TWLB Week 1 Spastic v Dice Official Appeal Thread

[Vatican Assassin]

he referred to it as a jupe cuz there is no other term to use, but clearly this is not a jupe as we have ever known it. this has never happened in twlb, ever. the reason you cannot appeal jupes and no one has any sympathy for you is because we know how to avoid them, and only you can cause it by ramming a mine on flag. this particular "non-flag change" was not caused by human error or by anyone on dice, so there is a difference between it and the jupe described in 7.03. Stop referring to 7.03 if you are unable to read the whole paragraph.

ph and i didn't see the beginning of the game so we don't know exactly how much time changed hands or what may have actually caused the "jupe", but I'm interested to hear how he would you have ruled this

[Rucci]

Vati... all this time Dice lost... is a lie.

[Vatican Assassin]

you know, as twl op, you can do whatever you want, and I would strongly suggest making Dice play with the same line up as before. Spastic has undergone a very very close and questionable appeal, dice should not receive extra benefits as well.

[Cig Smoke]

LOL boy spastic people look even more stupid then before

Now we'll show u why u should of kept spastic dead this week Thx

[Summa]

he referred to it as a jupe cuz there is no other term to use, but clearly this is not a jupe as we have ever known it. this has never happened in twlb, ever. the reason you cannot appeal jupes and no one has any sympathy for you is because we know how to avoid them, and only you can cause it by ramming a mine on flag. this particular "non-flag change" was not caused by human error or by anyone on dice, so there is a difference between it and the jupe described in 7.03. Stop referring to 7.03 if you are unable to read the whole paragraph.

ph and i didn't see the beginning of the game so we don't know exactly how much time changed hands or what may have actually caused the "jupe", but I'm interested to hear how he would you have ruled this

I am sorry, but things like this don't just "happen". There is a route cause for its occurrence. Perhaps the check time is significantly longer in the arena settings for the TWLB arena. Either way, the root of this necessarily has to be in a jupe. The prolongation of the jupe timing could be due to bot error or arena settings errors, but the only known way to have time being registered for one team while the other appears to have the flag is rooted in the concept of a jupe. I stand by my previous statements that this appeal shouldn't even exist; and so long as it is referred to as a jupe or an unknown problem, I will regard it as illegitimate.

Edit: I will add this: As someone who was a TWL op for 4 seasons, it would have taken me all of 20 minutes to deny this appeal. Not because it is my squad, but because it is an appeal on the grounds of a jupe, which is clearly stated as not replayable. Afterwards I probably would consider making a change in rules to make considerations for extreme cases, but it would still necessarily have to be denied on the spot.

[Efhat]

You know what I dont understand about all of this, this will probably be off topic but oh well.
This appeal has been blown way out of proportion, especially out of all these Spastic players who have NEVER posted EVER in forums, and suddenly pop up with their biased opinions.
Honestly, in the end of the day, what's so wrong about a replay? Are you guys seriously going to take pride on this win? You guys seriously dont have any compassion or respect? Last time I remember if you wanted to be the best you would have to beat the best.
It's like saying, Bulls beating the Heat without the big three, honestly? What self pleasure do you get in that?
Are you guys seriously that desperate that you don't want to play us again? If you guys are going to sit here and blabber about "OH DICE IS MAD BECAUSE THEY LOST BLABLABLABLA" Well, if you're so good you wouldn't have a problem in doing it again, right?
Because it clearly sounds like you guys won't step up and play the real line that shouldve been played.

Edit: Also, when I spoke to people about this situation, including SEVERAL STAFF MEMBERS who attended (over 5) They said their was no rams on the flag, it wasn't a regular jupe. As Vati said, this has never happend in LB EVER BEFORE.
So I think the best thing that this should be referred to is a Bot Malfunction. And everyone who I talked to certainly agree on that statement, it wasn't a regular Jupe, as described in the Rules of the ramming on flag, but if Spastic was put in this situation, it'd def be a different story.

[Summa]

You know what I dont understand about all of this, this will probably be off topic but oh well.
This appeal has been blown way out of proportion, especially out of all these Spastic players who have NEVER posted EVER in forums, and suddenly pop up with their biased opinions.
Honestly, in the end of the day, what's so wrong about a replay? Are you guys seriously going to take pride on this win? You guys seriously dont have any compassion or respect? Last time I remember if you wanted to be the best you would have to beat the best.
It's like saying, Bulls beating the Heat without the big three, honestly? What self pleasure do you get in that?
Are you guys seriously that desperate that you don't want to play us again? If you guys are going to sit here and blabber about "OH DICE IS MAD BECAUSE THEY LOST BLABLABLABLA" Well, if you're so good you wouldn't have a problem in doing it again, right?
Because it clearly sounds like you guys won't step up and play the real line that shouldve been played.

Edit: Also, when I spoke to people about this situation, including SEVERAL STAFF MEMBERS who attended (over 5) They said their was no rams on the flag, it wasn't a regular jupe. As Vati said, this has never happend in LB EVER BEFORE.
So I think the best thing that this should be referred to is a Bot Malfunction. And everyone who I talked to certainly agree on that statement, it wasn't a regular Jupe, as described in the Rules of the ramming on flag, but if Spastic was put in this situation, it'd def be a different story.

For me it has nothing to actually do with pride over the win. It has everything to do with consistency in regards to the established rules. As someone who studies law, the treatment of this appeal is an absolute absurdity. If we made this appeal after losing in similar circumstances, I would be pissed at whoever made it and if it was approved I would still be bitching.

However your claims about spastic people coming out of the woodwork who never post, etc. is a statement of hypocrisy, because you have those same exact people on dice who would have done the same thing given a role reversal. Also, I have nearly 5x as many posts as you.

But here is the real issue: If you call it a jupe, then you have directly contradicted the rules, which should make every single team raise its eyebrows and claim bullshit. If you call it an unknown arena/bot error, you have granted an appeal on unknown grounds and opened yourself up for every game that is lost this season to be appealed on the same errors (regardless of if they effected the match outcome). Either way, you get screwed and in a sense act contrary to the established rules by granting this appeal.

[meddi]

that would be penetrate with their army from Beijing, Xande.

:undecided:

[Efhat]

For me it has nothing to actually do with pride over the win. It has everything to do with consistency in regards to the established rules. As someone who studies law, the treatment of this appeal is an absolute absurdity. If we made this appeal after losing in similar circumstances, I would be pissed at whoever made it and if it was approved I would still be bitching.

However your claims about spastic people coming out of the woodwork who never post, etc. is a statement of hypocrisy, because you have those same exact people on dice who would have done the same thing given a role reversal. Also, I have nearly 5x as many posts as you.

But here is the real issue: If you call it a jupe, then you have directly contradicted the rules, which should make every single team raise its eyebrows and claim bullshit. If you call it an unknown arena/bot error, you have granted an appeal on unknown grounds and opened yourself up for every game that is lost this season to be appealed on the same errors (regardless of if they effected the match outcome). Either way, you get screwed and in a sense act contrary to the established rules by granting this appeal.

YOU have more posts than me, yes, what about the other 4 people who have been blabbering about this issue?
And actually, no, we wouldnt have. For example, take a look at the appeal that Trauma+ had with us last season, I didn't see people with 16 posts popping up from our squad, or 50, or 100.

From what I was told, the host was contacted about this situation early on in the game and he informed other staff members about it. And said the game couldn't be killed or restarted, he said to play it and appeal it after.
And dude, how is it contradicting the rules? Why don't you read what type of JUPE it DESCRIBES in the rules. That jupe DIDNT HAPPEN in the game.
Rules aren't consistent enough anyways in these situations, but common sense, if the host was there and vouched for the 4+ minute loss because of this situation, and the game was done 15-10:40, clearly there should be a replay.
Now if this was like a 1 minute or maybe 1:30-2 (pushing it) jupe, and you guys won by 15-10, this would be a different story.

[Summa]

YOU have more posts than me, yes, what about the other 4 people who have been blabbering about this issue?
And actually, no, we wouldnt have. For example, take a look at the appeal that Trauma+ had with us last season, I didn't see people with 16 posts popping up from our squad, or 50, or 100.

From what I was told, the host was contacted about this situation early on in the game and he informed other staff members about it. And said the game couldn't be killed or restarted, he said to play it and appeal it after.
And dude, how is it contradicting the rules? Why don't you read what type of JUPE it DESCRIBES in the rules. That jupe DIDNT HAPPEN in the game.
Rules aren't consistent enough anyways in these situations, but common sense, if the host was there and vouched for the 4+ minute loss because of this situation, and the game was done 15-10:40, clearly there should be a replay.
Now if this was like a 1 minute or maybe 1:30-2 (pushing it) jupe, and you guys won by 15-10, this would be a different story.

Do my arguments sound like the arguments of the other 4 ppl who crawled in here? And yes, I have witnessed and been subject to the dice bandwaggon on multiple occaisions. You guys, in general, do the exact same thing as was done by many spastic members.

What is lost in your post and in M_M's post is that Spastic also lost time due to the issue. Time estimated to be well over a minute by some. (Realistically you lost 2-3 and we lost 1, but in a2m extremism terms you lost 4 and we lost 1:30-2) Which again does not add up to the disparity of scores.

The opening sentence states "Jupes are not replayable". The following definition is irrelevant. You conceded to accepting that definition when you included the concept of jupe as the focal point of your appeal. If we want to get technical. However, I think it is plain to see that the definition given there is an inadequate definition on multiple grounds.

W/e I have said what needed to be said in regards to inconsistency with the rules and I expect a response.

[the_paul]

So the TWL ops, after having spent 3 days in deliberations over this appeal, decide to not impose any roster limit on Dice? Regardless of how you think it happened, Dice's starters took the week off (some of them), Spastic showed up, and Spastic won. Now not only is Spastic losing its win, but Dice is being bailed out by being allowed to add whoever they want? That's pretty fucked up. I'm not against the replay, but I'm definitely against bailing Dice out completely. That's a huge oversight by the ops to either A) not mention it or B) not impose it.

[Summa]

So the TWL ops, after having spent 3 days in deliberations over this appeal, decide to not impose any roster limit on Dice? Regardless of how you think it happened, Dice's starters took the week off (some of them), Spastic showed up, and Spastic won. Now not only is Spastic losing its win, but Dice is being bailed out by being allowed to add whoever they want? That's pretty fucked up. I'm not against the replay, but I'm definitely against bailing Dice out completely. That's a huge oversight by the ops to either A) not mention it or B) not impose it.

don't worry, they will get back to you and me in 4 days.

am i allowed to appeal an appeal?

cuz i am gunna.

[Cig Smoke]

So the TWL ops, after having spent 3 days in deliberations over this appeal, decide to not impose any roster limit on Dice? Regardless of how you think it happened, Dice's starters took the week off (some of them), Spastic showed up, and Spastic won. Now not only is Spastic losing its win, but Dice is being bailed out by being allowed to add whoever they want? That's pretty fucked up. I'm not against the replay, but I'm definitely against bailing Dice out completely. That's a huge oversight by the ops to either A) not mention it or B) not impose it.

Maybe this is my opinion, and dice's mindset... but we always want to play the best lineup every squad can offer, that way when a squad loses they cant blame it on "not having so and so here blah blah"... On top of that, i wouldnt consider the line spastic had as there "top line" either... lol

Plus how can u "limit" the roster... the same exact 8 have to play? how can u schedule and get a game where the same 8 ppl showup and play... i mean really??? Or do u just want to "limit the roster" on those 3 guys specifically? because then its a bit biased opinion u have there

[Summa]

Maybe this is my opinion, and dice's mindset... but we always want to play the best lineup every squad can offer, that way when a squad loses they cant blame it on "not having so and so here blah blah"... On top of that, i wouldnt consider the line spastic had as there "top line" either... lol

Plus how can u "limit" the roster... the same exact 8 have to play? how can u schedule and get a game where the same 8 ppl showup and play... i mean really??? Or do u just want to "limit the roster" on those 3 guys specifically? because then its a bit biased opinion u have there

What he is getting at is this: We won. That is an undeniable fact. A replay was (illegitimately) granted on some grounds which make no sense to me personally and are questionable at best. Yet no consolation was given to Spastic. Dice got everything they wanted from this shady shit, and we got robbed. That is what he is getting at. You wouldn't understand because you didn't just get hoodwinked.

[meddi]

This whole ordeal is a farce. Dice's time loss due to [whateverthehellyouwannacallit] has been hyperbolized to the point where people who were not even there seem to think the bot spent the entire game shitting on Dice.

This crying and back-n-forth BS could have been (partially) avoided. Hulk should have, almost immediately, made a statement addressing the magnitude of the malfunction. He may not be an Op, and can't accept/deny the appeal on his own, but his immediate and public input would have prevented things from growing into exaggerations and biased claims. It may be A2M's place to put in the appeal, but having Dice (or Spastic) claim how much time was lost/gained is obviously flawed.

I don't dispute the ruling, because I log into TWs to play matches, not avoid them; however, in the future, quick response from match hosts outlining erroneous circumstances would be nice.