TWLB Week 1 Spastic v Dice Official Appeal Thread

[Rucci]

Vati... all this time Dice lost... is a lie.

[Vatican Assassin]

he referred to it as a jupe cuz there is no other term to use, but clearly this is not a jupe as we have ever known it. this has never happened in twlb, ever. the reason you cannot appeal jupes and no one has any sympathy for you is because we know how to avoid them, and only you can cause it by ramming a mine on flag. this particular "non-flag change" was not caused by human error or by anyone on dice, so there is a difference between it and the jupe described in 7.03. Stop referring to 7.03 if you are unable to read the whole paragraph.

ph and i didn't see the beginning of the game so we don't know exactly how much time changed hands or what may have actually caused the "jupe", but I'm interested to hear how he would you have ruled this

[Summa]

Perhaps he is just misusing his terms. I don't know. Also, that is a quite limited definition of jupe. Jupes can occur simply from dying while touching the flag and then phase touching it as well. But that is irrelevant. The first sentence says "Games will not be replayed due to jupes." And in his post he referred to the issue as a jupe. Therein lies my question.

[Rucci]

I know there is no justice in this world, but losers creating no justice in this little game? Honestly everyone needs to grow up and stop whining about losses.

[Barton]

Summa is right..

follow your own rules (7.03) and fix this crap..

[Rucci]

MM God, what do you do in real life? You have no common sense... How can Dice even argue? They were up 4-0 and every dice player says they were down 0-4 I dont get anything.

[Vatican Assassin]

7.03
"...This happens when a shark places a mine on the flag and a member of the other team tries to go through the mine to get the flag. It will appear that the new team has the flag, but the other team still gets credit. Do not ram mines; rep them and this will not happen."

rules, like laws, include definitions of terms to help interpret them. this defines jupe as a rammed mine, that didn't happen, ergo, this is not a jupe as we know it. it is different, there is no rule about it, so go to 7.01. try real hard to put yourself in dice's shoes, work on your empathy and this decision will make sense. though it does no affect me, I am happy about it. I do not want teams winning, and especially beating me, because the flag will not change even though we did not ram a mine on it. I sort of like having control over the course of events and not winning or losing because of outside influences.

[Summa]

First of all, sorry for the delay on the official reply to the appeal made by Dice, about their TWLB game vs. Spastic. This was due to the fact that our head TWL Op (flared) could not be involved in this matter, since it was his squad who made the appeal in the first place. Therefor the other TWL Ops and the host of that particular game had to made a decision on this appeal, based on their best judgement and what they might have witnessed watching this game. We as TWL Ops concluded that the time amount and number of times the flag juped for Dice was unfair and could have changed the outcome of the game, particularly since it was a close game in the end (10:39 for Dice, 15:00 for Spastic). These flagjupes weren't caused by players dying on the flag nor by ramming enemy shark bombs. The time that Spastic lost because of flag jupes was significantly less than the time amount Dice lost in the end, and therefor we have decided to grant Dice the appeal.

In coordination with Flared, Dice and Spastic's captains may either come to an agreement to replay this match the upcoming weekend, or they can decide to replay it in the official replay week, after the last regular season matches have been played.

I am sorry, but you are wrong.

Within this post, you still refer to what occurred as a jupe. If you want to tell me it is an error in arena settings then by all means I will let you have it. But it explicitly states in the rules that you cannot appeal on the grounds of a jupe. This appeal doesn't even exist in that sense. So explain it to me in a different way, because what I am hearing is "we don't follow the rules, we dance to our own drum beat".

I await your explanation on how something that is explicitly stated as "cannot be appealed" not only counted as an appeal, but then got granted.

[Vatican Assassin]

they won't play with the same line up but they should have been made to, no one from dice would object since they just won the appeal and it would fall into the common sense category. By the way ephemeral and Spastic, I believe this ruling is consistent with the rules as they stand now:

7.01
If a squad feels that such factors as game referee decisions, staff involvement, server or router error, cheating, or other instances have affected the outcome and fairness of a game, that squad has the right to appeal to the League Operator. It is up to the squad to ensure that as much information as possible is included in the appeal for the League Operators to make a fair decision.

7.03
No games will be replayed as a result of a 'Flag Jupe' in TWLB games. A 'Flag Jupe' is when the flag appears to change to a different team, but the bot does not recognize it. This happens when a shark places a mine on the flag and a member of the other team tries to go through the mine to get the flag. It will appear that the new team has the flag, but the other team still gets credit. Do not ram mines; rep them and this will not happen.


As you can see, 7.03 does not come into play, as it clearly defines what a jupe is by describing the mine being rammed on the flag. That did not happen, so this is not typical "jupe." This falls in 7.01, which reads, "If a squad feels that such factors as game referee decisions, staff involvement, server or router error, cheating, or other instances have affected the outcome and fairness of a game." This is one of the "other instances" and is up the the referee and ops to decide if it is worth granting an appeal. Good decision, and a good idea to take your time considering the egos I mean skillful players involved.

[Reaver]

I agree with you eph, the importance of well written and defined rules are important, but just as important is the common sense that goes with them. I don't know who's running TWL these days but one of the things I really enjoyed with PH running was that common sense and reasoning were just as important as the rules. Apparently there is some rule that says no 'flag jupes' are replayed but someone with some reasoning overruled and now this game is going to be replayed, as it should. That is of course assuming the actual jupe times really happened. I wish I could be there to see the replay, it'll be interesting to see if dice plays with the same lineup or not

[Ephemeral]

I agree with this decision since it is consistent with previous seasons of ignoring the rules.
But seriously, either get rid of the rules or fix them so they become meaningful. For example, when was last time anyone saw the rule about not granting additional time before the game starts actually followed? Surely most would agree that the way the rules are written cause teeny girl drama each season. The rules are, IMO, sometimes vague and at other times are very specific. Make them consistent, either highly detailed with little room for misinterpretation or intentionally less detailed and let refs make the calls as they see them. I also disagree with the inclusion of the punishment in the rules. Last year we suggested breaking them up into ‘major’ and ‘minor’ infractions instead of trying to define the exact punishment for each indiscretion. This would seem to provide the flexibility needed to handle specific situations instead of putting stuff down in writing and then constantly having drama/whining and looking like the rules aren’t followed.
eph

[Efhat]

<3! and afterall crip, I showed up how to make the pacman face on facebook chat! LOL

(^^^)

[Weak]

<3! and afterall crip, I showed up how to make the pacman face on facebook chat! LOL

[Efhat]

you never promised me anything besides herpes and aids! :[
plus not sure if your mentally in the right mind to win me lb, you go as your miami heat go! hehe

-____-

meg <3

[Weak]

????
NO CRIPPLE?
fuk u

you never promised me anything besides herpes and aids! :[
plus not sure if your mentally in the right mind to win me lb, you go as your miami heat go! hehe