pene/pala lb appeal

[Wage]

Good point, T_P, well said.

Didn't u just make a thread to appeal the fierce game, and what was the score in that 1?

[death row]

This is like asking to replay an NBA game that ended 100-60 because the winning team didn't get called for a shot clock violation on their last possession.

lol great example

[the_paul]

As confident I am in your opinion summa, you'll excuse me for trusting the word of the host and the other TWL ops that were present and watching the game, and naturally the decision stands.

The Spastic Dice game was an entirely different situation, so I'm not even going to begin to justify the comparisons.

[Summa]

As confident I am in your opinion summa, you'll excuse me for trusting the word of the host and the other TWL ops that were present and watching the game, and naturally the decision stands.

The Spastic Dice game was an entirely different situation, so I'm not even going to begin to justify the comparisons.

They can disagree on the nature of the time, that is fine to trust them on that; but to say that both teams were in the FR is an outright lie. Just thought you would like to know. And no, in terms of rules it is an appeal based upon the same exact rule imo, so they are not different situations. The disregarding of an explicit rule in one situation should logically lead to the disregarding of it in this situation as well. The upholding of it should translate similarly; but hey what do I know right?

[Veloce]

Not sure what you were watching, but I played in the game and can assure you that both teams were in the flag room when the game ended. I can even tell you that exact spot me and wingzero were in when the game ended...

[the_paul]

Not sure what you were watching, but I played in the game and can assure you that both teams were in the flag room when the game ended. I can even tell you that exact spot me and wingzero were in when the game ended...

I know you're still bitter about the spas-dice situation summa, but at this point I think it's time for you to throw in the towel.

[Diakka]

stop with the retarded appeals they are a pathetic attempt to try and smuggle a win out of TIER 1 squads (vati). also this appeal never would have happened in the first place if twlb was kept to 8 squads...so stfu and stop whining kids

[Ephemeral]

Sorry for sounding stupid, but wtf is a 'bot jupe'? We have seen jupes for years and I know that in the last year or two there has been something of a delay in the final 2 seconds before the game is declared over, but I have never, ever seen the flag jupe without a weapon being used over top of flag while a 'turn over' is occurring. Am I missing something or is this just a figment of someone’s appeal imagination? Are they saying the flag just jupes out of the blue? if so, has anyone else actually see this happen?
eph

[paradise!]

I know you're still bitter about the spas-dice situation summa, but at this point I think it's time for you to throw in the towel.

easy tp, the man has a point. If pala was holding cram and the flag really did jupe for 42 seconds, then this should be granted.

whatever the ruling is, just be consistent. These appeal threads will die out quick if at least SOMETHING on this topic is explicitly in the rulebooks.

i wasn't there, but i'm intrigued to see these conflicting views on something obvious as was pala holding cram or not.

[Jones]

this sounds awfully alot like the dice vs. spastic game. same shit, no favorism

[Zeebu]

replay it as a scenerio

give paladen the flagroom with 6 minutes or whatever they had with the flag.

give penetrate 14:40 or whatever they had in a position to attack the cram

basically, paladen needs to get 9 minutes before penetrate can get less than one


done

edit: that way paladen can get their 'replay' and we only have to sit through no more than 2 minutes rather than 15 minutes with penetrate winning both games regardless

edit2: the only reason i suggest this is because the 'flag event' happened at the end of the game rather than closer the beginning like in the dice-spastic game. i still think the best course of action for the dice-spastic game should have been a stoppage of the game.

[Veloce]

There was a mine on the top left corner near the flag (my mine). That mine got repelled and I didn't get any kills with it, but I'm sure some spids were emp'd. One of those spids dove at the flag and got killed by a spider bullet just milliseconds before flag touch. A classical jupe.

You don't need a mine to get a jupe. A burst can get you a jupe, and so can a spider bullet. It's just part of the game. Just be really carefull near the flag.

I'm not really sure how the jupe happened, and I was as surprised as anyone (who didn't know it happened) when I saw the game end. If I had to guess, I'd go with the seemingly likely scenario that Pot mentioned since I did not see any mines involved.

[the_paul]

easy tp, the man has a point. If pala was holding cram and the flag really did jupe for 42 seconds, then this should be granted.

whatever the ruling is, just be consistent. These appeal threads will die out quick if at least SOMETHING on this topic is explicitly in the rulebooks.

i wasn't there, but i'm intrigued to see these conflicting views on something obvious as was pala holding cram or not.

The only point anyone is that a similar situation happened in that the bot was granting flag time to the team that didn't have the the flag. The differenced are that, in the dice game spastic was still getting time for several minutes while pure_luck was dead, respawning, and attacking their cram, and that game ended with spastic winning by a margin roughly equivalent to the consensus of time that dice left.

This game paladen lost, by all accounts, no more than 20 seconds while there was an even flag room fight going on with no advantage. I've even heard that, at the time, paladen was playing 7v8 due to lagouts but I don't know if that's true. The "advantage", if there was one, was absolutely marginal at best, and was nowhere close to warranting a replay.

I realize there are different situations spelled out in the rules, but everyone needs to realize that there is no set of rules that is completely waterproof. There's holes in every set of rules, everywhere in the world, and obviously common sense is the overlying deciding factor. The 2 situations are only similar in that there was a bot failure or whatever you want to call it, beyond that they are entirely different. You can spin it however you want, when you cut the bias and cut the shit, the situations are night and day.

[Ephemeral]

Respectively disagree Paulo. The rules are poorly written and have been a source of drama since the first season. I am not sure which is more surprising, the fact that we keep limping along every year dealing with the drama or the fact that players keep bitching about them each year when the know up-front the state of the rules. Think of the time and energy spent on rules issues over the years, would it not have been better to spend some of that time improving the rules? I agree with you that no rules are lock tight and that humans seem to always dig for exceptions in them. Nothing will completely stop this but I don’t think that is justification for not revisiting the rules each year and making improvements.
As far as this particular appeal situation, there is nothing in the rules that states that the over-all outcome of the game has any influence or consideration in determining the an appeal. My opinion is that it is lame to consider the out-come of the game during an appeal given the context of the current rules. I do not think lumping them under ‘common sense’ is a good fit either (not to say that this wouldn’t be a good thing for new rules).
Here is my opinion about for fixing the rules (nothing new here, these points have been made before). The current rules suck because parts are very specific and definitive while other parts are vague and open for interpretation. Do a rewrite and make them definitive, no more ‘softness’, include new rules for lessons learned over the years. Split out the ‘punishment’ parts from the rules. The ‘punishment’ parts are where common sense and some interpretation belong, but make the rules rock solid and unyielding. Outline and define the punishments well, but leave the door open for handling the inevitable exceptions that will occur. Avoid using examples in the rules. Rule 7.03 states, “No games will be replayed as a result of a 'Flag Jupe' in TWLB games.” But then goes on to define a specific flag jupe situation, by doing this it opens the door for someone to say ‘but this wasn’t that kind of flag jupe’. There are two choices here, either drop all examples or make sure you write them to cover every example. This is what I mean about making the rules definitive.
eph

[ogron]

After consulting with all of the TWL Ops online, as well as the host of the match, we have come to a unanimous decision. Paladen's appeal for a replay has been unanimously DENIED by all members of the TWL team, and as such the score and the game statistics shall stand, as they were.

In reference to the previous appeal granted to Dice, the circumstances in this situation were not nearly as serious. Dice lost several minutes of flag time, while Paladen lost, at most, 20 seconds. Furthermore, I was told by the host that Paladen made no attempt to make contact during the game, despite being told that doing so was a necessity should problems arise. Last but not least, there was no clear advantage of the time of this "jupe", as both squads were still in the flag room and there was no cram. The lopsided score and insignificant amount of time in question made it clear to us all that this appeal will not be granted.

"The lopsided score and insignificant amount of time in question made it clear to us all that this appeal will not be granted."

ahh, the "you probably wouldn't have won anyway" defense -- classic objectivity at its best.

we had control of the FR, Pene was huddled behind the right notch getting decimated, even though that is completely irrelevant to the argument.

we were told by the host mod to make a formal post/complaint in order to appeal, and did so.

the bottom line is we were cheated out of time by a bot malfunction and cheated out of a chance to win the game. the likelihood of that possibility, however remote, is completely irrelevant.

this is some of the worst TWL opping ive ever seen in 10 years, and if it were Dice instead of Paladen the outcome would likely be different, although with this shitty opping who knows.

this has to be one of the most clear-cut and obvious appeal-approvals ive ever seen -- the bot malfunctioned and ended the game before it should have been over -- your opinion doenst fucking matter- it needs to be replayed.

we would probably lose a re-match, but, again, that's not the point. the point is the bot malfunctioned, and i guess the end result is it's some paladen-hating faggot like the_paul bitter we're in TWLB making decisions about our games.