Prooving 2 divisions for TWLD would work

[Lame]

Alright, let's take it from the top.

First off, you gotta understand why squads drop out of TWL. Activity and squad morale are probably two of the biggest factors. Take any squad that's lost every game they've played in in any TWL and you've essentially got a squad that's probably on the verge of dropping out of TWL or even dissolving. Obviously it's not guaranteed but you see what I'm getting at. Squads that get raped in TWL lose members because some people can't handle losing, or at the very least they can't handle losing 50-25 or 15:00-1:00 or whatever. You've also got people that jump ship when their squad starts getting raped and so the people go join another squad with hopefully better chances. When you take a league and you start to sort it so that people around the same skill level play each other, you have fewer blowout games where squads go 50-25 and you have more even matches, and so you have squads that previously would have gone 0-10 are now 4-6 or whatever. With this in mind, you have squads losing fewer people, so you have fewer squads dropping out.

Closer matches, even if it's two bad squads playing are more interesting to watch than a good squad pounding a bad squad. Take the Dice vs Syndicate match last season in LD, sure it was a final so there were tons of people in there (200+ iirc) but even if that wouldn't of been a final I guarantee you more people would have come to watch because it ended 50-48 and for parts of that end it was tied around 46-46. It was a close match, you have two squads that were similar in skill and the score showed that. Now who doesn't want more of these matches?

So let's review. A system with fewer (but still some) dropouts than the system we have now, a system with more matches where scores are close and more exciting, and a system where people who are much better don't have to waste their time playing squads that for the most part, shouldn't even be in TWL. Yet you get to keep those newer squads in TWL, by allowing them to play in the lower tier with other squads around the same skill level. So you're still bringing in new talent that needs to be developed but you're also not boring experienced people to tears. Win win for both parties.

It's a good post Reaver, but you know there are other factors that play a part in this problem as well. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'dropout' but 'dissolving' . There are not many people out there that want to captain a squad for a long time and dissolve it in the long run. Esspecially when squads are made by people with good skills, those captains sometimes leave the squad near leagues for better squads. Plus you have those cases in which a captain goes inactive for three weeks, because of real life issues, and when he comes back half his squad is empty. I'd say that in the current (TWD roster) situation too much people hop squads, including squadcaptains, to make a 2 division league work.

[Reaver]

My point wasn't that a pyramid system is flawless or that it would fix every problem we have, my point is that it's better than the system we have. Of course just like any system it depends on how well the rules are done and how well it's run.

Edit: I forgot to add. I think another benefit that will come from this, depending on the qualification process for the pro tier is set up, it will promote squad longevity. Squads are rewarded for sticking around longer and getting more experience in by being invited into pro tier. You could set up the pro tier invites numerous ways but in many ways it's going to give those squads in intermediate something to work for.

[Zeebu]

the more it gets talked about, the better the pyramid system sounds

[RiGhTiOcHaP]

fine idea.. but how would you sort out the pro from inter, to last tier. Looking at ladder now.. i see tough diso and savanger in the top 5, none of which are making playoffs (sry diso). now obviously the ladder was different when we were qualifying, but i dont think even then that warpath was in the top 8. a system like this completely cuts out the underdogs

BUT, i do see the reasoning that squads that get owned in twl tend to drop and dissolve and its bad for tw population (and moral) overall. I think this season was a great example of that. this system would hopefully make the opposite happen, squads win, tw pop grows, people keep playing blah blah. Unless u take into account that our twl squads are sometimes the most inactive in all of twd?

and PLZ dont forget staffing and programing issues, they complain enough as it is.

anyways, my opinion is neutral. you put in enough hard time, and it may just work.

[Zeebu]

fine idea.. but how would you sort out the pro from inter, to last tier. Looking at ladder now.. i see tough diso and savanger in the top 5, none of which are making playoffs (sry diso). now obviously the ladder was different when we were qualifying, but i dont think even then that warpath was in the top 8. a system like this completely cuts out the underdogs

BUT, i do see the reasoning that squads that get owned in twl tend to drop and dissolve and its bad for tw population (and moral) overall. I think this season was a great example of that. this system would hopefully make the opposite happen, squads win, tw pop grows, people keep playing blah blah. Unless u take into account that our twl squads are sometimes the most inactive in all of twd?

and PLZ dont forget staffing and programing issues, they complain enough as it is.

anyways, my opinion is neutral. you put in enough hard time, and it may just work.

you'd use the current twl standing for pro/intermediate and junk.

with a pyramid it will sort itself out soon enough

[Exalt]

you'd use the current twl standing for pro/intermediate and junk.

with a pyramid it will sort itself out soon enough

why not make twd worth something for once and make like a twd season?

maybe this will exclude some of the inactive squads but it will help promote activity if twd is meaningful for once

i duno just throwing it out there, too out of it right now to really think about it past the idea part at the moment

[Zeebu]

why not make twd worth something for once and make like a twd season?

maybe this will exclude some of the inactive squads but it will help promote activity if twd is meaningful for once

i duno just throwing it out there, too out of it right now to really think about it past the idea part at the moment

with a restart, i dont see why not

[FarScape]

Why you guys talk about it like it something new?
The league structure that you talk about its exactly like European football(soccer) leagues. I've made a post about it not long ago in Eelam post, How it might be changed from NBA style league that we have now (conferences) to England Premier league style (or any European league).

Make leagues of 8, Seria A and Seria B (*Italy ). squads who win take 2 points. squads who lose get none (no draw, so its European basketball point allocation). squad that finish top win the championship, second is runner-up.
2 bottom squads go down to Seria B.

Two top squads from Seria B will promot to Seria A (and I say two because we will want new challenge more often).

If in Seria A 2 squads finish with same points, the kill-death ratio will decide who take the championship. If that also a draw, then who won between the two.
Could do 2 rounds of games so in total it will be 14 games league. Also, I remember back in the past that many squads had arenas. Could use that in "Home" games. probably more seriously squads will do it, others will just play in normal TWLD arena.

It simple and smarter than how this league is now. the problem with play-offs now is that if a team is in top form during the season, in play-off they have no advantage and might lose game because someone laggout or some players had to do something in real life.
The European method will just make squads work hard all the season and the best who manage to do it, will win at the end.


If you still want the play-off, you could have houses like championship league in football, or Final Four in basketball... but thats more problematic.

[Ricko]

you say that you thought of this first in eelam's post, well this post came before eelam's......go figure. Not a 14 game league structure; that would take far too long and it would be boring, only 1 game between each squad so the regular season is 7-8 weeks before playoffs. The reason i kept the idea to only 1 squad being promoted/demoted is that if 2 go up who are of a lesser quality than the 2 that go down, then the better squads will complain about having easier competition and this will inevitably lead to whiney posts about how twl is 'dying' etc etc (but im not saying 2 isnt out of the question ofc, just giving the most likely scenario of what would happen). Keep the posts coming!

[Reaver]

You guys are talking about specific details but really, I could name at least a few ideas for how squads qualify for pro or intermediate off the top of my head. That's not really the hard part, the hard part would be finding someone capable and willing to write the rules for the pyramid structure. Maybe Epi could do this.

Also, this isn't something new to TW, just a big change from the norm. There was a pyramid league in TW in the very beginning but it didn't work out so well. From what I've heard it just wasn't well run and the rules weren't so well written either, I never played in it.

[Vys]

So basically copy SVS chaos zone?

[Exalt]

So basically copy SVS chaos zone?

yup, pretty much thats the idea

[FarScape]

you say that you thought of this first in eelam's post, well this post came before eelam's......go figure.

Show me where I said that I thought of this first?
I said that the idea of this structure is not something new, its simple like I gave example: the basketball and football leagues in Europe. So no need to put A LOT of thought about it, but just mimic what is present.
I just mentioned that in Eelam post, thats all. Never brought something new or "first".