than them, pretend their jokes are funny and make out they had a hand in winning.

        I am on Monster because I hate 95% of people in this game and they are in the 5% of people I do like.
        I wouldn't even say were stacked and were probably third likely to win twld at this point.
        British> my 18th tomoz $$
        Sol ^> 18 and scouse, so that two kids you have by now, brit? :)

        i.d.> I just farted and shit myself alittle bit

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        • #5
          What do you mean the younger generation? Morph has been around for about 15 years or more.
          Raazi> this is the only place men chase jessup

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Attacks View Post
            I have noticed people can't stand to lose a single base or dd or w/e in this game and would rather bench and idolize people better than them, pretend their jokes are funny and make out they had a hand in winning.
            This has been true for this game's entire lifespan. It's always been a thing, which is probably why the population took such a nosedive over the many years instead of growing any larger, regardless of what people have tried. At this stage, the only people still 'good' are those who never really quit. There is no 'younger generation' as Pressure put it. The people who even log in these days have played for at least a decade, if not much longer than that. Most just don't give a fuck, because who really takes this game seriously anymore? People aren't really getting 'better' either, but more so are just being more consistent by playing, while those who quit or play very sporadically become less consistent. If those trends reverse at any point, the older players will be the best again, same as it always was. Nobody is coming out of pub to become a great new TWL player. They simple are replacing people who quit. Maybe they would've been great had they been given a chance in years past, but that wasn't the case. It is what it is.

            As for benchers who remain on the bench, that's all they will ever be good at and all they will ever strive for, because their entire identity is based around being a bencher on a good squad, rather than a mediocre starter on a bad one. Everyone else who joins stacked squads always says the same thing attacks does, which is 'they are the people I like' and leave it there. That same excuse has hurt the game throughout the years into becoming what it is today, but that's how everyone is really. It's not contained only in a few squads or people, so the blame is shared among everyone. When things haven't changed with squad stacking and all the rest even 20+ years later, it never will. I'm not sure why anyone cares to try changing it now. You're about 15 years too late.
            RaCka> imagine standing out as a retard on subspace
            RaCka> mad impressive

            Comment


            • #7
              Pressure My post was only meant to avoid other people asking me why I wasn't playing TWL this season. But you know, virus and all, we're all bored so why not I'll bite into the conversation.

              I have been apart of so many "farm" teams where we recruited pubbers, took the time to train them, then brought them to TWL and got stomped with said pubbers. I have done this many times and know what it gets me? Just added stress I don't need right now. I have stuff going on IRL and just honestly don't have the patience for it. People want to win, especially in TWL. When teams go on losing streaks in TWL it becomes a flame fest. When I came back to the game and joined up with marksmin, it made want uninstall and go back to being retired.

              Things are not what they used to be with 20+ teams fighting for spots to enter TWL, it's really hard to bring new talent into TWL with players that have been playing the game for 15-25 years. I will continue to participate in DT, and I might join a TWD squad again, I can help participating players practice for TWL. I am just not playing TWL myself. I did my time with it and I am done. If my skill has capped and I am not good enough to get on to a good squad for TWL, oh well I am fine with just not participating in it ever again honestly.

              I just came off participating in THREE straight DT, including attempting to captain one myself since nobody would step up (which we ended up 2nd to last place, but I still showed for every single game and didn't yell at anyone all season, go me!). Followed up with playing a basingcup I didn't really have the time for but played anyways, maybe cut me a break eh?
              Last edited by Nipple Nibbler; 04-30-2020, 10:58 PM.
              Siaxis> yo it was way harder to kill Rage then beam in that dtd

              rylo> 1.5 mil for whoever kills renzi
              (10 seconds later)
              rEnZi is out. 17 kills 10 deaths. 2 players remain.
              P TW-Pub> rylo sent you $1,500,000, you now have $4,047,199.

              If you're going to do a thing you should to it to the best of your ability or don't do it at all.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yea I appreciate your post thix. There are few players in this zone I respect and you’re one of them. It really depends on the person if they have the time and determination tbh, if you really love playing tw, can ignore the hate.. then yeah thriving in this zone CAN be doable.. but yea my patience has worn thin, at a competitive stand point, anyways.

                For me, joining a squad that has no chance just isn’t worth me coming in to either be benched or lose. If a squad needs a player who can some times make it, I’m down though.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Unlimited View Post
                  Yea I appreciate your post thix. There are few players in this zone I respect and you’re one of them. It really depends on the person if they have the time and determination tbh, if you really love playing tw, can ignore the hate.. then yeah thriving in this zone CAN be doable.. but yea my patience has worn thin, at a competitive stand point, anyways.

                  For me, joining a squad that has no chance just isn’t worth me coming in to either be benched or lose. If a squad needs a player who can some times make it, I’m down though.
                  I really liked having you on Envy your a good dude have improved immensely in a short duration of time.
                  Geio> Down to chill and play that
                  Best> rather log off and attempt to suck my own d

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only person to ever let me base for them in this game was Stayon, he played me in shark/terr every single match I showed up to that season which was like 80% of matches, ended up winning a twdt-b championship. " thx Stayon, was mad fun" Now I cant even get borrowed into a bd, the 2020 basing community is ughhh, we'll just say "somthing" :\
                    Last edited by olde; 05-01-2020, 12:29 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The answer depends on the people you are squading with and its not particular to one division. It is the same scenario that happens in all divisions but exacerbated in Jav and Base due to those divisions requiring a more varied skillset.

                      There are loads of factors to consider... What is your squad mates perception of your ability, how much they like you, how much the rest of the squad likes you, If they are real life friends or not and so would be bias regardless... etc etc

                      I am the kind of player that enough is not enough. I want to play every division regardless of my actual skill level. If I lose to someone, then I can only get better by playing against them and that requires being picked. What is my skill level? I am #1 in every ship in every division of course. But that isn't the perception of everyone else and I need to prove that to them... alongside the problem that people have set in stone ideas of what division a person plays that takes decades to change if at all.
                      Ogron - "Lifetime Achievement Award recipient for 10* attitude [Ardour]"

                      ranked #2 in ogrons signature of: TWL's most irrelevant nobodies pubtrash bozos with 0 titles.

                      TWLD Season 19 #70th Best Warbird
                      TWLB Season 19 #56th Best Spider

                      TW Greatest no-shipper 2002 - Present

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is no farm squad and the basing community is as insulated, if not more so, than ever. This post is the TW equivalent of an "OK Boomer" post. The game just isn't the same as when you were coming up Thix.

                        There is no place to go to be a "valiant loser" in the first place, the lowest-tier twlb squad still has players that could easily start for other basing squads. I've been playing this game 15 years and I still can't get borrowed in twbd, let alone some poor guy from pub. You're asking these guys to sit quietly for 2-3 hours in spec waiting for a chance to maybe play for 25 minutes and likely get shittalked to

                        The basing community has always been insular, hell ?go base started out in a private arena (#mythrandir anyone?), but as the population has dwindled there is just no space for newbs. Maybe I'd be singing a different tune if people were willing to run two bds simultaneously more often, but even now the preferred action is to have 20 top-tier basers sit in spec and see who can !accept the fastest when the game is over.

                        In summary, I appreciate where you're coming from but you're being delusional.
                        Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
                        Message has been sent to online moderators
                        2:BLeeN> veh yes
                        (Overstrand)>no
                        2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
                        2:BLeeN> ok then no
                        :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
                        (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

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