Tiebreaker

[Violence]

if two squads are tied at end of season the tiebreaker should be:

Head to Head first
+/- Second

the reason for this is because teams have different schedules so the +/- is inaccurate. Also teams can drop out and one team could get a 50-0 win which greatly effects the +/-. The Only real way to see which team deserves the higher rank is how the teams did versus each other. Last year rapid got screwed over by this as Rapid, Pirates, and GV were all 6-4 in twlj, but GV and Pirates had better +/- even though rapid beat them both. One main reason the two squads had better +/- was because rapid had harder cross conference games then the other 2 squads.

Chance to head to head!

[Fit of Rage]

For once, I agree with you. :up:

[Cig Smoke]

Should of always been this way.

[apt]

if squads are tied it should just be whatever squad lost against the other squad during the season is gone. head to head delays playoffs. everyother league does it like this and it works fine, sure the losing squad bitches and say it isn't fair, but he you shouldn't of lost the first time. sometimes theres been seasons in leagues ive played in, hz, pro, pro/powerball, swzl where the losing squad bitches so much they change the rules for the following season. and always the squad that lost during the reg season loses the head to head, even if the losing squad is extremely better, somehow they end up losing. one time in iml these squads played once in pre season, reg season, same team lost both times, they had a head to head and they lost that too. so fuck the head to head. if you suck you shouldnt play online games anyways
afk

[foobarz]

Edit: Post removed, I thought he was talking about twd

[Desperate]

I agree with Vio

[Randedl]

Last year rapid got screwed over by this as Rapid, Pirates, and GV were all 6-4 in twlj, but GV and Pirates had better +/- even though rapid beat them both. One main reason the two squads had better +/- was because rapid had harder cross conference games then the other 2 squads.

Chance to head to head!

without bias (because gv is obviously gone), we had a better jav lineup than your top 5. our match against each other was unfortunate timing for my squad. that's alright though, just means we had to overcome an extra loss.

in a system where you only play squads once, and people have no binding obligation to attend the games, head to head is far too prone to bad luck. +/- ensures the most consistant squad over the entire season wins a tiebreaker. if squads played their conference rivals twice, and each had the same opposition over the entire season, things might be different. . . however, based on last season, +/- was a good way to go.

ps. it's quite redundant to move the second tiebreaker to +/- when head to head is your first option and squads only play each other once.

[cundor]

I agree with Vio

P.S.: <3 Desperate

[Sleepy Weasel]

if squads are tied it should just be whatever squad lost against the other squad during the season is gone. head to head delays playoffs.

That is what head to head is, your post doesn't make sense.

is it possible for squads to be tied? I figured the scores are stored as a floating point number and rounded to an integer only for the scoreboard purposes, and this would make a tie exceedingly unlikely.

Similarly this guy makes no sense. We're talking about squads that have the same win loss record come playoffs, I don't know what you're talking about.

without bias (because gv is obviously gone), we had a better jav lineup than your top 5. our match against each other was unfortunate timing for my squad. that's alright though, just means we had to overcome an extra loss.

in a system where you only play squads once, and people have no binding obligation to attend the games, head to head is far too prone to bad luck. +/- ensures the most consistant squad over the entire season wins a tiebreaker. if squads played their conference rivals twice, and each had the same opposition over the entire season, things might be different. . . however, based on last season, +/- was a good way to go.

ps. it's quite redundant to move the second tiebreaker to +/- when head to head is your first option and squads only play each other once.

I agree with rand that head to head is more prone to bad luck. What if you just had bad attendance that one week, which can happen in a league where the players aren't paid to show up, your +/- should be a better indication of your squads strength throughout the season. HOWEVER, I still think we should use head to head because of the fact that there is no real good way to deal with how forfeits and squads dropping out effect +/-. Now if by some miracle the exact same squads that start TWL are the squads that finish them +/- would be the best way to go in my opinion.

[Desperate]

P.S.: <3 Desperate

hi cundor long time no see

[Royst]

Hmm, i know head to head and +/- has it's flaws, so maybe we should try something different?

Here's my idea (whether or not you've already thought of this, or you choose not to listen to me, its okay)

Well, considering we had a replay week last season, could it be possible to have a week 11 or 12 to have tiebreaker matches? It would be a few matches where the tied teams would all face each other, in a span of an hour or two, just the same length you'd play for the finals. I know its just dragging the season even longer, but it's much more efficient to decide who makes the playoffs without any arguments. I don't know if it'll work, but perhaps it could be used? and feel free to write any such flaws (even though you will anyways :P)

[Violence]

Apt ur an idiot because what u just said was what exactly what a head to head tie breaker means. You look at how the squads did vs each other in regular season to see who gets the higher rank.

And rand and whoever else disagreed. Isnt twl supposed to be the best league in tw and the most competitive? Head to Head insures that everyone will take every game with importance because they know any loss could bite them in the ass. You say u guys had a better Starting 5 jav lineup then us, this could be true, but you guys lost cuz u only had 5 people that can actually jav. Depth is an important part of a team so i dont think the excuse of "we didnt show our best players" is a reason why we shouldnt go with head to head over +/-. The only weakness in head to head is that people dont show up every week. With +/- ther are bigger weaknesses such as, Difference in schedules, Teams falling apart and getting free wins or being replaced with weaker squads that all fuck up the +/-.

[Send]

I don't agree with vio

[PjOtTeR]

Why not watch what squads you won and lost in your conference....
This is rank...:
.................................................. .....................Win...............Lose
squad 1........9-1........squad 9........8-2..................+8.................-1
squad 2........8-2........squad 10.......8-2.................+7.................-2
squad 3........6-4........squad 11.......7-3.................+6.................-3
squad 4........6-4........squad 12.......6-4.................+5.................-4
squad 5........6-4........squad 13.......5-5.................+4.................-5
squad 6........4-6........squad 14.......3-7.................+3.................-6
squad 7........2-8........squad 15.......2-8.................+2.................-7
squad 8........0-10.......squad 16......0-10................+1.................-8

Sorry for the dots... but i couldn't use Spaces.

when we look at the tieërs: squad 3,4,5 and squad 9,10
when you look at squad 3: he won vs squad 1,5,7,8,13,15 and lost vs: 2,4,6,10
Giving him 8 + 6(cus squad 5 is tied for 3th place) +2 + 1 + 4 + 2 - 2 - 3(squad4 is tied for 3th place) -6 -1 (squad 10 is tied for 1st place) = 11

when you look at squad 4: he won vs squad 3,5,6,7,8,15 and lost vs: 1,2,11,12
Giving him 6(cus squad 3 is tied for 3th place) + 6(cus squad 5 is tied for 3th place) +3 + 2 + 1 + 2 - 1 - 2 -3 -4 = 10

when you look at squad 5: he won vs squad 2,6,7,8,10,11 and lost vs: 1,3,4,16
Giving him 7 + 3 +2 + 1 + 8(cus squad 10 is tied for 1st place) + 6 - 1 - 3(squad3 is tied for 3th place) -3(cus squad4 is tied for 1st place) -8 = 12

This way squad5 will be 3th in left conf, squad 3 will be 2nd and squad 4 will be 5th ( you understand this if you look at the points.)

This way, it isn't about +-, nor about head to head... cus squad 4 won both squad 3 and 5.... but they only won them or worse squads.... and didn't win one of the top 2 squads.
While squad 3 and 5 showed they can win top squads, which will bring better games. Also losing to the lower teams gives you disadvantage, while losing to the good teams doesn't.
I could've chosen to look only at the squads you beat. But this way some squad may be more advantaged over the other cus the one squad gets to play the better teams from the other conference. So my way that flaw is excluded. Also losing to a really low squad should be penalized...

This could be shitty if some squad dissolves and gets replaced by a better squad, so one team played them the first time while they were good (as in when shriek dissolves) and the other squad gets to play a weak replacement.
This way the first team loses lots of points... while other gets an easy win.

So i think it even would be a good idea, that if someone drops out, don't replace the squad, just give everyone a win by default to the squad dropping out.
This are just my 2 cents

Pirates for twlb! B) artytime :headbang:

[Awesome]

in a system where you only play squads once, and people have no binding obligation to attend the games, head to head is far too prone to bad luck. +/- ensures the most consistant squad over the entire season wins a tiebreaker. if squads played their conference rivals twice, and each had the same opposition over the entire season, things might be different. . . however, based on last season, +/- was a good way to go.

I agree with rand that head to head is more prone to bad luck. What if you just had bad attendance that one week, which can happen in a league where the players aren't paid to show up, your +/- should be a better indication of your squads strength throughout the season. HOWEVER, I still think we should use head to head because of the fact that there is no real good way to deal with how forfeits and squads dropping out effect +/-. Now if by some miracle the exact same squads that start TWL are the squads that finish them +/- would be the best way to go in my opinion.

agreed