TAPS - Trench Wars Association of Players and Staff

[Troll King]

If the whole point of this thing is to involve the community more and allow them to have more participation in how things are run, then how can you continue to support this idea when the reaction to it so far has been fairly negative? If this thread is any indication, then the first thing that TAPS would likely do is dissolve itself.

[Zingy]

...how can you continue to support this idea when the reaction to it so far has been fairly negative? If this thread is any indication, then the first thing that TAPS would likely do is dissolve itself.

Several staff members telling me that this is an inefficient system is not an indication of the general public's opinion of it.

TAPS is a draft idea, and we're just discussing it. I am not insisting that it be implemented, I am just promoting discussion about it. That's kind of the point of a forum - to talk and exchange ideas. If the idea doesn't pan out, that's fine.

[Epinephrine]

Four things:

1) What's this recent TWL fiasco?

2) Remember Qan's TW submissions thing? No one ever used that, we spent forever designing it too.

3) You need staff support for this to have any power. It seems like the staff doesn't support this from replies in this thread.

4) This is an idea that I've thought about extensively in the past. In fact I wanted to implement something like this while I was running TWL a long time ago with captain involvement (in which case it actually would be staff-supported as this probably won't be). In the end after much thinking, I realized that it just wouldn't work.

It's a fine idea theoretically, but in the end there's only so many people that actually care about this game all the time. Even of those that care, they cannot be online enough to make any sort of regular meeting thanks to real life commitment and time zones. Anyone who's ever had to get players to go to a TWL game on a weekend, find TWL hosts, or do anything organized thing in this game would realize this.

A democratic system without any actual meetings, is sort of pointless as nothing could be properly discussed. Even if you opened up a forum to discuss things within a certain time period (i.e. fix this issue before the next TWL round), only a very small fraction would ever bother to post, and of those even less would be constructive much less factual.

What you would actually get is a council of people where only very, very few would actually care at any given time. They would likely care more if they or their squad were directly affected, otherwise not care at all. Generally no one would care if they aren't directly involved unless they were doing it to make some point, aside from maybe the 1 or 2 keeners.

In this way, you cannot have an effective democracy as you won't achieve quorum to ever properly discuss any matter, nor could you ever properly vote on any matter because I doubt 50% of people would ever vote on something in any informed matter.

It's a fine dream, but honestly it will not work. This game is simply too small to have enough people who care who don't already have positions of power for this to work. It is also unimportant enough so that people won't miss real life commitments or especially schedule time in their lives to care about things. And of course there are so many immature people in this game who really don't take it seriously or are even maliciously trying to screw things up for their own gain that it would undermine the legitimacy of the system very quickly.

[Cops]

What TWL fiasco?

Build, a squad not able to compete or play real basing squads wasn't allowed in TWLB, well no shit sherlock if you can't fucking play real basing squads then how the fuck do you expect to compete in a highly completive league. A squad wasn't allowed to sneak their way into the league and suck every single game.

A Jav squad got bumped because they weren't active or played more than 14 games, yet they deserve to be in a league that is active? What has that squad shown the league other than the ability to not play the fucking game.

There's no fiasco, staff does a decent job and better people than you have tried to do something much like this and even at the time staff supported it, now it's a dead issue and staff (from the comments above) don't really support your idea.

[Zingy]

Four things:

1) What's this recent TWL fiasco?

2) Remember Qan's TW submissions thing? No one ever used that, we spent forever designing it too.

3) You need staff support for this to have any power. It seems like the staff doesn't support this from replies in this thread.

4) This is an idea that I've thought about extensively in the past. In fact I wanted to implement something like this while I was running TWL a long time ago with captain involvement (in which case it actually would be staff-supported as this probably won't be). In the end after much thinking, I realized that it just wouldn't work.

It's a fine idea theoretically, but in the end there's only so many people that actually care about this game all the time. Even of those that care, they cannot be online enough to make any sort of regular meeting thanks to real life commitment and time zones. Anyone who's ever had to get players to go to a TWL game on a weekend, find TWL hosts, or do anything organized thing in this game would realize this.

A democratic system without any actual meetings, is sort of pointless as nothing could be properly discussed. Even if you opened up a forum to discuss things within a certain time period (i.e. fix this issue before the next TWL round), only a very small fraction would ever bother to post, and of those even less would be constructive much less factual.

What you would actually get is a council of people where only very, very few would actually care at any given time. They would likely care more if they or their squad were directly affected, otherwise not care at all. Generally no one would care if they aren't directly involved unless they were doing it to make some point, aside from maybe the 1 or 2 keeners.

In this way, you cannot have an effective democracy as you won't achieve quorum to ever properly discuss any matter, nor could you ever properly vote on any matter because I doubt 50% of people would ever vote on something in any informed matter.

It's a fine dream, but honestly it will not work. This game is simply too small to have enough people who care who don't already have positions of power for this to work. It is also unimportant enough so that people won't miss real life commitments or especially schedule time in their lives to care about things. And of course there are so many immature people in this game who really don't take it seriously or are even maliciously trying to screw things up for their own gain that it would undermine the legitimacy of the system very quickly.

Epi you make some very good points in this post.

And i'm starting to also agree that the number of people who care enough to do anything is small (people will moan, cry, complain when they or their squad is affected, but if it doesn't involve them they will suddenly become indifferent).

I think Qan's TWPS proposal system had potential, but it was not "marketed" enough for people to actually be pushed to use it.

[Jeenyuss]

Build, a squad not able to compete or play real basing squads wasn't allowed in TWLB

i think this is more geared towards the quicksand-hydra incident and the fistula-plade incident.

[RednaZ]

"democracy", "marketing", next I will see "capitalism".

WAVE THE RED FLAG!!!

[PH]

Several staff members telling me that this is an inefficient system is not an indication of the general public's opinion of it.

TAPS is a draft idea, and we're just discussing it. I am not insisting that it be implemented, I am just promoting discussion about it. That's kind of the point of a forum - to talk and exchange ideas. If the idea doesn't pan out, that's fine.

You like using bold tags, don't you?

[Zingy]

You like using bold tags, don't you?

You're an observant fella aren't you.

[PjOtTeR]

This would never work.
People wouldn't be able to agree who has to be in this council..
Also call it TWATS!!! Trench Wars Association of Tards and Staff..
Any player wanting to be in it is a tard, a stupid tard even...

Also staff cannot favour all, with every decision one is on the wrong end of the decision and one on the right...
I myself have been on the receiving end of a decision just somewhat too often... And staff is making TWL an every mans league...
Just make a lower TWL and a higher TWL or something... cause this is just retarded with all those boob teams even I can beat in TWLD... which is my worst league

[milosh]

What you would actually get is a council of people where only very, very few would actually care at any given time.

as i said... either completely useless or an oligarchy

[Exalt]

fucking nerds, why waste your time on this gay shit, just play the game

[Stompa]

No.

This.

[RiiStar]

Just make a lower TWL and a higher TWL or something... cause this is just retarded with all those boob teams even I can beat in TWLD... which is my worst league

The thought was tried a few years ago with TWIB (they only tried basing as a test)
but again didn't have the motivation or support to push it to a conclusion and working Intermediate league.

I think if it was done right, it could work...
But again theres the commitment/caring issue that plagues so many of these ideas/attempts.

:fear:

[PjOtTeR]

The thought was tried a few years ago with TWIB (they only tried basing as a test)
but again didn't have the motivation or support to push it to a conclusion and working Intermediate league.

I think if it was done right, it could work...
But again theres the commitment/caring issue that plagues so many of these ideas/attempts.

:fear:

Way back there even was a lower and a higher twl in season 4 or 5 atleast...
Im just saying they should have never dropped the staff picking the teams that would qualify... cause this qualification through twd is just dumb..

If TWL would be 8 teams only... the people that still wanna play this twl thingy would all go to the same squads and you'd have 40+ rosters...

Instead drop like the max numbers of players on a team to like 20 or 25, that should be sufficient and make a TWiL (intermediate or whatever way you wanna call it)... and make like 1 squad drop out of TWL every season... and winner of TWiL gets in...
Then to see if #2 of TWiL deserves to be in TWL aswell, you can get a match between the 2nd last of TWL and the #2 of TWiL, to decide who gets in.

However, I doubt this could still be implemented one way or another and dont even hope it will happen cause ppl let things go down the gutter anyways.