TWLB Semi-finals Plade vs. Fire Appeal

[Dabram]

Know when to stop digging your hole Rab, you might still want to get out of it at some point..

[Rab]

Dreamwin is a good dude I don't know what was running through his head at the time but it obviously looks bad that he's done it twice in 4 months. Even still, just from my experiences talking to him, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't malicious.

It may not have been malicious that it ended up being invisible, but it definitely was malicious that it was used to avoid the death timer twice. But tbh I respect the general point you're making, and I'm less bothered about banning dreamwin than I am about actually getting the win that was stolen from us. Banning dreamwin doesn't matter if a forfeit is the outcome. If a replay is the outcome then banning dreamwin becomes very important.

[afghan]

You're talking out of your ass because obviously recent rulings override older ones in terms of setting precedent. What you did in TWL 10 years ago has no bearing on the fact that jupes result in replays NOW, had a jupe occurred at the end of this game and been appealed it would result in a replay. The invisible jav being worse than that (because it's not well known + there's no way to avoid it) means nothing weaker than a replay should be possible as an outcome.

I’m only posting in this thread to call out people making ridiculous posts. Rab - the more you post results in you looking dumb and therefore reflecting poorly on your squad. I know you have a big ego and would never consider changing your tune but I suggest you quit posting for the sake of your squaddies. You claim that new rulings on jupe sets precedent but here we have:

This is difficult, and there are multiple ways of thinking about it, but I like this one..

We can't really say who would have won had this jupe not occurred.
Therefore nobody was denied the win on the basis of this jupe alone.
No crime, no punishment. So I would not replay.
Also don't want to set a precedent that any game with a jupe needs a replay.

Appeal has been denied.

Reasoning: We cannot reasonably say it changed the outcome of the game. The flag was juped for about 46 seconds, if this 46 seconds was taken from PL's time and given to FLA they would still had less time on the clock. (14 mins 14 seconds with flag/cram for PL vs. 13 mins 34 seconds for FLA.

Jupes will only be considered for appeal in extreme circumstances where it is clear that it had a pivotal role in the outcome of the match, and where the jupe was not an error by the team (ramming mines etc.)

[Rab]

Know when to stop digging your hole Rab, you might still want to get out of it at some point..

I'm not in a hole, I'm right.

[Rab]

I’m only posting in this thread to call out people making ridiculous posts. Rab - the more you post results in you looking dumb and therefore reflecting poorly on your squad. I know you have a big ego and would never consider changing your tune but I suggest you quit posting for the sake of your squaddies. You claim that new rulings on jupe sets precedent but here we have:

Comparing a jupe which was debatable whether it changed the outcome or not with an invisible jav which clearly changed the outcome is very disingenuous.

[zidane]

lol afghan, I also have approved appeals over jupes too by the way.. but good selective picking to fit your argument :laugh:

[Singer]

Hey guys!

In true Ogron fashion, I feel like doing this super cool mental gymnastic by using some weird ass obscure metaphor to explain how this current drama situation has been going on so far:

Now imagine this guy called Darwin being at the club, just doin his thing and poppin some shots while he sees from the corner of his eyes this super hot Fiery girl, in the heat of the moment without thinking too much about it he quickly comes up to her pretty strongly by putting his hand on her shoulder and saying he wants to give that ass the double guac guac super smash action 9000 that she’ll never forget.

Now that Fiery girl is taken back by surprised and she just can’t help but let it happen in the moment, never did anyone ever confront her like this before, she was shocked, her world got rocked so hard that night and all her friends in the club knew it was coming since she’s a dirty little girl with secrets of her own.

Now the day after she wakes up still all confused, terrified, feeling like she got defiled a little bit and she realized that she could pull out some footage from the club and she decided to show everyone how strongly Darwin came up to her and she decided to make it seem like Darwin was a rapist and that he should be in jail for ever laying his hand on her like that.

She goes on to get her other girlfriends to join her into a #metoo movement to try to put the law into her own hands and influence people to hate on Darwin but all this does after some investigation is show how much this girl is an hypocrite who’s just as dirty and as guilty as the next one and that in this case Darwin did not break any rules and should not go to jail.

In fact Darwin could potentially be suing the girl back for trying to assassinate his character and call him a rapist while the law doesn’t convict him of anything of the sort. Honestly crazy that this girl has ever been in power to make decisions over anything at all in the past.

Stay tuned for this epic finale of GUAC GUAC SMASHER D!!!

[Rab]

Singer uses the smaller bullet graphics.

[Pressure]

Hi, BOMBED here. Just wanna clear a few things up since I've been name dropped twice. I still stand by my statement that I don't feel like we won..... BUT that was purely from a view point coming from having 0 knowledge of tw's background. To me it was clearly cheap at the time, BUT lag attaching in eg was also considered cheap before everyone started doing it. So if its a KNOWN glitch and has actually been used repeatedly I don't see how this is an issue. You can't pick and choose how a glitch is used, either it's against the zones rules to do it or its allowed. I will continue to stand behind my original view point that it felt like we were going to lose before this happened. Of course anything can happen but that's how I felt. I don't know tw's history on last minute pushes etc, so again it was a view point from lack of experience/knowledge.

Either get rid of every usage of this bug or accept it as part of the game in whichever form it takes. I don't think dreamwin did it with a cheating or malicious mindset, I literally seen people in the clip calling out that DW was going to do it before he actually did. To me that just shows tw's history of using these glitches has become normalized and isn't anything out of the ordinary. Especially after reading even more on these forums and realizing it goes down to sharks and others also using it. I do think it should be absolutely removed from trench wars if possible, but if it hasn't been yet then it can't be enforced only when its beneficial for one team.

Welcome to TW. Glad you had the chance to play and breakout this season. Those of us who were watching closely knew that it was going to happen one way or the other.

Either way that was absolutely the most fun I've had in tw to date and wouldn't mind replaying the games at all. The skill level between the two teams being so similar is something that rarely happens in extreme-games. It's a shame that things haven't been ironed out to completely avoid moments like this, but at the same time the entire match felt extremely epic. From watching the clip the people in spec also seemed to really enjoy these matches.

Sentiment like this is the reason many of us are still so passionate about this game. That was a fucking epic TWLB semi-final indeed, with classic TWL spam to boot. Regardless of the outcome, I think everyone who got to see that series live can agree it was incredible and one for the books, as this entire season has been, and will continue to be, even if attempts to defame the winner occur prospectively.

[Dabram]

Beam/Hellkite good posts, I agree, and I think most of us actually do.

Had Fire appealed for a replay of R3 because you felt the bug/glitch in the game mechanics became the decider on a game which was way to close for this kind of outcome, it would've felt very reasonable from your POV. (Basically: you should've let Hellkite write it).
Whoever is in charge of ruling on this, could've reviewed the video from the moment just before Plade was about to break, to the moment Fire were trying to recover their cram, to the moment it was broken by the (to some) glitching jav, to the moment Fire lost the upper hand in the deciding FR battle, which was than won by Kess (goat underspider). Plade/Fire are both going to be biased when they rewatch, I know I am, so our opinions if it's 99%-1% or 50%-50%, is a waste of your own time. And yes Plade probably would've appealed for a rematch of R3 if in Fire's position.

However Zidane choose to declare (as a TWL op) that DW was deliberately cheating when changing to jav to throw in a Hail Mary bomb, a move which most of us has seen done a ton of times before, just not with the glitch (maybe bots changed over time?). (Ogron will give you the succes ratio of that move in a few months of research unless Nipple beats him to the punch )
Imo this appeal should never have been about if there was any malicious intent with DW's move yes or no, there's no way for you to proof that, and this is where it became ugly. I don't get why someone would assume that to the point of wanting someone to be perm banned from TWL. With demanding a forfeit + perm ban as a TWL op, what kind of reaction did you genuinely expect from Plade and this community?

So Zidane made his bed, and now he has to lie in it (and Rab will happily keep him company). He left himself open for a ton of digging to be done into his own past concerning the use of this same game mechanic, and it seems to be more infamous than I for one knew, yet I don't even want to know or care about that. But now you see a lot of people who are more than happy to come out of the woodwork to jump on Zid's supposed hypocrisy. Neither should've been necessary imo, and I hope we can quickly move past all this.

Yet I cannot agree that someone is going to state that this bug has been perfectly okay to use as a shark to quickly reset your bad mines during your spawn time and if not during the last moments of a close game, but becomes a bannable offense if done when changing to jav to throw in a hail mary near the end of a game. Fuck outta here with that nonsense.

For fair games in the future, it would be great if any unfixed game-mechanical errors are brought up before we rush into back2back leagues. We either fix the bots or if impossible we make clear rules about the known bugs. And if there happen to be new glitches during a season, we make sure there are rules/fixes for that the next time around. That seems to be the most unbiased and fair way to go on about these things. In sake of the integrity of these leagues and all (has that ever really been a thing..?) When it comes to this bug, I think everyone agrees we need to get rid of it (well except for maybe a well known shark )

/hakuna matata y'all!!

[afghan]

Comparing a jupe which was debatable whether it changed the outcome or not with an invisible jav which clearly changed the outcome is very disingenuous.

where did I compare a jupe to an invisible jav?

And Zidane i know you have approved jupes and I don’t think you handled the jupes wrongly in the past. The point was for rab saying the jupes at the end of games result in approvals when in this instance it didn’t.

[Wirah]

Appeal Status: REPLAY GRANTED

After much consideration over the past few days we have come to a decision regarding the Plade vs Fire TWLB Semi-Final appeal.

As we know, our league ops are involved in the dispute and therefore the decision falls to the Trench Wars sysops.


Round 3 will replayed.

The round will start at 0:00 - 0:00. There will not be a timer penalty.


The bug is an identified issue and the fix exists in the twcore codebase under the `disable_change_switch_at_respawn` flag. We will work on deploying the patch.

It is difficult to determine the level to which this 'bug' is public knowledge or even considered a normal method of play (last minute jav switch panic). It seems that issue has been hiding in the woodwork for a long time (and it has been used in the past without consequence). We are going to fix the bug, replay the round and move forwards.


We feel that Fire losing to an exploit during a critical moment of a semi-final is not acceptable.

We also feel that Fire's appeal asking for a full forfeit is too severe.


Let this be a warning to *All Players*: Do not abuse known tricks, even in desperation. Just don't take the risk.

To the people calling for dreamwin to suffer maximum punishment… dreamwin will not be banned from the zone or TWL. He is also eligible to participate in the replay. We feel that Plade being denied their round 3 win is suitable response in this instance and a full replay is a fair outcome.

We will work with league ops to determine the timeslot for the replay (pencil in immediately before TWLB finals). Expect an update to the SCHEDULE thread.

The website will be updated to reflect this decision over the next 24 hours.