TWL Changes

[ogron]

TWLB

64 players with 4 games or more, so about 8 people per team

TWLD/TWLJ

60 players with 4 games or more, about 6 people per team


Overall, there were about 150 people that "played" TWL across all 3 leagues (4+), spread out over 28 slots, so about 5.35 players per squad slot in each league (overlap due to multi-leaguers), and that's being generous (ie, Harder "played" 4 games, had 5 kills, and logged only 22 minutes)

For instance, LEGO's LB had the same players almost every week -- 5 played 7-8 games, 2 played 5 games, and 8 people split the final 1-2 slots while 14 sat in spec watching every week -- is that efficient use of the limited TW population's resources?

TWL had 400+ persons rostered, and 100-150 played.

There are exceptions (Quicksand, Spastic), but for the most part the turnout rate on sundays is double to triple the amount of people added on most squads.

I think something that needs to be accounted for is the halfway shift in the season, where there becomes a significant amount of TWL players who've become inactive, and many who become active, and there is a noticeable shift in the composition of who is playing in the squadron. I really think if this system goes into place there is a Week 4 window to change a few players in/out of the TWL roster, and then again for the playoffs (for people who have been on same squad since roster lock, obviously) -- even if its just 2-3 players than you can change in/out from TWL to TWD roster, with those severe limits, that could make the world of difference for being able to show.

[Ward]

Good call, but how would postponing the games work? Does that mean one squad would try hard to get their players to come for this week and then the other could decide to call the game off? But aside from that, I can only see postponing work if 2 teams were given time to complete the game on the following week before the next sunday's TWL week
I agree though on limiting rosters

[Zeebu]

for regular season games, if two teams agree... allow a time whenever you want to during the week provided you can also get a host and a backup just in case

[Jerome Scuggs]

for what its worth, it seems like post-twl squads are smaller+more diverse. i know it's too early to tell and usually a few squads merge or die, especially if/when summer slump hits, but maybe if caps make a concerted effort in the next few weeks to diversify we could start setting precedents.

[Burnt]

I think what Ease meant by inactive players is simply just TWD roster remaining unlimited.

Meaning the roster cap is not extended to TWD, which Ease claimed it was.

Oh? What about Siege/Onix/Light/Doom/Disoblige/Sk8 etc. when Onix/Siege made the finals? It was like that several seasons.

If all those squads had such a good chance why did Siege win 3 in a row? I missed seasons 4/5 but in season 6 we allowed 16 teams in each league and squads like light/disoblige/sk8 did not have much of a chance of winning ld. It's no different than this season when quicksand/dice/penetrate all had some talent but didn't have much chance of winning ld. During that season we had 2 divisions where every squad would play every other squad in their division once and then play 3 games against squads in the other division. In every league their was lots of lopsided games. Which is to be expected when you have squads that are top 4 in their leagues playing squads that are top 12-16th in their leagues. We could easily allow several more squads in twld and twlj but they will just get crushed and then people will whine about allowing these squads into TWL. This is why the numbers of TWL squads was reduced in the first place.

The point of smaller rosters is to increase the amount of squads...therefore making 6 teams making the playoffs a smaller percentage. That makes regular season more important. There would also be an increased amount of games...

This simply won't happen. The players that won't get on the roster due to the roster cap already know they won't be playing much in TWL and aren't going to form new squads due to the roster cap. Fierce just had a perfect season in TWLD and they only played 9 players in LD with 3 of them only playing in 2 games or less.

So...8/8/12 is too small but 10/10/16 is too much? Okay. What are you proposing then, 9/9/14? Or are you saying we do nothing and let the same broken league continue on?

I'm saying the negative consequences of 8/8/12 or 9/9/14 due to squads not being able to show enough players are too great for those roster limits to be considered. 10/10/16 roster cap is high enough that any chance of creating more squads or increasing parity in the league would be completely nullified. Therefore, the whole idea that strict roster limits would have any positive impact on TWL is false.

[With Ease]

I'm saying the negative consequences of 8/8/12 or 9/9/14 due to squads not being able to show enough players are too great for those roster limits to be considered. 10/10/16 roster cap is high enough that any chance of creating more squads or increasing parity in the league would be completely nullified. Therefore, the whole idea that strict roster limits would have any positive impact on TWL is false.

How is it false? Going through TWLD statistics from this past season, it seems squads used 12-13 different players in LD on average. Cutting off the LD roster at 8 would force 4-5 of those players per squad to switch. The benefit to me seems entirely positive. The option to postpone is meant to help squads that may have problems showing their full line a few weeks...and if needed there could be a potential option to add a player from the LJ or LB roster to LD a couple times per season (same with the other leagues). The amount of times this would be possible could be set at 2 or something, and the players would simply be helping avoid a forfeit and would not be credited with winning LD if the roster of 8 were to win it all.

Basically the point of all this is to spread around talent and attempt to actually win multiple leagues on account of your own actions. Not being able to win all 3 leagues if you're only listed on the LD roster SHOULD appeal to the competitive spirit of players in this game. As a captain I can't tell you how many players I've turned away because they demanded to start multiple leagues when I didn't feel they were good enough, only to see them join another squad and get benched there anyway. If this roster cap and position cap was in place, everyone could see where things stood at the start of the season and spread out accordingly. Too many players in this game brag about the accomplishments of others.

Instead of assuming that nothing will work and being content playing the same 5 squads every year, maybe you should contribute. Although I have no problems with you in game, I have to say people like you are the inherent problem with this game. Every year you join whatever squad you feel has the best chance to win, and I have never seen you try to be "the man" on a squad where you're desperately needed. Instead of joining a potential Lego-like squad and playing all 3 leagues, you choose to join squads similar to Real and bench in leagues I know you're good enough to start in (LB).

As for your comments about Penetrate etc. having no chance to win, I completely disagree. They got 47 kills on Fierce with a depleted roster.

[With Ease]

Good call, but how would postponing the games work? Does that mean one squad would try hard to get their players to come for this week and then the other could decide to call the game off? But aside from that, I can only see postponing work if 2 teams were given time to complete the game on the following week before the next sunday's TWL week
I agree though on limiting rosters

I would suggest setting aside 2 weeks or so at the end of the season for these postponed games to be played. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the postpone would have to be used prior to the Friday before TWL games. This way, the other squad wouldn't have players waste their time showing to a game and would know ahead of time if the match was going to be postponed or not.

Harder, I don't believe Saturday games or weekday games will be a viable option based on past scheduling. Saturday has always been an option for TWL and yet it's almost never chosen. Also, weekday games were tried in TWDT but due to work schedules and such players were constantly missing games. Adding in a few extra weeks for postponed games would make more sense and would lengthen the season. Every year people want TWL started early but then complain it's taking too long. What's the rush to head into offseason? Are you that anxious to see Geio create 5 squads a week?

Also Zeebu, I agree about allowing an inactive slot to replace a player that left the squad, but certain steps should be taken to ensure this isn't abused by players.

[Ricko]

I don't agree with your view that if you're on a squad's LD roster and let's say they win LJ that their LD roster players (with some possibly overlapping) don't get given credit for it....kind of defeats the objective of even making a multi-league squad if half the squad won't even get credit for another league members of their same squad are playing in.

[Burnt]

How is it false? Going through TWLD statistics from this past season, it seems squads used 12-13 different players in LD on average. Cutting off the LD roster at 8 would force 4-5 of those players per squad to switch.

Almost half of those players only played in 1 or 2 games. Take those out of the equation and you have 73 players or 7.3 per squad. The players who only play 1 or 2 games are mostly inactive players/players who usually play other leagues/players not good enough to start on any TWLD squad. They are on those squads for other reasons than playing TWLD and reducing TWLD rosters isn't going to motivate to join other squads in TWD.

Basically the point of all this is to spread around talent and attempt to actually win multiple leagues on account of your own actions. Not being able to win all 3 leagues if you're only listed on the LD roster SHOULD appeal to the competitive spirit of players in this game.

This really makes no sense since there is only a handful of players good enough to start on squads that are good enough to win multiple leagues. Certainly no players that or 9th or lower on a squad's ld or lj depth chart is that good because if they were they'd already be starting.

If this roster cap and position cap was in place, everyone could see where things stood at the start of the season and spread out accordingly. Too many players in this game brag about the accomplishments of others.

People have a pretty good idea already and because these rosters wouldn't be set until after TWL qualifying it would be too late for them to form new squads for TWL anyway.

Instead of assuming that nothing will work and being content playing the same 5 squads every year, maybe you should contribute. Although I have no problems with you in game, I have to say people like you are the inherent problem with this game. Every year you join whatever squad you feel has the best chance to win, and I have never seen you try to be "the man" on a squad where you're desperately needed. Instead of joining a potential Lego-like squad and playing all 3 leagues, you choose to join squads similar to Real and bench in leagues I know you're good enough to start in (LB).

Of course I will join squads that have decent chance to win TWLD since it's my best league. If I'm a good enough to start for a top TWLD squad why would I not do that? That's what pretty much any player would do and nothing will change that. Whether I start in LB is secondary to TWLD when I'm picking the squad I will join and that won't change.

[Money]

pnus

[Ruby]

If all those squads had such a good chance why did Siege win 3 in a row? I missed seasons 4/5 but in season 6 we allowed 16 teams in each league and squads like light/disoblige/sk8 did not have much of a chance of winning ld.

Ya, no chance at all. We were only 30-0 in arguably one of the most competitive seasons in TWL's history. (Siege, Light, Elusive, Onix, Sk8, Disoblige, Pallies)

More on Topic.. I think Light only had like 20 or so on roster, FYI. That was back when the population was 3 or 4 times of that also.

If there would have been postponement in earlier years I know things would have been a little different in some major games. Great Post.
+1 Ease's OP.

[Downfall]

Why do we keep going over the same ideas? Forcing someone one of a squad by making any "roster cap" wont "spread around talent". If a person doesn't start for a squad and that person still doesn't leave that squad (meaning they don't mind benching/ don't really want to play) what makes you think that if you move them out of that squad and they join another squad that this person will gain sudden interest in playing now and will show up?

Stop trying to make artificial competition and let it happen naturally. I will agree there are some loopholes and flaws in the rules, but to say "TWL is a complete joke" is some bs. Maybe it's because thunder has been such an inactive squad in terms of TWD and TWL which makes you think that the rest of the zone is like that, but TWL still had intensity was interesting to watch at times with upsets, a reasonable level of shit talk and I thought this season was pretty good.

Also, the idea about postponing games sounds good.

[RednaZ]

I for one would be very compelled to return if there was a squad with a roster cap of 15 people, competing in all 3 leagues. I don't like to play with 1 dimensional people, and this zone can't afford to have them. Back in the day I'm pretty sure everybody was equally capable in at least 2 leagues (admittedly the combined elim helped a lot in that), and forcing smaller rosters seems to be the only credible idea to force people to play more ships again.

[Heisman]

Rednaz think its about time you retired anyway. Old timer.

[Zeebu]

that would be fun