Whose going to hit it big this season!?

[Awesome]

good points epi

[Cig Smoke]

Epi u made some good points yes, but u forget taht ur "vets" were also very inactive at times, unlike the "little nerdy kids" on shriek. U forget activity can play a big role.

Esc: maybe i should of chose my words better yes, but my belief is they were better then synd, thats not the real arguement that i wanted to make tho. I wanted to make the point of dice/venom. Venom is weaker then synd (as u agreed bc of the fbz/spam/df and such) and dice is basicaly shriek with a new captain. Thats what i was trying to point out.

[Miku19]

Playing all the time might not be all good. I myself find that having a few days' break and coming back improves my game, since I'm not as "used" to the ship, making me less sloppy. Being able to focus when it actually matters is way more important than random activity.

[Blood]

i disagree completely, epi. i played shriek numerous times last season and I can pretty much say they would've steamrolled over Syndicate, -Final- and Pallies had they not been kicked out. I know Pallies at least wouldn't have stood a chance against them. It seems they practiced javs a lot and developed a simply crushing aggressive style. I could not ever counter it, even when playing against them with Pallies' top line. The only way they might've lost would've been if they had gotten playoff gitters. If they had been able to keep that same style up in the playoffs they would've won.

I'm rare to compliment others but I really have to give it to Shriek here.

[Epinephrine]

Epi u made some good points yes, but u forget taht ur "vets" were also very inactive at times, unlike the "little nerdy kids" on shriek. U forget activity can play a big role.

And you forget Shriek disbanded in TWL season 6 because they were too inactive

And that's the problem. It's easy to be the best at any particular time because you're active and other people might not be. But the true test of any squad is to make it through the long-haul and succeed to the end. Without that, being the best in sometime in the middle that didn't matter at all doesn't count.

Look at my Toronto Maple Leafs.. they were the best team in the NHL for 1/2 of the season last season, but yet again as always... they crumpled in the playoffs.

And Blood, I don't deny Shriek was a good team, much like Rampage was a good TWLD team that also kicked everyone's ass (and beat Elusive most of the time in TWDD too) but hey... we still won. I'm positive we would have beat Shriek when it mattered.

-Epi

[a2m+]

like phren said its all opinion epi and i think we woulda kicked your ass :/

[Escalate]

true they did prac alot, by far the most active jav squad. and yeah cig i think you just worded it badly, its all good.

[Underground]

I think we just will never know ...
Sometimes its good when that happens ..

[Rule]

Everyone knows that Elusive/Syndicate was the greatest group of jav players in the history of Trench Wars. Two championships, one 2nd place finish in 3 seasons of TWLJ.

Is there anything else that needs to be said?

Shriek javs never played a single playoff match in the last two seasons (and disbanded DURING the playoffs in season 5). Looking at Shriek's records in TWJD and in regular season TWLJ mean absolutely nothing.

You might say as proof that Shriek beating Elusive in TWLJ6 was proof that they are better, but I fully believe that Elusive would have won if they ever met when it mattered.

Elusive lost to Rampage in TWLD6 and still beat them in playoffs when it mattered. Syndicate lost to -Final- in TWLD7 and still beat them in playoffs when it mattered. Similarily, Elusive lost to Siege in the first knockout of TWLJ5 playoffs, but beat them in the finals to win. Syndicate lost to Pallies in TWLJ7 in regular season (their ONLY loss) and beat them 2-0 in the finals to win.

Shriek played javs exactly like how they played warbirds. They played aggressive. Almost too aggressive. This is fine when you're playing games that don't matter, and an especially good strategy when you're playing squads which are clearly worse than you. After a good onslaught they will crumble. The problem with an overly aggressive strategy is that once you start playing people who actually know how to dodge (and in a playoff situation they will actually try their hardest to dodge), then you can easily get trapped in a 'defensive' team which will surround you and kill you. Eventually as with Shriek in warbirds, someone will lose it, start suiciding and that's it for the game. Having the types of players that Shriek had as their starting lineup (immature kids who could lose it at any time) this is especially bad against the seasoned veterans and steady players of Elusive/Syndicate.

Then there's the clutch factor. Looking at the ability of Elusive/Syndicate to come back when it mattered, to have the next level of fully clutch play necessary to win championships in TWLD and TWLJ you can see how we would have taken our game to the next level if we had to play Shriek. They had no chance. Actually if we had to play Shriek instead of Diso in TWLJ6 we probably would have won because we wouldn't have severely underestimated our opposition's ability.

-Epi

Agreed

Shriek were a good Jav squad. But we were better. Whether it be Elusive or Syndicate. People can talk hypothetical all day, but there is no real argument. Shriek got nice season records, but floundered year after year during and before the playoffs.

Elusive TWLJ Season 5- Record 6-4. End Result- Champion
Elusive TWLJ Season 6- Record 9-1 End Result- Runner Up
Syndicate TWLJ Season 7- Record 9-1 End Result- Champion

Season records mean very little come playoff time. Playoffs are the test of how a squad stands. It's all about how you play and stick together during that clutch time, when every game means elimination.

Rule

[a2m+]

yea but you dont know how any of us would of reacted come playoff time. sure some of us might have choked or whatever but you never know, we might have had a few clutch players of our own. so yea you can have your opinion and say that your squad was better but my opinion will probably never change that mine was

[Bob (SRB)]

If you think about it, you can't compare shriek to elusive/synd. Because they never even got to the point where they were both in the playoffs and they had to face eachother. None of us knows or could possibly tell what the outcome would be because it never happened. Shriek may or may not have been better javs, but elusive was certainly a better "squad." Because when it comes down to it, elusive/syndicate has 2 twlj titles and shriek has none... that's all that needs to be said.

[Hercules]

If you think about it, you can't compare shriek to elusive/synd. Because they never even got to the point where they were both in the playoffs and they had to face eachother. None of us knows or could possibly tell what the outcome would be because it never happened. Shriek may or may not have been better javs, but elusive was certainly a better "squad." Because when it comes down to it, elusive/syndicate has 2 twlj titles and shriek has none... that's all that needs to be said.

tru, but silly comment. Im pretty sure we all know how many titles elu has, we can just check the history book if were new to Trench Wars

[Cig Smoke]

I know what my opinion was too, but like i said above the point i was making had nothing to do with shriek/synd really it was pointing out the ups/downs of dice/venom compared to those 2 squads. We'll never know the real better squad bc they arent alive nemore.

[Rule]

I know what my opinion was too, but like i said above the point i was making had nothing to do with shriek/synd really it was pointing out the ups/downs of dice/venom compared to those 2 squads. We'll never know the real better squad bc they arent alive nemore.

Everyone has the right to their opinions, here is mine:

I remember when Shriek was dissolving and its leaders wanted to join Elusive- telling us which players they wanted to bring etc. We were not interested. Keep a squad together, go all the way, win multiple championships then you can talk about who is better. Then you have a credible opinion based on facts not just what you think.

- Rule

[PaulOakenfold]

Hercules it appears you play Warcraft III, join Melufa and My DotA Clan Taos. You can reach me on US East by /f add Dammit good day!