TWL Changes

[Stayon]

I for one would be very compelled to return if there was a squad with a roster cap of 15 people, competing in all 3 leagues. I don't like to play with 1 dimensional people, and this zone can't afford to have them. Back in the day I'm pretty sure everybody was equally capable in at least 2 leagues (admittedly the combined elim helped a lot in that), and forcing smaller rosters seems to be the only credible idea to force people to play more ships again.

This. Its not just new people that the zone needs but the people that plays in it to actually try other ships as it's a way to increase competition also. I could go on TWD site and easily make a huge list of people who are 1 leaguers who been playing the same ship over the years..and this has nothing to do with talent, or if people are fast or slow learners but more on their attitude to learn something different. Change their attitude, help the league. And this type of encouragement should of been done years ago..but its never too late I guess..

[ogron]

This. Its not just new people that the zone needs but the people that plays in it to actually try other ships as it's a way to increase competition also. I could go on TWD site and easily make a huge list of people who are 1 leaguers who been playing the same ship over the years..and this has nothing to do with talent, or if people are fast or slow learners but more on their attitude to learn something different. Change their attitude, help the league. And this type of encouragement should of been done years ago..but its never too late I guess..

100% agree. if we're going to enact this rule for TWL, we need to do it ASAP -- so people can get into other ships and use the upcoming draft league to get into the habit of multi-leaguing. It's in human nature to be resistant to new ideas but once people will get used to it I think the game will be better off.

We can artificially double the TWL population by having people play multiple ships. EVERYONE can base. You can get anyone to become a decent spider in a month, to the point where they can at least compete and not drag the whole team down and get carried. You're not a great wb? Stick with the team and stray, find a way to make yourself useful, figure it the fuck out. I'm a terrible jav, I managed solid recs in TWLJ years ago just WB suiciding people and finding situations in games in which I could get kills.

In a year, we'll have all these players who are suddenly pretty damn good in all these ships and have a versatility they'll come to like. It's like being forced to learn a language -- at first you hate it, then you realize it's a huge asset and it makes learning OTHER languages easier.

[megaman89]

TWL is in need of serious change to remain competitive and fun for everyone involved. A dwindling population presents several problems with the current league format; problems that in my mind can only be fixed through a severe limitation of the TWL roster.

A while back, TWL had 16 squads in each league with 8 or so squads capable of winning each respective league. Today, in LD/LJ, there are 10 squads with only 2 or 3 capable of winning. Despite this decrease in the amount of squads, roster sizes have remained the same for TWL. Why is this? With the player pool diminishing, it only makes sense to decrease roster sizes to spread out the competition.

Before these roster changes can be implemented however, TWL needs to add the option to postpone games. With smaller rosters squads are going to be relying more on fewer players, and if said players can't show it could potentially be devastating. I am tired of TWL being decided by who isn't able to show on each team. There are many examples of undeserving teams advancing in recent years because a player was missing. I suggest adding the ability to postpone 2 games during regular season, and 1 game during the playoffs for each league. Keep in mind there would be an extended regular season if a smaller roster cap was put into effect. Games would also need to be postponed prior to the Friday before TWL games so that the feature wouldn't be abused. Other zones and leagues have the option to postpone, so why doesn't the 'prestigious' TWL have the same luxury?

As for roster caps...I am in favor of extreme measures. I believe one league squads should be capped at 8 players, 2 league 14 players, and 3 league 20 players. This would reduce the amount of players benching on teams and further spread the talent around. Also note this would punish one league squads and somewhat force them to play in multiple leagues, which would help the zone reach competition seen in earlier leagues. (If you're currently raging because of inactive players, skip to the bottom of this post)

However, I would propose going beyond just an overall roster cap. Each squad would have 8 slots open for LD/LJ and 12 open for LB. Before the TWL season begins, captains would have to select players from their already capped rosters that would be able to play certain leagues. For example, if I was capping a squad I would choose 8 players for wb roster, 8 for jav roster, and 12 for basing roster. These would be the only players allowed to be added in each respective league throughout the entire season, and players would be able to play all 3 which would encourage players to practice and go beyond one shipping. This would also give players time to jump ships if they see they aren't able to play in their desired league, further spreading around the talent. NOTE: Could also add an additional roster spot when playoffs roll around.

While these changes seem extreme, they wouldn't really change around each squad's starting lineup too much. It would root out the benchers and allow them to be part of a squad where the skill gap wasn't as large. In Thunder, Sir Spider was on the TWL roster but was never going to receive any playing time. With this system in place, he could see my intentions before the season starts and see that I didn't place him on the LD roster, giving him sufficient time to join another squad and be part of their 8 man LD roster.

The last major point I'm sure you're all aware of that I haven't mentioned yet is inactive players. I suppose I should mention that I meant for these changes to extend to TWD as well. HOWEVER, so 1 league squads with 8 players on roster don't have a disadvantage when practicing during the season, I propose an INFINITE amount of inactive slots on TWD roster. These inactive slot players would be COMPLETELY unable to play in any TWL games but could log on and play the occasional TWD game with their team.

Let me know your thoughts and opinions please, thanks. Many ideas have been suggested in the past, but it's time we do something about this. As it stands with current rules and format, TWL is a complete joke.

TL;DR
Ability to postpone games
Roster Caps - 8 for 1 league, 14 for 2 leagues, 20 for 3 leagues
Player position caps - 8 for ld, 8 for lj, 12 for lb...players can be part of all 3 to encourage multi-shipping.
Roster cap extends to TWD, but infinite amount of inactive slots available. Inactive slots = can't play TWL.

EDIT: I guess I should also point out in regard to the player position cap...the benefit I meant was the satisfaction of being able to brag about potentially winning all 3 leagues if you were part of all 3. I realize that position caps can punish 3 league players that play together by reducing the amount of one league talent that can be brought in and affecting the squad even more if they can't show, but that's part of the trade-off.

tl;dr version:

I'm pissed I missed the playoffs and if I was there we would have triple crowned

[Draft]

I could go on TWD site and easily make a huge list of people who are 1 leaguers who been playing the same ship over the years

... thought I would do it and jesus FUCK had no idea we were filled with 1 leaguing pieces of shits bro.. basically if your name is down here.. you are talented in only 0-1 league in TW. #nooffense



3 skepsis
4 death row
6 dRose24
8 Endangered
9 Evaden
10 King
11 Max B
12 Nimrook
13 poxy
14 Pressure
15 ProPs
16 RaCka
17 Rub
18 Sprained
19 swimkid
20 Talent
21 temporary
22 Yawn


2 Rule
5 Epinephrine
13 Via
15 Andy Steel
17 Demonic
18 hellkite
19 Mjollnir
20 Trouble

1 Izor
2 cowPope
3 killah
4 Kthx
5 rly_dumb
6 Ward
7 absurd99
8 Acon
9 AtWA
10 declension
11 eazy
12 FST
13 Ghoul
14 Gripe
15 GTA
16 H.M.S. Stargazer
17 Neodymium
18 SouthernGal
19 Spectacular
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21 Vade


2 Cripple
3 Volcom
7 bumpa
8 Century
9 cocaine
11 dsb <ER>
12 GRANDMASTAHS
13 mci
14 Revered
15 riske
16 schope <ER>
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18 Zazu

1 Cres
2 Raazi
3 Tarnish
4 Coroner
5 CrimsonX
6 Geio
7 Guero
8 Kentaro
9 Mission X
10 resurrected
11 Shunpo
12 Sir Spider
13 Duke-
14 eRach
15 Harder
16 Mechanoid
17 Melody
18 Reptile
19 Space Olympics
20 Spyre

1 flared
2 infrared
3 Versa
4 Peru
5 Saving
6 sphinx
7 Unabled
9 Weak
10 Wrath
11 Alokas Nakki
12 BongHits
13 bubble
14 Delectable
15 dour
17 Executed
18 Forsaked
21 NiMeSh
22 RotatingPotato
23 Side Effects
24 SpaceHiker
25 Spiderhate
26 Torcher
27 tower
28 Usoi
29 Vida
30 Vue

1 beam
2 Cross
3 Sphinktor
4 Ardour
5 Bim
6 Lionheart
7 Money
8 Poseidon
9 Rainbow Seeker
11 Ricko
15 baem
16 beng
17 Burg
18 Cuji
19 delta
20 Downfall
21 Fujiwara
22 golden duck
24 idk&idc
25 Mighty
26 oops
27 RyanK
28 siaxis
29 sieni
30 whitebeard
31 Zagis

1 Shayde
2 Vatican Assassin
3 Claushouse
4 glavitik
5 Mattey
6 RENZI
7 AcidBomber
8 Apocalypse WOW!
9 Bacon
10 Diakka
11 Eel
13 Jerome
14 KATC <ER>
15 menelvagor
16 NL>Trigger
17 Omega Red
18 Pavement
19 sarger
20 Selena Gomez
21 SquallFF8
22 Tim

1 Fermata
2 Veloce
3 Zhou
4 Cintra
5 Creature
6 desktop
7 Fit of Rage
8 krage
9 Minotar
10 Solacer
11 Tsumetai
Players
12 AuRA
13 DSin
14 Ekko
15 El Pedo
16 EL_Mariachi
17 Fructose
18 HotKarl4U
19 pinkStar
20 Plenty O`Toole
21 SpookedOne
22 TOOBEAST
23 turmio
24 Wax
25 WingZero


2 cremation
3 LF
4 DF
5 kess
6 Marge
7 menomena
8 Morph
9 Oderus Urungus
10 TABARNAK!!!
11 TJ hazuki
12 bellflowers
13 EvilDeed
14 Fat Mouse
15 Frogsk|n
16 Havok
17 Mango.
18 meddi
19 Mikes
20 Nethila
21 NL>TERMINATOR
22 odb
23 Pascone
24 Remu
25 Rodney
26 skycake
27 Sponger
28 Vehicle
29 WAR
30 wbm


1 hypocrit
3 Chance
5 Heisman
6 Kira_Yamato~
7 Lorko
8 Paradise
9 Rendered
10 rucci
11 adj.
12 Amnesti
13 Beast
14 bugs
15 Calm
16 Coupe
17 Cyclone
18 Ducci
19 Eria
20 Erias
21 Ice>
22 Jurassic
23 Kornflakes
24 leitz
25 Machine of God
27 Ninja
28 Phreek
29 Pillow
30 PitBoss
31 Pro
32 Producer
33 Revolt
34 sludge
35 slum
36 Spirit
37 Sulla
38 TranceTunes
39 V.D.
40 yeh
41 zazerick
42 Zyclon

2 Ra
4 Baffling
5 dak
6 Eric Clapton
7 Flew
8 Johnie <ER>
9 Lies
10 Murder
11 Nine
12 Obi
13 Skilder
14 Statis
16 Common
17 Da_monkk
18 deck
19 Desire
20 Elf
21 Eric is God
22 FLOo
23 Ghetto !$uperstar!
24 Kdak
25 Khai
26 lag killer
27 Lame
28 Legerity
29 Logain
30 Lordy
31 Misled
32 Pakkun
33 PhyRe
34 pseudo
35 Rage
36 Ritual
37 Sale
38 Scarce
39 Shaolin
40 Shin-Ra
41 spaceship
42 Subneo
43 Sudden
44 sulfur
45 the_paul
46 Top
47 Traxx
48 Varsity

[Downfall]

If you're gonna classify all those people as 1-leaguers, you pretty much have to classify yourself as a 1-leaguer (jav)

[Efhat]

As for the basing department goes: I think if you can play more than 1 ship above average like spid/shark or spid/terr etc etc I think that should count as a multi leaguer

[fLaReD]

I know that some of this has already been said but here's my general thoughts on the points that Ease has brought up.

Before these roster changes can be implemented however, TWL needs to add the option to postpone games...I suggest adding the ability to postpone 2 games during regular season, and 1 game during the playoffs for each league...Other zones and leagues have the option to postpone, so why doesn't the 'prestigious' TWL have the same luxury?

I don't really have much to say on this. It's a good idea. The only problem is whether or not it could actually be implemented with current lack of web dev. I'd also like to see scheduling opening for more than just Saturday and Sundays, but it's likely that this would just cause problems as I can't really see many teams being able to agree upon a day and time each week.

As for roster caps...I am in favor of extreme measures. I believe one league squads should be capped at 8 players, 2 league 14 players, and 3 league 20 players. This would reduce the amount of players benching on teams and further spread the talent around.

This is the main thing I have to comment on. Season 15 the roster caps worked pretty well. The only reason I removed them for Season 16 was due the to TWD cap. Off topic, I think the TWD caps should be removed entirely and forever. TWD is a casual league, no sense in limiting it. I'd be supportive of lowering the previous roster caps by 5, meaning 15 players for LD/LJ squads, 20 players for LD+LJ or LB squads, 25 players for LB+LD or LJ squads, and 30 for 3 league squads. The numbers you suggested are much too low in my opinion.

I'm sure this has been brought up before but I'd like to talk about the idea of restricting medals (and names on arena maps) to players who "deserve" them. A general idea would be to have requirements on playtime in order to be eligible for a title. For example, if a player is on a squad that wins one of the leagues, he may only be considered for receiving the title if he played in at least 3 full regular season games and 1 post-season game. The potential problem with this is what defines whether or not a person played in the games. For TWLD/LJ this could be defined as not only being added in 3 games but also obtaining at least 25 kills in the regular season, and at least 10 kills in the post-season. For TWLB it could be defined in terms of minutes played. A total of 45 minutes regular season playtime and 20 minutes post-season playtime. Obviously these numbers are just ideas and would also be dependent on number of games in the season and such, but I think the idea of restricting TWL titles to players who contribute X amount during the season would be more effective than restricting rosters.

The other and probably biggest issue with medal restrictions is the medals that have already been awarded for previous seasons. I personally would be okay with removing previous season medals from players who did not meet the aforementioned conditions, but I'm not sure that it's realistic. A lot of the stats from earlier seasons are inaccurate or even missing entirely. Not to mention the massive amount of rage this would cause. I know that to future league winners it would seem unfair that players were able to bench their way to titles in the past, but I think we need to suck it up and take a look at the big picture if we want to increase the league competition. I really want to hear some comments on this because as I said, I think this idea would prove to be a more effective way of dispersing the talent than implementing such strict roster caps.

However, I would propose going beyond just an overall roster cap. Each squad would have 8 slots open for LD/LJ and 12 open for LB. Before the TWL season begins, captains would have to select players from their already capped rosters that would be able to play certain leagues. For example, if I was capping a squad I would choose 8 players for wb roster, 8 for jav roster, and 12 for basing roster. These would be the only players allowed to be added in each respective league throughout the entire season, and players would be able to play all 3 which would encourage players to practice and go beyond one shipping.

I have to say I disagree with this idea. I just feel like it would cause too many problems when a team is missing their eligible players, not to mention if a team is short-handed for a league but has players for the other leagues online. I know someone might suggest letting players from other leagues play if the eligible players aren't online, but that completely defeats the purpose because players would inevitably just use an alias or sign off if a more desirable line is available.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. I'd love to see some more discussion on these ideas. Thanks for bringing these things up, always good to hear from the public.

[Riverside]

Sorry fLaReD, but if you're gonna use those roster cap #s, then you may as well keep it the way it is. The point of something like this is that BECAUSE it's extreme, it causes change. By only shrinking it by that little, you're only fooling yourself if you think it's going to make any type of impact. I honestly couldn't care less about the medals aspect... the point of caring about something like that is to make things more competitive, and doing something like making them play x amount of minutes won't do anything other than bug captains to add players to meaningless regular season games that are 'easy win games'.

The point of an extreme roster is to spread the talent. So many people are for it, it's obviously the right step, can we not just freaking implement it already?

Also, I'd like you to elaborate on what you mean by 'too low'? Do teams really need more than 8 players in TWLD/TWLJ? Need more than 12-14 guys to base? Think about it. Over half of your roster should be able to play multiple leagues. It'll either force them to consider picking it up, or it'll force them to make their only small 1-league squads (thus having 3-4 more 1-league squads instead of 1 or 2 big ones that we currently have). How many capable players do you need? Sure, hopping happens, people get busy, etc. But that's why teams would be forced to pick their players wisely, and squads increase as a result.

[fLaReD]

Sorry fLaReD, but if you're gonna use those roster cap #s, then you may as well keep it the way it is. The point of something like this is that BECAUSE it's extreme, it causes change. By only shrinking it by that little, you're only fooling yourself if you think it's going to make any type of impact. I honestly couldn't care less about the medals aspect... the point of caring about something like that is to make things more competitive, and doing something like making them play x amount of minutes won't do anything other than bug captains to add players to meaningless regular season games that are 'easy win games'.

The point of an extreme roster is to spread the talent. So many people are for it, it's obviously the right step, can we not just freaking implement it already?

Well Riv the #s are negotiable, but I still think the numbers Ease posted are much too small. Attendance with those numbers will be difficult, even with postponement options. I guess the way I see it is that having strict roster caps will basically lead to captains adding only their starting lineups to their TWL rosters, thus spreading out the players who would consistently be sitting on the bench. Implementing title restrictions would do the exact same thing. Players who know they won't get enough play time to be eligible to receive a title will spread out and create new squads. Saying that people don't care about the titles is not true. Why do people join stacked squads if they won't get any play time? So that they can get a title and their name on the map. What I'm trying to say is that I think strict roster caps and title restrictions will both result in the same thing - spreading out the players. The benefit of not having such strict roster caps is that attendance will not be as much of an issue. I get what you are saying though. Personally I think finding the proper balance between roster and title restrictions is the best way to approach this.

[fLaReD]

Also, I'd like you to elaborate on what you mean by 'too low'? Do teams really need more than 8 players in TWLD/TWLJ? Need more than 12-14 guys to base? Think about it. Over half of your roster should be able to play multiple leagues. It'll either force them to consider picking it up, or it'll force them to make their only small 1-league squads (thus having 3-4 more 1-league squads instead of 1 or 2 big ones that we currently have). How many capable players do you need? Sure, hopping happens, people get busy, etc. But that's why teams would be forced to pick their players wisely, and squads increase as a result.

You're right about the fact that strict roster caps would likely encourage players to expand to other leagues, and after re-reading Ease's post I see he mentioned that as well. I guess I've been overlooking this. To be fair, that strengthens the argument and helps me justify the idea implementing such strict roster caps. Anyway, I have to get back to studying for tonight. Good points being mentioned, I'll check back in tomorrow afternoon and hopefully there will be even more discussion.

[RednaZ]

River basically said this already, but really who gives a shit about medals. My name is on two maps, I didn't even bench for that too happen, but I don't give a rats ass about them. I'd like to think people play TWL to have fun and if there's a chance of winning, that's great, but if you're on a small squad with people you enjoy playing with, you'll have a great time just competing.

The reason those numbers seem low is because we've been using extremely big numbers up until now. Half-assed measures don't get shit done. Either do it big, or don't do it at all. If you think 14 players for 2 leagues isn't enough, you're out of your mind. Recruit 14 people that play in both leagues and you almost have 3 lines for both leagues. Draft's list is a bit exaggerated perhaps, there's definitely 15 or so people on that list that play more than 1 ship but it's still a huge fucking list that should be a hell of a lot smaller.

Also to anybody who said TWL is not a joke right now, 6 out of 10 teams go to the playoffs, yes TWL is a joke right now.

[Supreme]

Im so bad im not even mentioned of being good at 0-1 leagues

[Ricko]

To phizey's list: I didn't really pay much attention to most squads you listed other than rapid, but literally half the players you have listed are more than adequate at either 2 or all 3 leagues. Your opinion isn't good enough as you are so inactive and have been out of the loop for 3+ years.

I prefer the idea of roster limitation than the medal limitation - this season we had guys like desktop come in and play 2-3 ld matches as cover and had we won LD I would have wanted him to receive a medal for his contributions to the squad in practice (twd) but according to your proposed limit he wouldn't have.

There is no point reducing the limit by only 5 spots that really wont change much...reduce it by at least 10 and if by pre-twl next season we have quite a number of half competitive squads competing then we could even stretch out twl to 12-14 squads and remain at a 6 squad playoff system.

[Tiny]

You can not not give medals to people who did not participate in a certain league, but participated in another. Yes, this may be a goal for future twl plans, which is fine and well, but you simply can NOT go back and take medals, for example, people on sweet who never played a minute of game time in twld because they played all season in twlj for you. If you are on the twl roster then you deserve a medal, and if you feel they dont deserve one then you should have axed them.

[Crescent Seal]

I don't think drafts list is accurate either. I've seen a lot of those players participate in other twd leagues. But that being said, they most likely haven't played in TWL. This is something you can't really force. It happens naturally. Wb elim always gets outvoted by jav elim and I see many wbs attempt Jav. I also notice this in Javduel when wbduel dies. I see everyone in .?go base as well so its not like its that big of a problem. My squad Flame consists of all wbs pretty much but we do look for JDs. Bds on the otherhand are tough to get. Another thing that I have noticed is that better players/squads do not accept newb games. The other day glhfgg accepted a JD with us then realized we had a wb line so they told us they didn't have enough and got another JD. This happens quite frequently when players try to play other twd leagues.