Terr Stats (S23 Regular Season)

[Jones]

Dead_Rain is #1 anyway

[midoent]

interesting thread. IMO, ultimately it's not about kills or teks or deaths per game. The rating should be based on how much flag time the terr earns/loses, which is hard to quantify.

[Nipple Nibbler]

Claushouse

it's probably just minor input differences since it is done manually, a mistake or two on your side

I will gladly un-hide my manual data sheet if anyone wants to look it over, and I will correct any mistakes if there are any. I only have it hidden because there are 12 sheets, and I am trying to keep it tidy.

you got 0 teks, you only managed to get 6 minutes of time which means your rec didn't help your team win

So teks are part of your formula, yet even after I tell you Pressure has 8 teks not 6, you still leave it wrong. This appears like you don't honestly care how accurate your stats are, you just want to boost your ego up, especially since you are only doing something for terriers, the ship you play.

Also at a quick glance if your kills per game and deaths per game are really kills and deaths per 30 minutes they might be wrong as well, I will have to double check my formulas to be sure, but I do have "KP30" and "DP30" columns on my terr stats page.


So unless my stats are wrong, every single category I checked of yours has errors. In the case of games played, I understand why you don't put partial games in, I assume this is to more accurately calculate spider kills and time stats.

[Nipple Nibbler]

I took stats from my data and quickly put this together, yours on left mine on right. I did not bother checking spider or time stats after finding errors in literally every category so far. The errors are minor, but they are there. Regardless of weather it is on my side or yours, maybe we can work together at some point and figure out where one of us are messed up for consistency?

I add partial games, so anyone with different GP count will have different stats. For K/D I use real actual numbers not the ones adjusted to 30 mins, so that will explain both of those. This still does not explain the kills and deaths being different with the rest. With my numbers zizu has the most kills per 30, not you. I also find it strange you only added you to top 5 of all time for this and not him.

[Rab]

rounding

[Nipple Nibbler]

rounding

I rounded up like you're supposed to do in math, and I make the assumption Clause does this as well. This would not explain zizu for example 48.4 KP30 on my sheet and 47.5 on his.

Also +1 to what rab said earlier

1) mikkiz

2) ogron/pressure

3) tim/zizu

I would add

4) oder

5) everyone else, they all sucked ass.


I am sure if oder played more he could probably compete for 3rd as he is underrated in terr. If zizu didn't get stuck on rapid he might be able to compete for 2nd, and spastic would probably have made playoffs.

Unbias opinion on the the whole pressure vs claushouse thing:

Gun has better spiders, fire has better sharks. You have added spider kills to your formulas but there isn't really a way to calculate sharks into the equation so the formula is a little unbalanced. Both are on GOOD teams and if you use raw stats without including their teamates, the stat differences between the two are very minor, clause has more kills per 30, but pressure has 2 more teks. Pressure also has less deaths per 30, while Clause has a slightly better k/d. The actual terr stat difference are very minor and probably not worth debating over when mikkiz is still doing better than both.


I have unhidden (is that even a word?) my basing data sheet, if anyone finds errors anywhere in it let me know. Aside from the notes column which was just for myself, which helped me figure things out like morph changing his ship a billion times in a bd.

[ogron]

I took stats from my data and quickly put this together, yours on left mine on right. I did not bother checking spider or time stats after finding errors in literally every category so far. The errors are minor, but they are there. Regardless of weather it is on my side or yours, maybe we can work together at some point and figure out where one of us are messed up for consistency?

I add partial games, so anyone with different GP count will have different stats. For K/D I use real actual numbers not the ones adjusted to 30 mins, so that will explain both of those. This still does not explain the kills and deaths being different with the rest.

There is no difference between our stats, except I forgot to input teks in 1 game out of 60, which I've corrected, and I derived the KDA column from KPG/DPG instead of just Kills/Deaths, they're identical when using that, which I guess I should have done, and has no relationship to the GameScores. There was also a formula error for Aprix, which I fixed.



I don't know why this required a 3 post thesis from you over multiple days, when it has no real impact on the crux of my post, which was not traditional stats and not competing with the nice work you've done in your thread cataloging them.

All you did was detract from the discussion.

This is what is interesting to me, and what the thread is about:



A formula that is factoring in spider performance then adding a +25% modifier to tim and a -9% modifier to thix, where it isn't only factoring in Kills, KDA, Teks, but also things like Time Won as a major factor.

Or Thix arguing that the formula doesn't count your sharks, which I disagree with as I think spidering is a function of sharking (there's also no way to measure sharks using stats.) Or this discussion about tim, as my formulas rate him much higher than traditional stats do.

You can also ask questions like "is Thix's 8.1 KDA good when his spiders are +671, and Mikkiz with a similar +766 kills in spider has a 12.1 KDA?"

[Turban]

Nipple Nibbler

I have double checked the numbers, and it definitely looks like Claushouse made some mistakes with his data inputting or formulas? I see that he used kills per 30 minutes for most of his statistics (such as spider kill differences) which makes sense for game score.

For those who are curious, here are the summarized statistics with all relevant information with no ratings because who the cares how these players rank with such a small sample size.






.. and as an added bonus, here are terr statistics after we exclude all Rapid results. They went 0-10 in the league, and most of their games were unfortunately stomps.






I kept it as simple as possible. I did not bother listing every single terrier (as I doubt there's any interest for that kind of a thing), nor did I bother to try to make it pretty because I don't care for this ship at all.

Sp K = Spider Kills (your team)
Sp KPM = Spider Kills per minute (your team)
Sp Diff = Spider Kill Difference (your team vs enemy teams)
Sh RPD = Average Shark RPD

Enjoy.

[Turban]

Oh, looks like I replied before seeing Claushouses response. Whoops.

[beam]

I'm with turb that rapid games shouldn't be counted as they were a complete joke so running the #s on just the other 8 games makes the most sense if you want more accurate stats for a season that had 5/6 competitive teams

[Pressure]

Nipple Nibbler

I have double checked the numbers, and it definitely looks like Claushouse made some mistakes with his data inputting or formulas? I see that he used kills per 30 minutes for most of his statistics (such as spider kill differences) which makes sense for game score.

For those who are curious, here are the summarized statistics with all relevant information with no ratings because who the cares how these players rank with such a small sample size.






.. and as an added bonus, here are terr statistics after we exclude all Rapid results. They went 0-10 in the league, and most of their games were unfortunately stomps.






I kept it as simple as possible. I did not bother listing every single terrier (as I doubt there's any interest for that kind of a thing), nor did I bother to try to make it pretty because I don't care for this ship at all.

Sp K = Spider Kills (your team)
Sp KPM = Spider Kills per minute (your team)
Sp Diff = Spider Kill Difference (your team vs enemy teams)
Sh RPD = Average Shark RPD

Enjoy.

I know I said I wouldn't respond again, but turban's post just cracked open how obsolete your joke of a stat column is and now I can't help myself.

In surgical research, when studies are performed to determine if an additional intervention decreases intraoperative blood loss compared to the same surgery without the additional intervention, sometimes there may be "statistically significant differences" in decreased blood loss that only amount to, for example, 30 mL less than without the intervention (ie, a very small amount of blood). We call this finding "statistically significant", but "clinically insignificant". Here are a few points explaining why this concept is relevant to this discussion:

1) Turban's statistics show that across 8 games, Gun spiders totaled 291 more kills than opposing teams. This averages to roughly 36 more kills from Gun per game. So claushouse's argument is that Gun putting up an average of 36 more kills per game is enough to deflate their terr's performance and statistically assume that he has underperformed on a presumably higher performing team. In what basing match in TWL, TWDT-B, or basing cup history has one team out-killing another by 36 kills ever made a significant impact on the outcome of a game or on a terrier's performance?

2) By your logic, claushouse, if spider stats are a reflection of shark performance, then zidane and mcvicar are worse than hulk and WillBy. Do you also believe this?

3) Gun's SpKPM (spider kills per minute) is 18.52 versus Fire's 18.39. Does anyone here actually believe that since Gun averaged 0.13 more kills per minute (in other words, just 3.9 more kills per 30 minutes) more than Fire, that spider stats should be deflating Pressure's gamescore so dramatically?

4) Fire had a total spider kills of 3694 versus Gun's 3473. So Fire spiders amassed over 200 more total kills on the season than Gun spiders. Not that this holds any weight, since we already know that both Gun and Fire spiders averaged roughly 18.5 kills per minute. Just worth noting.

5) Fire's average shark RPD was 2.94, Plade's average shark RPD was 2.98, and Gun's average shark RPD was 2.88. I bet if you ran a t-test, Gun's average RPD would be statistically significantly lower than Fire and Plade's. But I'm not going to sit here telling you I am a better terr than you because I averaged fewer deaths with statistically worse sharks, because realistically how different is an RPD of 2.88 (Gun) compared to an RPD of 2.94 (Fire)?

Multiple people in this thread have pointed out how biased and inaccurate your "stats" are, yet you are so blinded with baseless arrogance that you just keep spewing nonsensical essay after essay despite fact after fact after fact proving that your interpretation of the data is simply wrong. The proof is in the pudding. Your integration of spider stats is fallacious and severely skewed to benefit you and to try to put yourself in the same discussion as Mikkiz. Other than Mikkiz averaging much fewer deaths, and you and Zizu averaging higher kills per game, the stats are not much different across the top 3 terrs, and most importantly, when accounting for spiders and sharks, claushouse played with statistically better sharks in front of him and with spiders yielding a nearly equivalent SpKPM (spider kills per minute) compared to Gun and Plade, yet still couldn't finish the season with fewer average deaths than Pressure (who has played zero regular season games sober, by the way).

Why don't you run a paired t-test and show us whether there is a statistically significant difference between Gun and Fire's total spider kills, spider kills per minute, or RPD? Or between the individual terr statistics? Show us some real comparative analytics. Yeah, small sample size is limiting, but we should be able to see some p-values. Be warned, even if someone does show that there is a statistically significant difference between any stats among terrs, the extremely subtle differences between such stats will almost certainly render any "statistically significant" findings "TWL insignificant".

The point of this reply is not to argue that my gamescore should be higher (I averaged fewer deaths than you and don't care about anything else statistically, if I can even say I care about anything statistically). It's simply to point out and emphasize your flawed, self-aggrandizing attempt at giving yourself a pat on the back before Mikkiz and Plade make you completely irrelevant for the rest of the season in less than 2 weeks.

[Turban]

As an added note, which is relevant to this discussion, I would like to say that sharks play one of the biggest roles in basing and directly contribute how well a terrier can perform.

In the end based on my observations from various replays and while playing on my own team, I feel the only terrier that has consistently played well (one could say nearly flawlessly) has been Mikkiz where as other terriers have definitely been fumbling at times. It will be an interesting to see which players rise to the occasion for the playoffs.

Nevertheless all statistics are subjective. I firmly believe that spider kills do not directly correlate to always winning the game. This game is way more complex than that and the only time you really see large swings in kill difference is when there is a big loss. As an example this season Gun, Fire, and Plade had a combined of 10 losses during the regular season with four of the losses actually having a positive spider kill difference. This further reinforces my point about spider kill difference not being the be-all and end-all of statistical analysis when it comes to basing, but rather it only plays a minor role and thus should not be weighed as heavily.

[ogron]

lol, I'm glad to see Turban trying to repair his relationship with Thix after he whatsapped him 1500 messages crying about him trashing his terring publicly and spending the entire season (along with other Gun starters) calling him awful all year. I see the playoff run has truly started.

Excluding games is hilarious, nice fucking bullshit turb.

1) Rapid played us extremely well with Zizu:



The kill difference was 15, and I outkilled Zizu by 12, so the difference was fucking 3 spider/shark kills.

2) Fire was the only team to play Spastic with Zizu as the main terr twice, every other team played P_L or Oder for 50% of their games.

You got way softer matches against them. Are we going to exclude all those games where you didn't face Zizu too?

3) Fire faced pretty much full lines the entire way through, including full lines against Pandora.

Meanwhile, tim lagged out of an early game where they got stomped and didn't play against someone, then Pandora was missing several players Week 5, where we didn't play them.

Are we going to exclude all those games, too?

Stop trying to repair your relationship with Thix with this garbage.

[Pressure]

Stop trying to repair your relationship with Thix with this garbage.

He doesn’t have to try, we never had problems. Turb talking about my subpar performance because he has higher expectations of me isn’t an issue. Never had a problem with turban. Plus, he remained pretty objective in his posts, don’t think he was trying to help me. The stats are the stats, if they help my argument that has nothing to do with mine and his friendship.

You look really desperate resorting to bashing my friendship with turban. How upset did others posting the real statistics make you?

All I see is you kicking and screaming that turban made a post and it didn’t benefit your case.

Also, removing Rapid games should technically hurt my stats since my games were low killing and my spiders owned, genius.

[ogron]

I think you have brain damage, my stats were completely accurate except I forgot to add teks in 1 out of 60 games. It caused a minor alteration to 1 out of 120 gamescores, and had no material impact. Learn how to read.