call it bitter if you will, but..

[Cross]

See you again next season! Erm.. I take that back! I hate those squads that can't show enough guys in TWL-D/J/B. Lousy one league squad.. why blame staff if -2ez- n00b!?

[Delectable]

lololo people sure do get pretty animated over a 2d space game. I dont even know what twl stands for. I usually end up asking someone like colonel when i need to know any statistical probability relating to twl.

[Tyson]

Tys, nobody needs your permission to talk about your squad, you can't trademark subspace squads, I've tried. Players are always representing their squad at some level, no matter what the circumstances are.

QS might not deserve a playoff spot for the inconsistent game they played, losing to non-contenders and beating playoff squads but as Izor pointed out, United Force (Note to self: ask Tys' permission next time) qualified from the other division with a worse record and not beating any playoff squads.

- Disqualifier

Any normal squad leader would seize to trash squads they have lost to twice in the same TWL season. And Disqualifier, dont tell me who represents my squad and who does not. Nobody here can speak in the name of United Force. Did you not read that in my first post on this thread?

As for your comment on United Force's record, keep it to yourself or email it to twl staff. Maybe they take United Force out and put Quicksand in. I think they deserve a playoff spot since they are the ONLY squad this season that have been screwed over by scheduling.

[Izor]

lol k, theres a difference between getting a legit time slot that isnt full and what happened to us this season. Some of you people might agree with 6 games in a time slot for some reason and in nethila doing that to us week 6, but its still against the rules. All of those time slots were either filled or sk8 had a game during them when I made my final decision that thursday afternoon.

Week 9 though was completely different. Ancs had games at 14:00 and 15:00. Staff had already known that we have difficulty making early games from week 6, and instead of giving that game a 16:00 time slot, they chose 13:00.

Week 12 was going to be the same thing if Disq didnt schedule with us. Reading in between the lines when I offered 3-5 pm sat/sun to pl he was still trying to get it earlier and said he would pick something to his liking if they wouldnt agree.

I dont care about playoffs anymore so the discussions about it are pointless. What I do care about is removing biased/lazy ops so that people can actually play next season. That's all.

[Sufficient]

lol k, theres a difference between getting a legit time slot that isnt full and what happened to us this season. Some of you people might agree with 6 games in a time slot for some reason and in nethila doing that to us week 6, but its still against the rules. All of those time slots were either filled or sk8 had a game during them when I made my final decision that thursday afternoon.

Week 9 though was completely different. Ancs had games at 14:00 and 15:00. Staff had already known that we have difficulty making early games from week 6, and instead of giving that game a 16:00 time slot, they chose 13:00.

Week 12 was going to be the same thing if Disq didnt schedule with us. Reading in between the lines when I offered 3-5 pm sat/sun to pl he was still trying to get it earlier and said he would pick something to his liking if they wouldnt agree.

I dont care about playoffs anymore so the discussions about it are pointless. What I do care about is removing biased/lazy ops so that people can actually play next season. That's all.

Depth is part of the game. Maybe staff should arrange the games in random time slots and not deal with any BS about scheduling. Then the teams with real depth can shine instead of those who rely on 5 guys to come to every single match.

I think staff may have made things inconvenient for you ... but I would've recruited more players to QS ... be proactive instead of relying on staff to give you a favorable decision.

[genocidal]

I agree with you, Suff. Staff should just designate times and depth would become more important to squads; plus there would be less whining and this thread wouldn't exist.

[Miku19]

Well you have to accept the fact that decisionmaking is always going to be biased, that's what humans are. What you don't have to accept is staff not trying to be unbiased. What I see in Izor's quote is a pretty childish Pure_Luck - it would have been easier for him to just message all the captains with the info about scheduling and then finally ask for the time they agreed upon. I guess he just doesn't have enough stuff to do otherwise, without butting in.

For all those who think Quicksand didn't deserve a playoff spot:
Well, I guess they didn't since they're not in playoffs. Depth is an important thing in TWL, this is what happens without it. Squad!! was just more consistantly shitty.

I personally am content with the fact that Quicksand didn't get into the playoffs, even if justice didn't really get served on a silver platter. They would've been hard to beat. They would certainly have put Syndicate or Dice to a bigger test than Squad!! will. It's just a shame it turned out to be -F- vs Quicksand for playoffs instead of a 3-way. Bad luck for Quicksand that -F- sucked during regular season too. :P

PS: Pure_Luck was much more fun during the Dekai vs Spastic days, when he didn't have a mass of staff as his shield and a possible ban as his sword. Then he had to rely on his wit to reply. That was cool.

[Ivan]

Thanks for playing.

[kthx]

It seems to me the only legit points people are saying about what happened during week six is "get more depth, recruit more players". But that is one of the real problems with TWL, most squads have too much depth, over-recruiting anyone who has been playing for like 8 years and making the leagues unfair. Look at the power squads, they have like 10 benching starting-material warbirds on their squad that could have been another squad. Everyone also says "well you are just a one league squad" Well everyone whines about three-league squads having to deal with 3 games every weekend, so they should get whatever times they want, isn't that the same thing as us. We decided not to have a 500 person roster full of the best players in the game because we liked the people we had, and didn't want to recruit just for the hell of it, the same that other squads decided to play in three leagues. I mean imagine having 16 competitive squads instead of.. 3-4 dissolved squads, 3-4 gantz's, etc. So basically shouldn't the TWL ops give us just as much lee-way as a three league squad, because they are both choices the captains make. Scheduling times you know a squad can't make, and that break two TWL rules doesn't make for a good TWL op.

[Epinephrine]

Too bad you guys didn't win all those easy games in the beginning of the season which would have guaranteed you a spot in the playoffs.

Everyone gets screwed from time to time. If it wasn't you guys complaining it would be sk8 complaining about how week 6 screwed them or something like that. In the end running a league is a hard thing to do and not everyone is going to be happy. It's too bad it's you getting screwed this time. Maybe in the future you can do something proactive and help the league be run better instead of just quitting if you really do care about the welfare of the league.

[kthx]

Yeah you are right about that first part Epine, we should have won those games honestly, but they played well, and we didn't, stuff happens. As for the other part, we did wait until we were completely out of TWL before dissolving, which is alot more than we can say for quite a few other squads. As for helping the league, I want to volunteer to be a TWL op next season, there are few things I would add. I think this season sorely lacked a personal touch that I feel I can bring, unbiased to this league.

TWL is about the respect you get from players for being good, and it is also an event that alot of people want to come see. Therefore I think that no more than 60% of the games should be hosted on sunday, and the rest should be hosted on saturday. This will alleviate the problem with too many hosted games in one time slot, and also the problem of not enough hosts during busy RL events. I think this would make a more enjoyable TWL season as more people could see more games they want to see, and TWL rules would be followed.

There aren't enough TWL ops actually getting involved with the squads and players, I think alot of the problems this season could have been fixed with a few moments of someones time. Therefore instead of automatically scheduling a game where I see fit, if neither squad could come to an agreement, I would have a round-robin discussion with captains from both squads while in game, I think this would make the twl site scheduling dillemma where sometimes game times aren't known until late in the week and squads don't have time to appeal.

I think appeals got out of hand this season, I would set it up so that Appeals were taken care of within three days of the incident, and not only that I would talk to both of the squads involved about the decision, I would give a reason why or why not, that would strictly follow TWL rules, and I would also leave a post on the forums as to why the decision was made, and that there was an appeal on said game in the first place.

Forfeits were another problem I saw with this TWL, the +50 -50 scores were a tad too much in leagues where tied squads out of 10 games might move ahead or lose because of them. I believe it used to be 20-50 or 30-50 automatically if a forfeit happened. That is the way they should have stayed chances are.

I mean obviously these ideas of mine are just the tip of the iceburg so to speak, but as you could see, they could dramatically improve a TWL season.

[Izor]

Maybe in the future you can do something proactive and help the league be run better instead of just quitting if you really do care about the welfare of the league.

the only way to get the point across here that I can see is to stop playing. As we've seen, the way things get dealt with is by ignoring it. If we continue to play, PL/neth will have no reason to discontinue abusing us since no one really seems to care enough about whats happened here to do anything about it. I mean, even if the majority of people on here can agree that that is the case, no one is going to change it for the future, which is now what I am directing my focus on. The people who are ultimately going to be affected of course, as you pointed out, are the other leaguers when next season is less competitive than this one. What we will not subject ourselves to, however, is having to worry during the week if some squad is going to refuse to schedule with us, and we'll get some time that PL thinks we wont show anywhere near our best line to.

And sk8 would not have had anything to complain about for the record, if that game was scheduled differently. Just read my post and judge what happened to us all season. After what happened in week 9 especially I think its pretty obvious. You dont just give an american vs euro squad the euro time unless you really dont want the american squad to win. Theres no excuse for that.

BTW, why would we care about the welfare of the league now, after we have people trying to put games in times that they know we cant show up to?

EDIT: Ok epi, http://twl.trenchwars.org/?module=ne...tchID=88833064 look at my scheduling note on thursday afternoon. I pretty much laid down what was happening there. Now combine what happened there with the rest of our season, and try telling me logically how we were not abused. Honorable mention here is that Disqualifier posted twice that his squad was given illegal times based on the rules, and each time it was fixed. We got pretty much either ignored, or told to fuck off. Your choice of wording should not be scheduling screwed, but rather operator screwed. To say we got screwed by scheduling implies that it was done fairly, but we got the shortest straw. I'm sure you can see that

[Singer]

wow just shut up already

next time try to have more than like 6 league material players

how to do that? start by being nice to the people around you and maybe youre gonna attract some vets eventually

[kthx]

Singer - We are just discussing what happened, you are the one that read through three pages of it, whining on every page about how we need to shutup, without offering anything valid or useful to the argument. If you don't want to hear what we say, than stop reading.

[death row]

Yeah you are right about that first part Epine, we should have won those games honestly, but they played well, and we didn't, stuff happens. As for the other part, we did wait until we were completely out of TWL before dissolving, which is alot more than we can say for quite a few other squads. As for helping the league, I want to volunteer to be a TWL op next season, there are few things I would add. I think this season sorely lacked a personal touch that I feel I can bring, unbiased to this league.

TWL is about the respect you get from players for being good, and it is also an event that alot of people want to come see. Therefore I think that no more than 60% of the games should be hosted on sunday, and the rest should be hosted on saturday. This will alleviate the problem with too many hosted games in one time slot, and also the problem of not enough hosts during busy RL events. I think this would make a more enjoyable TWL season as more people could see more games they want to see, and TWL rules would be followed.

There aren't enough TWL ops actually getting involved with the squads and players, I think alot of the problems this season could have been fixed with a few moments of someones time. Therefore instead of automatically scheduling a game where I see fit, if neither squad could come to an agreement, I would have a round-robin discussion with captains from both squads while in game, I think this would make the twl site scheduling dillemma where sometimes game times aren't known until late in the week and squads don't have time to appeal.

I think appeals got out of hand this season, I would set it up so that Appeals were taken care of within three days of the incident, and not only that I would talk to both of the squads involved about the decision, I would give a reason why or why not, that would strictly follow TWL rules, and I would also leave a post on the forums as to why the decision was made, and that there was an appeal on said game in the first place.

Forfeits were another problem I saw with this TWL, the +50 -50 scores were a tad too much in leagues where tied squads out of 10 games might move ahead or lose because of them. I believe it used to be 20-50 or 30-50 automatically if a forfeit happened. That is the way they should have stayed chances are.

I mean obviously these ideas of mine are just the tip of the iceburg so to speak, but as you could see, they could dramatically improve a TWL season.

Wark, I'm glad you're willing to help. It's nice to see people trying to help witht he league stuff. I got respect for those people because they put a lot of time and effort into this and they aren't being paid. Yeah, they make mistakes. But again, you got to take the good with the bad. But if you're willing to help, all the better.

The only part I don't agree with his having more games on Saturday. To me, league play has traditionally been all about Sundays. Saturdays are bad for a lot of people, because they are either working or just busy doing stuff that day. Sunday is usually considered a kickback day and thats why its the best day to play games. Maybe more hosts will help, who knows. But I honestly want to see things remain the same, almost all games on Sunday and rarely have some on Saturday. The way its always been.