Appeal - TWLB Quarterfinals: Mad vs. Penetrate

[Dabram]

Obviously my three captains haven't used this past month to be with their families during Christmas or to celebrate New year's eve with their friends, but they used the month to discuss and test out what lineup would work best in a race to TWENTY minutes of holding the flag. Only then moments before the match was to begin, for some reason it was decided that it could only be a race to 15 minutes of holding the flag.
We knew and were informed exactly what to do, to put those 20 minutes on the board, but 15? The host suddenly made this a complete different event! Imagine when you get told moments before an LD starts that instead of getting 10 deaths everyone just gets 1! As we were completely unprepared for this type of match-up, it's clear to me that the replay should be granted, and we should get another month break in twl because we deserve an equal amount of time as last time so we can again fully prepare for what will be the most important game (if not event) of our lives.



ps. and Jeenyuss smells like old socks

[zhou]

i was too inactive for too many various stretches i suppose

and i haven't always been on 3 league squads, pene and a-s were basing only

way to rain on my parade, though. :[

Sorry to bust your chops but you did not win a title with Penetrate, Jason! also, you're still missing a LD title if my memory serves me right

[brookus]

Just because the bot says 15 minutes doesn't mean it couldn't be manually hosted to 20.

How does one manually host a time race base match? Perhaps you thought it was going to be a 20 minute match point race? That makes sense *rollseyes*

I would point out that in the TWL rules, there is no rule about the playoff basing times being to 20 minutes (that I see). I'm not sure what this appeal would be based on in that case. Maybe there is the assumption that playoff matches are to 20 minutes? That should be something to add to the rules (if it is and I missed it, sorry) for next season.

llater,
Tony

[PH]

So here's how it's going down.

Dice-Brainwave took place at 2:00 (well, a bit after 2:00 since I made several failed attempts at getting a 20-minute module loaded). Mad-Penetrate took place at 4:30. This gave both squads in the late game somewhere in the neighborhood of two hours to check the site and realize that the early game was to 15 minutes, so it should follow that the late game would be to 15 as well. ?nopubchat and all of Mad's other excuses aside, a lack of communication between their players is not my or anyone else's problem. Mad was free to PM me at any point in the match, or for that matter at any point after Dice-Brainwave ended, with any concerns they had about the timer, yet I didn't hear a word from them until "Penetrate needs 3 minutes of flag time to win" appeared on the screen. Yes, I did say the playoffs would be to 20 minutes, but this was long before I couldn't get a 20-minute module loaded. As head op, I reserve the right to change things on the fly in order to keep the league running smoothly. After all the setbacks and delays in the last month, I was not going to simply shut down TWLB and force four games of it to be played the next week. The show had to go on.

So while it's true that this all kind of stems from an oversight on my part, let's call it like it really is: Mad wasn't prepared for the match, they didn't have their optimal line available, and they want a mulligan so they can get Mattey to show up. I mean... Confluence in shark? Really? There was no communication between them and myself until their backs were against the wall. If Confluence is your backup shark, that's not my problem.

There will be no replay. Congratulations to Penetrate for advancing to the semifinals. This thread will remain open for flaming purposes. Goodnight, Trench Wars.

[Salubrious]

I appeal PH's final decision on behalf of anti-scrub and demand that rapid be allowed to proceed to the semifinals.

[Stylez]

I hold no grudge towards this whatsoever. Though, the only complaint I may have on this is why have both TWLD and TWLJ playoffs extend to an best out of three elimination, yet, TWLB keeps at its regular 15 minute time limit?

I get you couldn't work the bot into giving a 20 minute match, but why give the other two leagues a different set of rules? I mean, you could have done a best out of three for TWLB, knowing that isn't the best option seeing as that it would take, at the most, 30 minutes to play each round.

Being playoffs, you should at least give some sort of differentiating circumstances for TWLB as you did with the other two leagues.

Also, on another note, seriously? That's your rebuttal to Mad's appeal? That we should have seen the green messages the bot sent us or that we had a two and a half hour mark to check the site and notice that the prior game played against Dice and Brainwave was only played to 15 minutes?

Just to let you know, with pub chat, private chats, squad chats, PMs, private conversations, other random bot messages, it sort of makes it a bit harder to notice one single bot message pop-up in the game. Certainly when most people have only 5 or so lines of chat on their screens. Plus, the entire time we were all online, we were looking for someone to BD us and/or play in ?go Base, trying to practice or help others practice for the match. As for the, "we should have checked the site and seen the other LB match was only 15 minutes" remark, more than likely we did, but seriously, when you're informed of something previously, being the rules and the length of a match, you don't really pay to much attention to the time limit of other games, seeing as that's more so redundant material in our minds.

Alas, I didn't type all of that out to have the appeal looked at any further, I just found it funny that it was denied on such inane matters and excuses.

Pascone> KING OF EXCUSES
WAR> STOP CRYING!

Just wanted to get that out of the way...

[Black Mage]

I hold no grudge towards this whatsoever. Though, the only complaint I may have on this is why have both TWLD and TWLJ playoffs extend to an best out of three elimination, yet, TWLB keeps at its regular 15 minute time limit?

I get you couldn't work the bot into giving a 20 minute match, but why give the other two leagues a different set of rules? I mean, you could have done a best out of three for TWLB, knowing that isn't the best option seeing as that it would take, at the most, 30 minutes to play each round.

Being playoffs, you should at least give some sort of differentiating circumstances for TWLB as you did with the other two leagues.

Also, on another note, seriously? That's your rebuttal to Mad's appeal? That we should have seen the green messages the bot sent us or that we had a two and a half hour mark to check the site and notice that the prior game played against Dice and Brainwave was only played to 15 minutes?

Just to let you know, with pub chat, private chats, squad chats, PMs, private conversations, other random bot messages, it sort of makes it a bit harder to notice one single bot message pop-up in the game. Certainly when most people have only 5 or so lines of chat on their screens. Plus, the entire time we were all online, we were looking for someone to BD us and/or play in ?go Base, trying to practice or help others practice for the match. As for the, "we should have checked the site and seen the other LB match was only 15 minutes" remark, more than likely we did, but seriously, when you're informed of something previously, being the rules and the length of a match, you don't really pay to much attention to the time limit of other games, seeing as that's more so redundant material in our minds.

Alas, I didn't type all of that out to have the appeal looked at any further, I just found it funny that it was denied on such inane matters and excuses.

Just wanted to get that out of the way...

To be honest, Stylez makes the point much better than anyone else did in this thread for a replay. Mostly because he doesn't try to say that the match would have turned out different with the 5 extra minutes. However, because there is still no way Mad can prove the extra 5 minutes would have actually helped them win, its still a little bit short of a winning argument imo.

[megaman89]

hhahahahaha mad actually appealed this. Seriously, learn to take a beatdown and move on.

[Stylez]

To be honest, Stylez makes the point much better than anyone else did in this thread for a replay. Mostly because he doesn't try to say that the match would have turned out different with the 5 extra minutes. However, because there is still no way Mad can prove the extra 5 minutes would have actually helped them win, its still a little bit short of a winning argument imo.

How could you predict something such as this? I'll use an analogy to explain myself. Take boxing, you have a boxer who seemingly is losing in a fight, though once a few rounds go by, you come to later realize that he was using tactics based on endurance rather than putting his all into the beginning of the match. Having the other fighter wear himself out during the earlier duration of the rounds. Basically, you can't determine most predicaments just on an indecisive prediction.

I've seen a many of BD games won with one squad dominating the other, and on the brink of winning by even a mere second, happening to lose in the end, even with a 5+ minute lead, due to player/ship changes and so on.

Anyways, I'll finish with this comment. With everything that I've seen within this topic and reading the reasons as to why Mad's appeal was rejected, all I got from all of this is that Ph, being on Dice, not wanting to replay the Mad versus Penetrate match because, if so, Brainwave would, in all rights, have a chance to redo their match with Dice as well. Well, that's not entirely what I got from all this, more like a speculative observation. In either case, if you get a deem worthy appeal from someone, come up with a more convincing reason as why not to replay the match. Certainly when the fault not being the captains of Mad and them not having seen a bot message and/or being able to notice game times on a website, rather the blame being that of the coordinator of such event didn't find it important enough to make sure as to having aforementioned it and/or informing the captains of each opposing squadrons of changes and making sure they understand it fully before commencing the match.

[pascone]

what the f does twlb have to do with jav or wb?

both of these leagues had a different number of teams acecepted in them. that proves they aren't the same.

you had no chance of winning basing. take the l and smoke it

[kthx]

Yeah I am sorry you took the more conservative approach to basing instead of the coming out of the corner throwing wild punches approach, because you need to have a lot of endurance to sit on your fücking ass and hit arrow keys and control. If you had known the match was five minutes shorter you would have what, hit the arrow keys quicker and harder at the start of the match and hit control more often to fire your bullets instead of lethargically hitting the keys trying to reserve your energy for the end of the game when the other squads fingers were exhausted from constantly hitting control and arrow keys frantically?

Shut the fück up already. Do you realize how utterly retarded that sounds?

[War]

Stylez starting to cry again

[Black Mage]

How could you predict something such as this? I'll use an analogy to explain myself. Take boxing, you have a boxer who seemingly is losing in a fight, though once a few rounds go by, you come to later realize that he was using tactics based on endurance rather than putting his all into the beginning of the match. Having the other fighter wear himself out during the earlier duration of the rounds. Basically, you can't determine most predicaments just on an indecisive prediction.

I've seen a many of BD games won with one squad dominating the other, and on the brink of winning by even a mere second, happening to lose in the end, even with a 5+ minute lead, due to player/ship changes and so on.

I think thats a false analogy. I don't think mental or physical endurance, or any other factor that is influenced by time (such as becoming aware/countering of opponents playstyle more than your opponent counters your own) plays enough of a factor in TWLB to change the course of the match over an additional 5 minutes.

Also, this wasn't just a 5 minute lead, it was a 9 minute lead, due to one squad going 11 minutes to 2 in the final 13, clearly indicative of one squad pulling away from the other.

The way to predict the outcome is based on the collection of similar events in the past, which can give you a general idea of the likelihood of the outcome. How often do you think a squad with over 70% of the total minutes (15 out of the 21 played) including 85% of the last 13 minutes got 5 minutes before the other squad got 14 in the history of TWD and TWL? I'd guess 95%, but I have no basis for that number to be honest haha.

[Mattey]

Well, sorry I missed the game dudes (I wouldn't have been able to play this sunday either.) Best of luck to Pene in the rest of the playoffs, hope you guys get another title.

[Jason]

i'm right around 83% sure that i was on pene's roster last season, zhou. i was totally inactive for the entire twl season, but i think i was on the overall squad roster.

do you have to be included on the "twl roster" these days to be considered for trophy bragging rights?

benchwarming bragging rights at that, heh.