Trauma+ vs. Dice Appeal

[Xog]

you are officially the dumbest person ive ever seen. i hope you die from a car crash and, while agonizing, u get raped by an horny moose

i hope you get banned from shark 4 life

[Draft]

I hope this is a joke, cape being the idiot he is used our last sub on merce. He didn't know he wasn't on the twl roster, because he thought the bot wouldn't let him add him if he wasn't. we immediately told merce to spec which he did, note his 0-0 score. he had absolutely no effect on the final outcome, if anything we helped trauma because we ended up having to win the gane 7 vs 8. he specced and that's that.

you and i both know what a great baser merce use to be. putting him in invoked fear to trauma+, thus causing them to play even worse. THUS CAUSING THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME.

you deserve this loss
- trauma's lawyer

[Jeenyuss]

i hope you get banned from shark 4 life

why should you say such hateful things. your sealing your own fate of getting raped by an horny moose right now.

[PjOtTeR]

If anything, do a replay or punish Dice for their screw up. (although I'd probably also expect a check to be in place with the bots... heck you could even load an eligible player list from twl site in an array at the start of the game, or let host input it manually b4 game to assure no wrong subs are done...)

Giving Trauma the win wouldn't disadvantage Dice as much as it would other squads... So it wouldn't really be a punishment for them.
Obviously Merce didn't really participate in the match seeing his stats, thus giving Trauma the win would just be downright awkward...

I see a couple of possible solutions for this:
1. Replay the match
2. Let the match stand while:
a. Merce + all captains are ineligible for next week
b. Dice gets -1 win +1 loss

Rest of the solutions just doesn't seem fair to the entire playing field...

[Ephemeral]

The rules are quite clear in this case.

10.02 Ineligible Players
If a player has been found over the lag limits and has been removed from the game by a referee or TWL Op, is sitting out due to the Standard Waiting Period, or fits other non-eligible reasons, the player may not participate or be reconsidered for that game to play unless specific approval has been given by a TWL Op. This includes substitutions. If an ineligible player is added, the game will be killed and the offending squad will receive a forfeit loss and is officially warned. (see Rule 3.05a-III).


3.05a Warnings & Forfeits
...

III) If a squad adds an ineligible player into the game, the match will be forfeited and the squad will receive a warning. If it happens again in the same league division, the squad will be terminated from that league division.

That being said, I do not support Traumua+ appealing this game. I think that it would have been better for us to simply have taken the 15-11 loss and moved on quietly.

Did Dice beat us? Yes. Would Dice have won even without the mistake? Yes. Is it lame to appeal? Yes. Will we win the appeal? Yes.
eph

[curse]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL eph. srsly good shit. Did Dice beat us? Yes. Would Dice have won even without the mistake? Yes. Is it lame to appeal? Yes. Will we win the appeal? Yes.

[Spikester]

Eph is right.

[PjOtTeR]

The rules do state what Eph said.
However the Rules state the game will be killed if an ineligible player is added and the offending squad will receive a forfeit loss. (For one, this didn't happen)

Rules are made for guidelines, to exclude favorism and to give everyone an even fighting chance. Dice realised in time(atleast how I see it) what they did was not by the rules and tried to undo their mistake by simply having merce spec. I do believe a small human mistake like this is possible and bots should be in place to guard people from making these mistakes by not allowing ineligible players to get added.

That said; the rules do not suite this situation and anyone with half a peanut for a brain would understand just enforcing them blindly in this case isn't the best solution. The rulebook gives other squads not at all involved with this mistake an unfair disadvantage, which is what these rules should evade in the first place.

[Barton]

The rules do state what Eph said.
However the Rules state the game will be killed if an ineligible player is added and the offending squad will receive a forfeit loss. (For one, this didn't happen)

Rules are made for guidelines, to exclude favorism and to give everyone an even fighting chance. Dice realised in time(atleast how I see it) what they did was not by the rules and tried to undo their mistake by simply having merce spec. I do believe a small human mistake like this is possible and bots should be in place to guard people from making these mistakes by not allowing ineligible players to get added.

That said; the rules do not suite this situation and anyone with half a peanut for a brain would understand just enforcing them blindly in this case isn't the best solution. The rulebook gives other squads not at all involved with this mistake an unfair disadvantage, which is what these rules should evade in the first place.

For once pj got it right. The outcome of the game would be the same with or without the last sub.

[paradise!]

due to having fewer players, it could cause the other team to be over confident, making more risky moves, thus losing. In this specific case, I believe Dice did this and used these strategies to win and the match should be replayed.

spot on.

missing the part where the northern lights reflected off lake erie into someone's eyes

[Turban]

it depends whether or not the twl operators want to enforce the rules. so far they haven't done that (see: soft lock & hard lock rules) thus it wouldn't be too surprising for them to deny this appeal.

as i see it, if we are going to enforce every single rule in twl then trauma+ is going to win this appeal. if we want to use common sense, then it'll be denied.

(personally, i want traumas appeal to be denied so sk8 has a better chance to make it to the playoffs!)

[Stylez]

All I know is, even if Trauma+ gets the appeal approved they'll only hurt themselves in the long run. A lot of people were there to spectate the match, hell, it was even recorded. Everyone, I would hope, would agree that Dice did nothing "illegal" in terms of trying to get one over on you guys. They made a simple mistake, but rectified that mistake by taking a handicap.

Trauma+ is just giving themselves a bad rep in this zone. Take the lose and make good for yourselves next week. There are still quite a few weeks left of TWL. Try getting a win without looking for a loop hole. Also, don't get me wrong, if Dice would have left merce in, or even subbed him out and didn't take the 7 v 8 handicap, I would totally agree with this appeal.

Would you guys of done this in EG? Ask yourselves that... B)

[Major Crisis]

I hope this is a joke, cape being the idiot he is used our last sub on merce. He didn't know he wasn't on the twl roster, because he thought the bot wouldn't let him add him if he wasn't. we immediately told merce to spec which he did, note his 0-0 score. he had absolutely no effect on the final outcome, if anything we helped trauma because we ended up having to win the gane 7 vs 8. he specced and that's that.

I got told by your players he got specced cuz of lag, not cuz you guys asked to.
But the game didnt really changed by this sub, Trauma+ did even get more minutes from it. So I agree what Ephemeral says.

[Ephemeral]

The rules do state what Eph said.
However the Rules state the game will be killed if an ineligible player is added and the offending squad will receive a forfeit loss. (For one, this didn't happen)...

I agree that the rules are written in a way that implies that things will happen in 'real-time'. But for obviously reasons this would rarely happen unless staff is willing to make 'on-the-fly' rulings. I have rarely seen this ever happen and would assume that staff would generally want to confer in these kinds situations.

...Rules are made for guidelines, to exclude favorism and to give everyone an even fighting chance. Dice realised in time(atleast how I see it) what they did was not by the rules and tried to undo their mistake by simply having merce spec. I do believe a small human mistake like this is possible and bots should be in place to guard people from making these mistakes by not allowing ineligible players to get added...

Respectfully disagree, rules are the specifications that we all play under, they are not guidelines.

...That said; the rules do not suite this situation and anyone with half a peanut for a brain would understand just enforcing them blindly in this case isn't the best solution. The rulebook gives other squads not at all involved with this mistake an unfair disadvantage, which is what these rules should evade in the first place.

For once pj got it right. The outcome of the game would be the same with or without the last sub.

I agree that special situations sometimes have to be interpreted in the context of a rule. But this is where the slope gets slippery. And applying reasoning such as what the outcome of the game might have been or not been after the fact is one sure way to turn it into a cluster fuck. This is why people talk about ‘the spirit or intent’ of a rule or law.
The spirit or intent of this rule seems very obvious, it is meant to stop squad leaders from adding ineligible players into a game at all. I see nothing in the rule that seems to indicate that it is meant to prevent a squad from gaining an advantage.

If the intent is what you guys are saying, then the rule should be re-visited. But the rule, and its intent, that was in place yesterday is abundantly clear. Of course Summa will do what he thinks is best, but the best way to avoid drama is to simply enforce what is on the books. If he does do this, then it is true that rules are just ‘guidelines’.
eph

[riske]

IS there a rule that says a captain has to memorize the roster?

That rule eph posted made sense when you had to pm the host with who you were adding, not a bot.


If this appeal is granted, should we appeal that the game was not canceled correctly?

If a wb hit tab and a bomb came out, would you blame the wb?(supposing no cheat engine of course) It would obviously be the fault of the programmer/settings.