The circle jerk which is TWD basing.

[viop11]

y wouldnt u call out the individuils who r doing wut u r saying? wuts the issue w/ callink efery1 out

[Vehicle]

Did you control for the amount of 6/7*'s versus the amount of 9/10*s? I have a feeling that the giant difference in the number of players in each rating would effect your numbers.

S@@R is on Juice's roster so take that for what it is.

[ogron]

A small group of persons subjective experiences over a small sample size of 1-2 weeks may not reflect the overall experience of the majority of the player base over a larger sample size.

Vehicle and apt's frustrations across a fortnight may be valid, but accepting their feelings as an accurate reflection of reality and then replying to this thread as fact creates an echo chamber filled with recrimination, while being devoid of facts.

I looked at every player with over 95 games played in 2020 in spider. Here is the breakdown of games played by star level:



The data says 6*s and 7*s played 2000 more BDs than 9*s and 10*s.

Renzi, Spastic, and many other veterans have gone out of their way to include, borrow, and help newer players. EGers were BDing 20x a day on Team Jizz. Most of these players all received tons of playtime in TWDT-B, with a star cap system that has bent over backwards to cater to lower tiered players.

They all quit anyway. EGers got bored. 6*s like Panty, Scurvy, and Helly were constantly included and started in basing games and still left. Rentention level correlates strongly with talent level. That's why 90% of the zone has quit but 45% of the best basers to ever play are still here.

So 2020 was a record year for inclusion, with more TWBD games played than 2003, and low stars getting tons of exposure, an incredible 3 TWDT seasons that require newbie inclusion... and most of them still left anyway.

There are extensive resources for learning and excelling in base, like my comprehensive spidering guide, along with a2m and my sharking guide. I've trained over 60 new players in private arenas over the years, and there have been some nice successes, training Kando II in #twlb and starting him in BDs 5-6 years ago. He went on to become a TWLB champion in 2019 as Kado. But I mean ultimately he wanted it, and had the talent. He did 95% of the work. You can only do so much. Players either want to make the investment to improve or they don't. Terminator, for example, does. I worked with Terminator 17.5 and he's made tremendous progress in 2020 and went from being a 6* to a TWDT-B champion in 2021 and looks like he's probably an 8* now. Raiji, Azuline, and others have also made nice improvements.

There have been several hundred unique visitors to the guide, and I feel like the quality of spidering at the lower level has improved quite a bit and helped players become stronger basers.

The borrowing feature by staff has been a godsend to the game and probably been the biggest success in the game's history. There are tons of veterans who have gone out of their way to help newer players. There are now guides available. When I took over TWDT in 2014, there was 1 low star spot, regular season only. I doubled the amount of low-star spots, and made it mandatory for the playoffs. Then I tripled the amount. In base I quadrupled it. Then Mythril took over in 2019 and supercharged it with the Star Cap system.

Simply put, many of us have put thousands of hours into addressing these issues over the years.

Short of BIET or qan adding bots you can BD to improve and play whenever you want, I'm not sure much else can be done.

Many of us, for years, have asked who wants to be borrowed in blue then added whoever responds in chronological order. Most basers are fairly inclusive. You can cherry pick examples to make anyone look bad if you want, which is what this thread honestly feels like.

1. Every time s@@r has asked to be added, someone tried to add him only to realize he's not on TWD roster, and seems incapable of figuring out how to do it. There is nothing malicious going on.
2. Juice adds 7 newbies then expects a TWLB contender with four 10*s who beeped and are added to somehow make the game competitive. The game turns into a 15-1 joke and kills base. It might help if you borrowed 3-4 elite players and mixed them in with the players you're training
3. Caps generally aren't going to borrow newer players if their line is significantly worse, because they're trying to get a competitive, close, balanced, fun game and need to borrow veterans to achieve that goal
4. TWBD squads are allowed to play high-level games with 16 veterans in. It feels like there is a sense of entitlement that good players aren't allowed to play each other and practice for TWL. This rarely ever happens, yet this thread treats it like every bd is like this
5. There are often multiple caps adding and borrowing at the same time, and assistant captains simply adding themselves without regard for what the person who got the game intended in terms of lineup balance or borrows
6. The facts show that 6*s and 7*s were given ample playtime over the last 12 months, moreso than 9*s and 10*s

The reality is that veterans in this game have made a significant amount of efforts to help new basers. There is simply no solution to playing against players with thousands of games played over decades short of bots like League of Legends. The entire game, from TWDT-B star caps to borrows to guides to vets taking players under their wing, is skewed towards low-star players and it's still not enough. People who aren't really good at something simply aren't likely to continue doing it, especially against stronger players. And we've already pushed elite players to their limit, we had way too many 10*s and 9*s benching last year in TWDT-B. Those are the players who stick around at a much, much higher rate.

[Grasps]

Omega Red I don't think it's just that the bridge squads are dead. I think there is a subset of people who have grown so elitist that they are literally forcing players out of their community. A community that was already dying.

This.

I won't name names but a lot of top players shame others for having bad games, flat out refuse to play with players they don't deem 'elite' or refuse to borrow non 'elite' players. Some of them hold prestigious titles whether it's staff or otherwise stacking with other elite tier players and putting everyone else not in the small circle of egotistical highschool wannabe's out of luck. The amount of nepotism is daunting with such a small community such as ours yet it's here and we look the other way.

They don't care if people quit. In fact, a few weeks back one said elite squad sat and laughed at players quitting a TWDD match because they refused borrows to play 4v4 instead wanting to keep it 3v3. Basically they only had 3 squad mates on that were "elite" but didn't see anyone else worthy of pairing up with them thus didn't borrow anyone for 4's. It was a packed arena and when they were done, everyone left but this elite squad. They all laughed with each other and genuinely felt good about killing off the activity for TWDD that night and went off to another zone. Was pretty sick and I witnessed the entire thing unable to do anything about it.

Makes me sad how lame this game can get. TWL brings out the ugliest aspect of the community, though TWDT also has moments. All over a lil bitty pixel medal and bragging rights in one of Ogron's spreadsheets. About it. Always reminds me how afraid some of these elites are when you see them scramble to stack up the most elite rosters possible for easy shoe in wins that so long as you just show up you'll win. Like literally, a guy like RTAllen could win as a 5th with some of these stacked lines and probably do good because he has zero pressure on him and can take time to aim shots.

Why I respect vets like Skepsis or Iron Survivor that took a squad of nobodies and took them to TWL. Same can be said for Iron's Force and how that group did the same. What's better, is these dudes they beat up still won at the end of the day and ran most them off or they gave up and joined forces with them. There is next to no competition in 2021 for them and that's totally ok in their book. They just stack it up, crapping all over the casuals/scrubs. Reality is the real battle for glory and spreadsheets is to be only the top 3 teams and the rest won't have a chance.

Not much we can do. We can't force people to not be big fat pussies or stack. Or not be total douche bags to those they deem unworthy by not playing with them or refusing them borrows.

[Omega Red]

I’ve joined plenty of weaker squads to try and help with the spread of talent the past few seasons just like I did with Spastic last TWL, Fierce, etc. and just like plenty of other players who have done it seasons before in the past. But according to faggot basing legend Lockdown, and TWL spider legend Mouse, my skills in basing aren’t to par since Spastic placed 5th last TWL and I play for myself in competitive life altering try Harding TWBD matches so my opinion is probably irrelevant.

Unfortunately there’s still cores that stack and stay together because their pride is worth more than anything else.

you also have emotional unstable people who play this game and people don’t want to be apart of the toxicity so they stay with their people.
Myself and others aren’t gonna log in on Sundays to deal with unstable idiots complain all day on how they’re right and how they don’t want to squad with you and blah blah blah blah.

it is what it is at this point.

That's a good point, there is a difference in how some players value their experience. Some value winning at all costs, and some value just having fun. There is no clear black and white cut between which player is which as in different times some players have moved in between these squads.

There is no solution to this really since you cannot demand equity in TWBD, the closest you get to that is TWDT since you are forced to play into a star constraint. Newer players have to either get good or join a squad that BDs regularly. Right now it is TWL time and everyone has their nerd hats on for medals. This is the time probably where this issue is most pronounced.

[Efhat]

I’ve joined plenty of weaker squads to try and help with the spread of talent the past few seasons just like I did with Spastic last TWL, Fierce, etc. and just like plenty of other players who have done it seasons before in the past. But according to faggot basing legend Lockdown, and TWL spider legend Mouse, my skills in basing aren’t to par since Spastic placed 5th last TWL and I play for myself in competitive life altering try Harding TWBD matches so my opinion is probably irrelevant.

Unfortunately there’s still cores that stack and stay together because their pride is worth more than anything else.

you also have emotional unstable people who play this game and people don’t want to be apart of the toxicity so they stay with their people.
Myself and others aren’t gonna log in on Sundays to deal with unstable idiots complain all day on how they’re right and how they don’t want to squad with you and blah blah blah blah.

it is what it is at this point.

[LF]

I had a big post ready to be typed out but changed my mind. I want to stick with my personal preference of basing on a WB squad (Ala Fierce, Sweet, etc) in an attempt to create an underdog with a chance. Its too easy to stack and win, more fun to actually work for it.

For what it's worth, I'm at the very least serviceable in all the basing ships and I don't get borrowed hardly at all either. I blame TJ Hazuki

[Vehicle]

Omega Red I don't think it's just that the bridge squads are dead. I think there is a subset of people who have grown so elitist that they are literally forcing players out of their community. A community that was already dying.

[Omega Red]

It will always be a problem and is now more apparent than ever considering the bridge squads are dead like Renzi said.

Some nerds are so concerned with winning meaningless TWBD games they will stack to oblivion. It's always the same problem, casuals VS the hardcore nerds. The hardcore nerds hate losing and therefore will congregate to prevent losing and sometimes even going as far as refusing to borrow newer or shit players in the arena.

Nobody likes to lose though, and with all the top players congregating on 2-3 squads, the bridge squads get crushed continually until they break.

[Vehicle]

who did that vehicil?

I don't think it's constructive to call out specific people but the people you are thinking of are the people I am talking about.

Honestly viop11 I give you a lot of credit (I've told you as much in private). You're the only one in this era who successfully brought up some new players with Rapid while still having a competitive team. I know from my time on Rapid, though, that your squad once experienced this same bullshit.

This isn't new, basing has always been the most insular community in my opinion, but it's getting incredibly bad. Your community (which I'm not a part of anymore since I can't even get borrowed in bd these days [which is fine, I'm bad, I get it]) is down to under 50 players and you guys just continue to alienate players.

[viop11]

who did that vehicil?

[renzi]

I agree. It would take buy-in from the community to really make work. Instead of having squads that only field high-level lines we would have squads that are interested in building the community who add balanced lines. But the community as it stands now is ~30 players who would prefer it if no one else ever played. Case in point: S@@R joined Juice last night because his own squad wouldn't play him and instead borrowed a 9/10*.

No one is obligated to pick me or anyone else but when there are 40+ people in an arena, several people asking to play, and the cap !zones and lets the timer run until a 10* shows up, it's detrimental to the playerbase. And this happens pretty much every night.

I see this in dd too and agree, it’s kind of dumb. Twbd will have 40-50 people or twdd will have 20-30 people, most obviously not afk, but caps do !needborrow anyway lol....

[Vehicle]

I tried with Suspiria around when I first came back, but it got so exhausting trying to keep getting new players, while the new players I already had would get frustrated about always getting owned and eventually stopped playing. On top of that, if you have any good players on the squad with them, they eventually start complaining about playing with the bad players. We just don’t have a decent sized group of lower tier squads/players anymore to help with this (brainwave, lego, penetrate sort of, etc).

I agree. It would take buy-in from the community to really make work. Instead of having squads that only field high-level lines we would have squads that are interested in building the community who add balanced lines. But the community as it stands now is ~30 players who would prefer it if no one else ever played. Case in point: S@@R joined Juice last night because his own squad wouldn't play him and instead borrowed a 9/10*.

No one is obligated to pick me or anyone else but when there are 40+ people in an arena, several people asking to play, and the cap !zones and lets the timer run until a 10* shows up, it's detrimental to the playerbase. And this happens pretty much every night.

[renzi]

The basing community has truly become a caricature of it's former self.

"Wah wah basing is dying" "Wah wah no I won't leave my stacked squad to help bring up new players" "Wah wah I won't play with or against anyone with less than 5,000 usage."

Get each other's cocks out of your mouths you elitist cunts.

Yesterday's behavior especially was an embarrassment.

I tried with Suspiria around when I first came back, but it got so exhausting trying to keep getting new players, while the new players I already had would get frustrated about always getting owned and eventually stopped playing. On top of that, if you have any good players on the squad with them, they eventually start complaining about playing with the bad players. We just don’t have a decent sized group of lower tier squads/players anymore to help with this (brainwave, lego, penetrate sort of, etc).

[Vehicle]

The basing community has truly become a caricature of it's former self.

"Wah wah basing is dying" "Wah wah no I won't leave my stacked squad to help bring up new players" "Wah wah I won't play with or against anyone with less than 5,000 usage."

Get each other's cocks out of your mouths you elitist cunts.

Yesterday's behavior especially was an embarrassment.